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Post #592572

Author
Darth Bizarro
Parent topic
The Clone Wars: Season V
Link to post in topic
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/592572/action/topic#592572
Date created
29-Aug-2012, 11:17 PM

danaan said:

 

Darth Bizarro said:


How exactly does fixing the flaws make Star Wars as a whole worse?  And even if they were fixes for the worse, ala Greedo, I would hardly call that proof.

1.  He had no character whatsoever in TPM, how does bringing him back and giving him an actual identity make things worse.  Furthermore, he wasn't resurrected, he never died to start with.


So, this is what contemporary Star Wars has come to: a villain cut in half is no longer counted as "obviously dead". That's absurd, and sad.

Darth Bizarro said:


2.  How does introducing a secondary set of villains prove that they should have been in the movies.  That's like saying that having the Black Sun appear as villains in Shadows of the Empire proves that they should have been in Empire Strikes Back.


The whole "Boba Fett is super-important and the First Clone" is built on catering to fans who can't get enough of Boba Fett because his armour is so kewl. That's an exercise in superficiality. Boba Fett as a Mandalorian veteran, one of many, where his armour is not tailormade, but an actual uniform, is much more appealing for so many reasons. I.e. AOTC is flawed in so many ways. This is just one of them, and bringing in Mandalorians in the show is done because AOTC is flawed.

Darth Bizarro said:


3.  First, the idea of whether the Emperor should or should not have a light-saber is entirely a mater of opinion, not forgone fact (same thing with Yoda BTW).  But even if that weren't up for debate, how exactly is the Emperor going to defend himself against two attackers simultaneously both of whom are wielding double bladed lightsabers with only one lightsaber.  He needs two so he can block two simultaneous attacks.


No, on at least one level it's not just a matter of opinion. Yoda clearly states: "judge me by my size, do you?" This is of tremendous significance for the whole meta-physics of the Force. The master Force user has moved beyond the physical, transcended it. Thus, the lightsaber is utterly redundant. Those who are focused on shiny neon-swords over this understanding clearly do not comprehend what made Star Wars great in the first place.

As a note - the whole "lightsabers have been proven to deflect Force lightning" is a flawed argument on two accounts: 1) it rests on the user counting the PT as canon, which OOT-purists do not, for good reason, and 2) it's not like Force Lightning was ever supposed to be a highly effective offensive weapon. If the Emperor wanted to just kill Luke quickly he could have just snapped his neck, or crushed his heart with the telekinetic abilities of the Force - it would have been over in a split second, and is arguably the remedy against two assailants. The Lightning was used as a torture device.

Darth Bizarro said:


4.  Having Anakin become angry slowly as the show progresses helps make his fall to the dark side more believable than simply going all at once.  Anakin has had moments where he's dipped a little close to the dark side throughout the series and he always bounces back.  It's called foreshadowing.  BTW, Luke did the exact same thing in Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi, getting angry at Yoda, Ben, Vader, the Emperor.  And he didn't fall to the dark side.  You could also argue that Obi-wan walked dangerously close to the dark side when he lashed out at Maul, or what about Mace Windu prepared to strike down a disarmed Palpatine.  There's a big difference between having a moment where you loose control of your emotions and sitting around constantly brooding.  The Jedi teach to let go of your anger, not suppress it.  You will get angry, but as a Jedi you need to be able to let it go.  You can't make an accurate distinction about whether or not the Jedi should have been able to see Anakin's fall to the dark side when you're looking at it through the goggles of hindsight.  It always seems so obvious after the fact, doesn't it, but I've never seen one of my friends or coworkers in a moment of frustration and immediately think to myself, wow, that guy is probably going to come in tomorrow and decapitate a bunch of children.  


I know what "foreshadowing" is. I also recognize poor usage of that storytelling device when I see it. We're talking about Anakin here, y'know, the guy who genocidally slaughtered an entire village, men, women and children, in murderous rage. It's bad enough that the Jedi didn't put in solitary confinment and intense therapy straight after that incident, but now we're supposed to believe that he can have recurring lapses into the Dark Side for *years* without anyone reacting at all? Man, those Jedi are incompetent eedjits in this narrative!

 

1.  So I will first respond to the implosibility of the Darth Maul thing with simply a photograph.  

http://www.mathewingram.com/work/wp-content/uploads/halfman2_450x400.jpg 

2.  Your entire argument here is circular and proves no point whatsoever so I won't even bother restating my original point again.

3.  Even if you completely discount the prequels from canon and go with the original trilogy on it's own, Obi-wan flat out states that Yoda trained him as a Jedi.  And Obi-wan says that a lightsaber is the weapon of a Jedi.  The Emperor says the same thing in Return of the Jedi.  So who exactly taught him to use the thing.  Based on the implications given to us in the OT, Yoda probably did.  You act like Yoda made some strong case in the movie about Jedi not using lightsabers when all he did was try to make a point that there was more to being a Jedi than just fighting.  So why exactly would it be acceptable to assume that Yoda would condone and even train a Jedi to use a lightsaber, and yet somehow completely ridiculous that he might use one himself.  That doesn't make any sense.  So yes, it is just a matter of opinion.  

Also, Mr. Purist.  We aren't talking about the original trilogy here.  We're talking about the Clone Wars, an off shoot from the Prequels.  So you can't try to make a point about how something in the Clone Wars shouldn't be, and then turn around and say that the prequels don't count because you don't consider them canon.  I'm sorry, but the second you start talking about the Clone Wars, you are officially outside the safety of the purist zone. 

4.  Luke blows up the Death Star, a space station filled with countless officers and enlisted men, none of which are necessarily the next Emperor or Vader and many of whom were likely drafted and he gets a medal.  Or what about all the people on Jabba's sail barge that he murdered when he blew the thing up.  Jabba was dead, all the guards who were attacking him had been taken out already.  What exactly did Luke have to gain by blowing up the sail barge which was at that point probably only filled with an bunch of drunks hanging out to watch the show, some servants, many of whom were likely enslaved, and the band members.  All the guys who where an actual threat to them were defeated already, so why blow it up?  Yet Anakin kills a village full of savage murderers who shoot at passerbys with riffles just for the lulz apparently, raid homesteads, pillage, capture, and torture people, and it's a one way ticket to the dark side.