Doctor M said:
No. It is not good.
While the buildings have cleaner edges, the fine detail of the shot suffers.
Windows in the buildings are more blurred and the speeder and its occupants are less distinct.
Since this is upscaling to HD, sacrificing detail seems like a bad idea.
So you'd rather have a severely-blurry upscaled image than an upscaled image with less fine detail?
A picture is worth a thousand words. Post 102 is worth more.
I’m late to the party, but I think this is the best song. Enjoy!
—Teams Jetrell Fo 1, Jetrell Fo 2, and Jetrell Fo 3
AntcuFaalb said:
So you'd rather have a severely-blurry upscaled image than an upscaled image with less fine detail?
I think he was just worried we'd sacrifice what's left of the grain in the luma, and some resolution, to get it cleaner.
I'm very careful when I do these things, just like with the frame cleanup.
You_Too said:
AntcuFaalb said:
So you'd rather have a severely-blurry upscaled image than an upscaled image with less fine detail?
I think he was just worried we'd sacrifice what's left of the grain in the luma, and some resolution, to get it cleaner.
I'm very careful when I do these things, just like with the frame cleanup.
Oh, I see. If you'd like, I can keep ~20% of GOUT's luma when I do the merge for the samples. The blurring doesn't start to show up until 25-30%.
Edit: Also, what's the consensus on the grain in GOUT? It looks artificial to me. Take a look at the grain patterns on the DEATH STAR conference table in the scene with the line: "Until this battle station is fully operational we are vulnerable." As Dr. Hannibal Lecter would say, it looks desperately random.
A picture is worth a thousand words. Post 102 is worth more.
I’m late to the party, but I think this is the best song. Enjoy!
—Teams Jetrell Fo 1, Jetrell Fo 2, and Jetrell Fo 3
Don't. I'll try that myself when experimenting a bit on the files.
And it's ok if we talk about this over pm. :)
I'll present the result here later anyway.
You_Too said:
Don't. I'll try that myself when experimenting a bit on the files.
And it's ok if we talk about this over pm. :)
I'll present the result here later anyway.
OK, sounds good.
Did you see my edit?
A picture is worth a thousand words. Post 102 is worth more.
I’m late to the party, but I think this is the best song. Enjoy!
—Teams Jetrell Fo 1, Jetrell Fo 2, and Jetrell Fo 3
I also think the grain in the GOUT looks a bit artificial. Could've been added after their DVNR pass maybe? But artificial or not, detail preservation is the key!
AntcuFaalb said:
Doctor M said:
No. It is not good.
While the buildings have cleaner edges, the fine detail of the shot suffers.
Windows in the buildings are more blurred and the speeder and its occupants are less distinct.
Since this is upscaling to HD, sacrificing detail seems like a bad idea.
So you'd rather have a severely-blurry upscaled image than an upscaled image with less fine detail?
That was a ridiculous comment.
I said that you are trading one blurring for another. The edges of the buildings are stabilized, but the details of the building, windows and the speeder are blurred. C3PO is pretty much a gold blob.
Dr. M
That was a ridiculous comment.
It was a question, not a comment, but you're right in that it was ridiculous to ask.
I said that you are trading one blurring for another. The edges of the buildings are stabilized, but the details of the building, windows and the speeder are blurred. C3PO is pretty much a gold blob.
I don't want to derail this thread anymore than I already have. If you'd like to continue discussing the finer points of this 139 frame shot, I'll gladly follow you to the more appropriate thread. You first!
A picture is worth a thousand words. Post 102 is worth more.
I’m late to the party, but I think this is the best song. Enjoy!
—Teams Jetrell Fo 1, Jetrell Fo 2, and Jetrell Fo 3
Ok there's been some experimenting now with the speeder scene.
AntcuFaalb gave me samples of the GOUT's chroma combined with the luma of some different LD releases and Moth3r's capture of the French THX LD was the one we both thought looked the best and also looked the most like the original.
Right now I'm leaning against keeping the GOUT as the source of this shot. Simply because the GOUT is sharper and has more detail preserved.
Here's the last frame of the sequence, and if you look closely you can clearly see how much more detail the GOUT has. (GOUT first, Moth3r's second)
Now the thing is that the GOUT does of course have that awful smearing:
There seems to be some slight smearing in the LD version as well, but not nearly as much.
I still think I can live with the smearing of the GOUT just for the sake of preserving the detail.
Tell me what you guys think.
I'll soon post a link to the sequences as video, so you can watch and compare.
EDIT: Here are the clips.
You and Doctor M are right. (My apologies to Doctor M.)
Can you get away with replacing the worst sub-sequence of the shot?
(Because the LD looks better in the second snapshot, but the GOUT looks better in the first.)
A picture is worth a thousand words. Post 102 is worth more.
I’m late to the party, but I think this is the best song. Enjoy!
—Teams Jetrell Fo 1, Jetrell Fo 2, and Jetrell Fo 3
I think Moth3r source is better.
AntcuFaalb said:
Can you get away with replacing the worst sub-sequence of the shot?
(Because the LD looks better in the second snapshot, but the GOUT looks better in the first.)
The problem is that Moth3r's version is more cropped than the GOUT.
If it had been a perfect match, I could've layered the LD under the GOUT in photoshop and erased the smeared parts of that guy walking by, but because of the cropping, when he enters the picture and walks out of the picture, there is no information to use since it's not there!
And I don't want to crop the GOUT even more, to make it match, because that's just stupid to remove parts of the picture.
I've checked the 4-eyed trooper part too, and it's the same there, except the problem is at the bottom of the image. They're all more cropped than the GOUT.
I think we'll have to live with the smearing, and hope for the 35mm versions being the GOUT's replacement in the future.
By the way: Also remember that when in motion, you don't notice the smearing as much as when looking at the stills.
You_Too said:
There seems to be some slight smearing in the LD version as well, but not nearly as much.
I still think I can live with the smearing of the GOUT just for the sake of preserving the detail.
Tell me what you guys think.
I think just sticking with the GOUT looks far better, and that the smearing is far, far less noticeable than people make it out to be. I also think, though, that you have the best handle on this project, so you should go with what you think is best.
May the Force be with you.
I vote for the GOUT too. I would rather have a bit of smearing than a cropped picture.
The only thing that really bugs me about the GOUT in that shot is the guys missing legs.
I love everybody. Lets all smoke some reefer and chill. Hug and kisses for everybody.
You_Too said:
Ok there's been some experimenting now with the speeder scene.
AntcuFaalb gave me samples of the GOUT's chroma combined with the luma of some different LD releases and Moth3r's capture of the French THX LD was the one we both thought looked the best and also looked the most like the original.
Right now I'm leaning against keeping the GOUT as the source of this shot. Simply because the GOUT is sharper and has more detail preserved.
Here's the last frame of the sequence, and if you look closely you can clearly see how much more detail the GOUT has. (GOUT first, Moth3r's second)
Now the thing is that the GOUT does of course have that awful smearing:
There seems to be some slight smearing in the LD version as well, but not nearly as much.
I still think I can live with the smearing of the GOUT just for the sake of preserving the detail.
Tell me what you guys think.
I'll soon post a link to the sequences as video, so you can watch and compare.
EDIT: Here are the clips.
Can't you just cut and pasted or Photoshop it. so the guy will have his legs.
One day we will have properly restored versions of the Original Unaltered Trilogy (OUT); or 1977, 1980, 1983 Theatrical released versions (Like 4K77,4K80 and 4K83); including Prequels. So that future generations can enjoy these historic films that changed cinema forever.
Yoda: Try not, do or do not, there is no try.
pat man said:
Can't you just cut and pasted or Photoshop it. so the guy will have his legs.
That's what I explained in my last post, why I can't. Because Moth3r's LD is cropped more, there's nowhere to get that information when the guy enters the picture and walks away.
If I'd use Moth3r's LD to fix his legs, he still won't have any legs when he's at the edges of the screen.
O sorry.
One day we will have properly restored versions of the Original Unaltered Trilogy (OUT); or 1977, 1980, 1983 Theatrical released versions (Like 4K77,4K80 and 4K83); including Prequels. So that future generations can enjoy these historic films that changed cinema forever.
Yoda: Try not, do or do not, there is no try.
The Empire has droids that can fix that.
TV's Frink said:
The Empire has droids that can fix that.
No thanks. At least if "The Empire" is Lucasfilm and "droids" is CGI. :)
This thread was heading for page 3, sorry but I couldn't let that happen.
I have no questions for you_too or DJ.
I love everybody. Lets all smoke some reefer and chill. Hug and kisses for everybody.
vbangle said:
This thread was heading for page 3, sorry but I couldn't let that happen.
I have no questions for you_too or DJ.
Haha don't worry! There will be updates soon and the thread will be moving up. :)
vbangle said:
This thread was heading for page 3, sorry but I couldn't let that happen.
I have no questions for you_too or DJ.
HAHA! I almost did the exact same thing last night. I nearly had a heart attack when I saw how far down this thread had gone. And I'm glad to hear it U2! I look forward to said updates.
May the Force be with you.
Hey guys, I know nothing about the technical side of these preservation efforts, but I love following threads like this because of the devotion that is clearly evident amongst all of you.
One question I have- why is there such awful smearing in this speeder shot? I mean, it looks like it's so much worse than other shots in the GOUT. Why is this shot in particular so bad?