Complete Comparison of Special Edition Visual Changes — Page 43

Or, right, I missed that.

Yes, this one is not a case of DNR, it's identical in the DNR-free Technidisc transfer, the first row of ships are already in the sky for the first frame in the JSC and Grande whereas they are still barely over the trees in the Technidisc and GOUT, the disappearance of the ships a few frames later in the latter seems to just be a glitch in the composite. (just one single frame were they're gone and then they reappears)

bilditup1 said:

msycamore said:

...and for some reason they also removed Lord from Darth Vader.

The answer to this can be found in zombie's book.

Yeah, I guess the name Darth being retconned into a title could be the reason for it. Like Captain Lieutenant Vader... ;) talk about half-assed, the retcon doesn't work and doesn't make sense in the film anyway.

msycamore said:

bilditup1 said:

msycamore said:

...and for some reason they also removed Lord from Darth Vader.

The answer to this can be found in zombie's book.

Yeah, I guess the name Darth being retconned into a title could be the reason for it. Like Captain Lieutenant Vader... ;) talk about half-assed, the retcon doesn't work and doesn't make sense in the film anyway.

Yes! That's what happens when you're making these films on the seat of your pants, without any real grand plan :) I'm reminded of the 'Raiders' story conference...

These three SE-wipes were replaced by new ones for the 2004 DVD transfer.

synced up to your comparisons.

msycamore said:

These three SE-wipes were replaced by new ones for the 2004 DVD transfer.

Will this never end?

bilditup1 said:

msycamore said:

These three SE-wipes were replaced by new ones for the 2004 DVD transfer.

Will this never end?

Well, it's kinda obvious they had to be replaced when the shots they wipe to/from were replaced, so it's not really new info, just missing from the list

Harmy said:

Well, it's kinda obvious they had to be replaced when the shots they wipe to/from were replaced, so it's not really new info, just missing from the list

Right - I was referring to the cataloguing, even if it's for something like this which is implicit because the shots they cut to/from have been redone. The level of dedication here is just amazing

Oh, I agree 100%.

Ok what I described on the last page as an anomaly on the planet in the composite in the ships taking off sequence appears to actually be a layer of clouds added optically over and around the planet which is absent on the GOUT and Technidisc composite.

These JSC transfer screenshots is not in that good quality and have some clipping of the reds, so I'm not sure how visible it is.

first frame:

in the fourth frame a layer of clouds appear around and over the planet:

pretty nice and subtle effect which adds to the scene I think, it seems they had a lot of trouble with this sequence as the other version have an optical glitch on the ships whereas this one have the glitch with the clouds missing for the first few frames.

Edit:

So far I've discovered that this version of the effect shot is seen in:

• 16mm English (PuggoGrande)
• pre-ANH widescreen bootleg (mthr)
• pre-ANH bootleg 'PS77-78?' (AntcuFaalb)
• NTSC home video versions '82 - '92

The other version is seen in:

• SWE (Technidisc)
• DC/FACES/GOUT
• Negative 1's 35mm print

Having just checked DJ's GOUT V3 against PuggoGrande...

Woah. I really like how the clouds look. But I have no idea why they're only in some versions.

timdiggerm said:

But I have no idea why they're only in some versions.

Good question, the sources I've checked confirms that the version with the composited clouds was on '77 prints with the rare credits roll. So I suppose the composite without clouds was added to prints later down the road.

msycamore said:

These three SE-wipes were replaced by new ones for the 2004 DVD transfer.

synced up to your comparisons.

  Those are in fact the 1997 VHS.  

Those are in fact definitely not VHS. I'd be willing to bet they are from cable broadcast. Most likely the Reivax version.

^ Yeah, digital broadcast it is. :)

GOUT vs. Puggo Strikes Back

the differences in how these holograms appears in certain transfers still baffles me. Here the thinner scanlines in the 16mm match the '97 and '04 transfers.

Btw, can someone who have access to the other bootlegs of Star Wars out there check which version of the ships taking off sequence that is present in those transfers, Catnap and Starkiller etc. None, you seem to have a vast library, I'm curious.

That's fairly simple. Check this out:

Harmy said:

That's fairly simple. Check this out:

Nice demonstration, Harmy. So, none was entirely correct about this then. Thanks for solving this little mystery for me.

No problem :-) I noticed this when I was  editing and I had the HD video scaled down in a small window. Too bad it still doesn't satisfactorily explain the vertical vs. horizontal issue.

Harmy said:

No problem :-) I noticed this when I was  editing and I had the HD video scaled down in a small window. Too bad it still doesn't satisfactorily explain the vertical vs. horizontal issue.

Well, if we try to make a breakdown of this.

In Star Wars, the original composite of the Leia hologram appear with thick horizontal lines in early letterbox transfers but not in any pan & scan transfer I've checked, clearly the issue of what you recently demonstrated. The composite have thin vertical scanlines that are hard to notice in the various low-res transfers.

In ESB; we have a similar thing with the hologram of the officers, where the pre-GOUT transfers displayed horizontal lines, but again, it should in fact just be vertical ones, oddly enough GOUT didn't create these "fake" horizontal lines this time.

The Emperor hologram seems to be the only one with thicker horizontal scanlines, they also appear on pan & scan video, '97 broadcast, Puggo's 16mm, 35mm references etc.

In Jedi, the hologram of Luke had very thick horizontal lines in GOUT but not in the '97 digital broadcast, must also be a case of what you just demonstrated. I'm just going on 005's comparison pics in this case.

The dotpattern on Vader's communication-screen, and the binocular shot in ESB just gave the illusion of having just horizontal lines in some early transfers, no mystery there. I think you just explained the issue or am I missing something?

The way I understand it, the only hologram with horizontal lines is the Emperor, all others have vertical ones. Except that Vader in the recent example of ours that seem to have very thin horizontals, but do they appear in the Blu-ray or film prints as well?

Thanks to none and mallwalker, we can now add another print to the list of transfers containing the cloudy composite. You cannot see the ships due to the fuzzy quality but once you know exactly what to look for you cannot miss it.

Catnap and LD

Along with the NTSC '80's home video releases, this makes the Catnap the 2nd version with the cloudy composite combined with the more common credit roll, so this doesn't seem to have any connection with the revised credit roll. For a time I thought that could've been a possibility even though it appeared in the early video transfers.

^ the above statement is just me talking crap, the Catnap bootleg contains the rare credit roll.

With this extremely subtle and minor difference you have to wonder why they even bothered and what the heck else they thought was worthy of a correction. They surely couldn't have just bothered replacing one single composite when making new prints? And when was it done? Haven't checked starkiller boot yet.

Sorry that I still keep talking about this sequence, but it fascinates me. ;) Here's the two versions of this shot for an easy comparison:

X-Wing takeoff: http://www.sendspace.com/file/p1g9to

X-Wing takeoff 2: http://www.sendspace.com/file/c0u4f3

I'm leaning towards the cloudless composite being another '81 re-release modification, as so far every '77 version contains the cloudy composite, if this is the case it also reinforces the theory that the two different credit rolls existed already in '77. So, why did they bother re-composite this shot? Well, I think it might be down to the first few frames missing the clouds, in high resolution on a big screen, the optical clouds suddenly appearing on the fourth frame might be quite noticable and distracting, especially when you are the filmmaker. When I now have pointed it out I may have ruined it for some of you. ;) But take a look at the clips and compare for yourself.

Now, why did the '77 shot reappear on the NTSC '80's home-video master? I guess it just slipped by being such a minor difference, the source of that video master is still a little mystery though as it doesn't contain the print damage on the blockade runner like the release prints did. Would be interesting to know which composite is included on the various PAL video releases.

Sorry, to disappoint you but the IB Print, which is definitely from '77 has the cloudless version.

Harmy said:

Sorry, to disappoint you but the IB Print, which is definitely from '77 has the cloudless version.

Not disappointed, just surprised. :) Thanks for shooting down my theory. Interesting... do you happen to know which credit roll is on that IB print?

The more common one. The same as on the GOUT.

BTW. 005, you may wanna redo the links in the first post, because since picasa is now G+, the links no longer work.

The links now are SW:

https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/102542760950977079734/albums/5514974191245813441

ESB:

https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/102542760950977079734/albums/5525747538664147553

ROTJ:

https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/102542760950977079734/albums/5528361230751063825