The Unofficial Complete REVISITED SAGA Ideas and Random Discussion Thread — Page 7

mrbenja0618 said:

Well, I think it could be done in a film. However, I'm not completely convinced it can't be done without remaking the films entirely. Which is what I would really want. But that won't happen until George is wearing pearly-white flannel.

I agree, it could have been done.  I spent half my childhood imagining Episodes 1-3, and in all my day dreaming I always knew there could be away to keep the Vader/Yoda reveal intact.

Now can the PTs be edited and augmented in such a way that these precious secrets could remain intact?  No, not without filming new footage...which is what Ady has suggested that he'll do.  I would love to see his proposed additional story beats for these new sequences/characters.  That man is a genius, and I'm sure he'll be able to accomplish the impossible.

But on the other hand, as someone said earlier, it would almost be easier to film entirely NEW films rather than retrofitting George's PT to fit with the OT.  And hey, you KNOW someone is going to try and attempt this some day!

Brimley said:

Yes, the prequels are a strange case.  Clearly someone must have mentioned to George that he was ruining two key reveals in ESB while scripting them. Obviously his objective was to deliver "money shots" (ie- Yoda kicking butt, Anakin strapping on the big black mask).  Done, case closed.

And I understand DominicCobb and Jaitea's points about how the PT exists to be played AFTER viewing the OT.  When I'm blessed to have children one day, I assume I'll show them the OT before the PT. 

However, that's a moot point in this discussion.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the basic conceit of this thread/project to alter the PT so that it better fits in with the cultural landmark that is the OT?  Preserving the sanctity of the original narrative above all?

My reason for wanting the PT to come afterwards is, no matter what you do, if you put the PT first, you're ruining the sanctity of the original narrative. If you watch 4 then 5, you get all the surprises. But if you watch 1-2-3-4-5, then, even if you have preserved the twist that Anakin is Vader, the twist is still ruined. Because then the twist is just "Anakin is still alive and he's this guy who's been in the past two movies" as opposed to (if you don't watch the PT first) "Vader is Luke's father which means that Luke's father turned to the dark side and Obi Wan was lying and his father isn't really dead and OH MY GOD!" 

You get what I mean?

Anyways the reason I make this argument is not because I don't believe there should ever be a version of the PT that preserves the secret. On the contrary I think it would be interesting to watch. But it could never be my definitive. And I really want Revisited to be my definitive. So I guess what I'm hoping for is that Ady will change his mind, or at least that we'll get two different versions of Episode III. 

Actually, before the PT existed I always assumed (and very much enjoyed the thought) that they'd preserve the father reveal when they DID get around to making them. Its one of the more iconic film twists in cinematic history and I thought they'd treat it with a little more respect....but instead they disregarded it completely (not the ONLY thing GL disregarded from the OT when making the new films...but I digress). My definitive version (you know, the one in my head....the one thats perfect for me and only me) had Anakin's fate left much more murky and unresolved....so I'm rather pleased that this is the road Ady wishes to go down with his edits.

That is an excellent point and one I hadn't thought of or heard mention. Even if you preserve the surprise, its not the SAME surprise.

It was once holy crap, evil Darth Vader is Luke's Father.

Now its, Hey Anakin is still alive and HE is evil Darth Vader.

Those are very different things. And to be honest, probably a very good reason for why Lucas chose not to do that.

I think the Anakin's story in the prequels should have been more like this:

Episode one: Perhaps Obi-Wan has a pupil who was a teenager, he would be difficult and problematic showing signs of the Dark Side, Palpatine would be a political leader rising in the Galactic Senate, Anakin would be Obi-Wan's closest aid and buddy...he would be a Jedi but be wise-cracking and humorous (alike Solo). Anakin and 'Ben', as Anakin calls him save each other's lives many times during the Clone Wars, which runs though this film & the next.

Episode two: Obi-Wan's pupil would be an adult and a Jedi, but his decisions and manor would be questionable he is at odds with his Master, Anakin would be the only Jedi who could calm situations and connect with the young Jedi.

The pupil would have some bonding with Palpatine and the audience would have no confusion where his destiny lies.

Jedi begin to get picked off one by one by a masked Sith dressed in Black and soon everyone knows the name of the Sith Assasin...Darth Vader

Episode Three: Palpatine has grown to the height of Supreme Chancellor and is untouchable, he has surrounded himself with undesirables It become apparent the has a henchman...Vader

Vader & Anakin find themselves in a duel, Vader unmasks to reveil Obi-Wans apprentice, which they already suspected, we don't see the outcome of the battle but soon after we do see Vader in the presence of Palpatine in a 'everything is progressing as I have forseen'

By the end of the movie Vader & Obi-Wan duel and Vader is defeated, badly maimed etc, etc....needs life support

......now the only things that conflicts is the kids....and Ben's conversation with Vader on the Death Star

J

a problem i have with introducing a second apprentice character into the PT, is that people may then think vader is the father, not anakin.

if it could be made to look like mace turns to the dark side and becomes vader, then at least he is clearly NOT luke's father.

BEN : Anakin was a good friend.

LUKE : I accept the truth you were once Anakin Skywalker, my father.

It's all made clear in the end.

Beside do we even need to name this pupil in the PT?

When Ben talks about a former pupil of his that turns to evil, the assumption will be made by some that he is talking about the guy who turned to evil in the PT. Therefore he must have been called Anakin (sit on the Skywalker bit for a few films) back then and adopted the title of Darth Vader.

Therefore he was the one who betrayed and murdered Luke's father, Sir Skywalker (the guy who isn't Anakin).

If you have to give the other guy a name, why not call him Luke?

That way people will assume Luke Skywalker is named after his father and not after the friend of his father who is later betrayed and murdered by him.

Bingowings said:

If you have to give the other guy a name, why not call him Luke?

That way people will assume Luke Skywalker is named after his father and not after the friend of his father who is later betrayed and murdered by him.

GENIUS!

Evil genius, if you please.

Brimley said:

Bingowings said:

If you have to give the other guy a name, why not call him Luke?

That way people will assume Luke Skywalker is named after his father and not after the friend of his father who is later betrayed and murdered by him.

GENIUS!

No way this works. Im sorry. It sounds interesting actually, but no way it actually makes that a shock.  I say again. Ask yourself, if YOU would be fooled. Not some hypothetical first timer. Would YOU see this, and then see A New Hope and not say Oh, I see where this is going.

Bingowings said:

BEN : Anakin was a good friend.

LUKE : I accept the truth you were once Anakin Skywalker, my father.

It's all made clear in the end.

Beside do we even need to name this pupil in the PT?

When Ben talks about a former pupil of his that turns to evil, the assumption will be made by some that he is talking about the guy who turned to evil in the PT. Therefore he must have been called Anakin (sit on the Skywalker bit for a few films) back then and adopted the title of Darth Vader.

Therefore he was the one who betrayed and murdered Luke's father, Sir Skywalker (the guy who isn't Anakin).

If you have to give the other guy a name, why not call him Luke?

That way people will assume Luke Skywalker is named after his father and not after the friend of his father who is later betrayed and murdered by him.

This would work IF the films were re-shot. Pretty sure it couldn't happen with the footage/resources available.

princethomas said:

Brimley said:

Bingowings said:

If you have to give the other guy a name, why not call him Luke?

That way people will assume Luke Skywalker is named after his father and not after the friend of his father who is later betrayed and murdered by him.

GENIUS!

No way this works. Im sorry. It sounds interesting actually, but no way it actually makes that a shock.  I say again. Ask yourself, if YOU would be fooled. Not some hypothetical first timer. Would YOU see this, and then see A New Hope and not say Oh, I see where this is going.

I saw ESB in 1980.

The only way I can contemplate changes like this is through the filter of an hypothetical first timer.

I might still have seen through it because I'm one of those annoying guys who gets the identity of the killer five minutes into almost any whodunnit but there would be enough ambiguity to confuse enough of those hypotheticals in an interesting way and that's the best you can aim for.

princethomas said:

Brimley said:

Bingowings said:

If you have to give the other guy a name, why not call him Luke?

That way people will assume Luke Skywalker is named after his father and not after the friend of his father who is later betrayed and murdered by him.

GENIUS!

No way this works. Im sorry. It sounds interesting actually, but no way it actually makes that a shock.  I say again. Ask yourself, if YOU would be fooled. Not some hypothetical first timer. Would YOU see this, and then see A New Hope and not say Oh, I see where this is going.

No, and that's why I hate this whole "preserve the secret" thing, because none of the suggestions are good. None of them. Not a single one. 

Look! am I a genius or what?

I only ask as I have jimjams to personalise.

This is the unofficial REVISITED SAGA thread so at the end of the day team Adywan will decide.

But of all the groups and individuals doing PT edits the only one that stands a chance of attempting this is in my lifetime is PT:R.

Now they may decide not to go down that road in the end but it would be a shame to not have just one attempt considering there are quite a few good PT projects up and running at the moment for you other guys to watch.

We really don't need a thread along the lines of SAVE LANDO!!!!, now do we or do we?

Bingowings said:

 

This is the unofficial REVISITED SAGA thread so at the end of the day team Adywan will decide.

 Ady HAS decided.

Good for him.

Still a terrible idea, IMHO, but if he can pull it off more power to him.

^this

Also, just going point something out: there's no point in preserving the secret if you're going to use Battle of the Heroes in ANH.

DominicCobb said:

Also, just going point something out: there's no point in preserving the secret if you're going to use Battle of the Heroes in ANH.

Team Adywan are removing the PT music from AR:SE last time I checked.

But the the "Here They Come" strike on the soundtrack of every current version of Return Of The Jedi would indicate a swarm of TIE fighters about to shoot up Jabba's sail barge going by your line of reasoning (I'd remove that too).

Bingowings said:

DominicCobb said:

Also, just going point something out: there's no point in preserving the secret if you're going to use Battle of the Heroes in ANH.

Team Adywan are removing the PT music from AR:SE last time I checked.

But the the "Here They Come" strike on the soundtrack of every current version of Return Of The Jedi would indicate a swarm of TIE fighters about to shoot up Jabba's sail barge going by your line of reasoning (I'd remove that too).

I mean, I get that you're making a joke, but it would be extremely obvious that Vader is Anakin if you were to use the same music in the Vader v. Kenobi and Anakin v. Kenobi duels. 

Also, glad to hear it is being removed from ANH. It always felt out of place to me, and was my only real criticism of SW:R.

Not keen on the R2 rocket booster idea when he falls off the barge, but I think the magnet picking the droids up by the body as they LIE on the sand would be better....perhaps 3P0 just sitting up only to get whipped up by the magnet

J

I suggested the rocket thing back here for two reasons, as already mentioned it removes the stupid protoPT slapstick moment and the other reason is it establishes these things exist.

It makes sense that Artoo would have them he is an astrodroid.

VinCENT in The Black Hole had them for much the same reason and that was one aspect of that robot that didn't embarrass me.

He wouldn't use them at any other point in the OT (even on Dagobah because a swamp is usually full of explosive gas, the ignition of which wouldn't have done himself, the ship or his master any good).

So as it is the only part of the OT where they make sense and would actually improve a scene, probably.

The design exists and it allows them to be used in the PT without the crappy EU justification for why he doesn't use them in the OT.

Where is the magnet on the skiff anyhoo?

Why is it there?

How does it rapidly vanish in the next shot?

It just makes more sense to me.