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Plot Point Clarification---Please (re ESB)

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 (Edited)

Ok, I’m sure that this is going to be some conjecture, but there has always been something that has bugged me.

In the opening script crawl for Empire, it states that Vader is obsessed with finding young Skywalker. Why? What happened between episodes IV and V that suddenly Vader is obsessed with finding Luke? This has never really been explained. The only comment that Vader had about Luke in IV is ‘the Force is strong in this one.’ How does Vader even know who Luke is? Of course we can assume that Vader found out through the Force, but even that seems a little sketchy.

So if anyone has an explanation for this plot hole, I’m interested in hearing it. Also, I should state that I don’t read EU stuff and even when I have it has no bearing on the movies. For me, the movies are the only things that I feel are relevant. So, therefore the answer to this must be in the movies somewhere and I’m just not getting it. And you can’t use the Vader and Emperor scene either. Vader mentions the name Skywalker long before that.

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Luke destroyed the Death Star and Vader was directly responsible.
He was the one who let Luke, Han, and Leia escape the Death Star and take the stolen plans to the rebel base.
You can assume the Emperor wasn't pleased... and I'm sure when spies discovered that the guy that made Vader look stupid was named Skywalker, that may have grabbed his attention a little as well.

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Oh, you never saw the deleted scene from ANH where Vader finds Luke's wallet? He dropped it near where the Millennium Falcon was parked on the Death Star. Vader notices it on the ground, picks it up, rifles through it, makes sure no one's looking, and steals ten bucks. It's on the 1992 Malaysian Laserdisc set that's in Anamorphic Widescreen with a 5:1 ratio.

Okay, I lied about all that. I have no idea.

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If you count books and comics, there is actually quite a bit of time that passes between ANH and ESB.

1. The entire book Splinter of the Mind's Eye is between the movies. It features the "first" Vader/Luke direct confrontation.

2. Luke helps in the evacuation of Yavin 4, slipping in and out past a Vader-commanded blockade.

3. Luke, with information from Imperial Admiral Griff (don't recall if he was being traitorous or trying to trap Luke), attempts to sabotage and destroy the Executor as its being built at the Fondor shipyards, again, under Vader's nose.

During all that time, Vader would have had to learn who this Alliance operative is.

BTW: MagnoliaFan, while its not exactly canon and (now) contradicts EP2, the Emperor was definitely not pleased.
In one of the Zahn books (think its the last one The Last Command, Mara Jade tells Luke (and us) about how displeased the Emperor was. I don't recall the exact line, but she says something to the effect of "Why do you think he had a mechanical left hand?"
Meaning Vader lost it to the Emperor as punishment.
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Thanks for the help everyone. However, since I don't rely on EU stuff for my answers, there has to be some sort of indication in the movies how suddenly Vader knows who Luke is.

I've heard that Lucas want to film (for the Archival Editions) a scene for Episode IV where Vader and the Emperor are talking after the destructin of the Death Star and Luke is mentioned or at least hinted about. If that were done, it could go a long way to fixing that little plot hole. It just seems strange (leaving all of the EU books, and comics out of the equation) that suddenly out of nowhere, for Vader to know who Luke is and is now obsessed with finding him. Also, in Empire, Vader knows that Obi-Won was helping Luke. I know that it's a minor plot point, but it has always bugged me.
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Maybe because Obi-Wan and Luke were both on the Death Star. All of a sudden theres this kid shouting "no" from over the hanger. Obi-Wan dies, they escape, and next thing you know, this loud mouthed kid has blown up your "Death Star"(kills me in Austin Powers).
Put 2 and 2 together, and whadya get. Luke Skywalker.
Ships that blast off from Tatooine on your Death Star. Obi-Wan on your Death Star. It's a small Galaxy all of a sudden remember!

Shit, even I could work that out!

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Here's another plot point clarification.......I think.

It's all to do with why 3PO doesn't reconise his home planet of Tatooine.
Imagine if you will, that for the last 20 odd years you having been flying around the Galaxy. When all of a sudden theres all this crazy fighting going on. The next thing you know, you've been shot through space in an escape pod, landing on some shit hole planet in the middle of a big fuck off desert. Is you first thought gonna be "I reconise this" no? Why would it. If I got dropped off the other side of this world in a jungle or desert,after flying around for 20 years, I certanally wouldn't think that the chances of landing on my own planet were very high.

So why would 3PO?

Who knows what will happen in ROTS - Rots...Lets hope it doesn't rots. Fucking rots...man!

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lmao!!!!!!!!!

You realise you've just unknowingly Jinxed this movie?? Damn you HotRod, its all your fault now if it sucks!

ps, dont forget the memory wipes..........if I lost me memory marbles I dont think i'd remember Tatooine either, but then again I can barely remember what I did 10 minutes ago! Ahhhhhhh the abuse of youth
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I really can't say I see this as a plot hole. If you need an indication in the film that Vader knows who Skywalker is when Empire begins, it's right there in the opening crawl. "Vader, obsessed with finding young Skywalker". It's not like it's a huge leap of logic to think that Imperial Intelligence, between the Battle of Yavin and the battle of Hoth, discovered the name of the Rebellion's big hero. the name alone is enough to spark Vader's interest, the fact that he has felt the force in him, before he knew the name, is enough to make sure that when he does get the name, he can put it all together. "Hmmm, kid whose last name is skywalker and is strong in the force... Possibly was in the company of Obi-Wan Kenobi and came from tatooine. Naaaah, probbly just a coincidence."

It seems perfectly logical to me that bewteen Star Wars and Empire, Vader has been informed of Luke's name, why we need something explicitly stating when and where that occurs, I don't know. We never see the characters sleep or use the washroom in the trilogy, but I think we can assume they do. It just doesn't require a scene to show it.

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hmm maybe GL thinks that EVERYTHING needs an explanation.....unfortunately if you read most of the Star Wars message boards out there, they are full of nonsensical morons that need everything pointed out & made EXTREMELY obvious.......

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Evil ugly dudes: "YIPPEEEEEEEEE!!!!"
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lol!
this is a great thread..
and just to HotRod... LMAO... i have a feeling... a very good one that your from the UK? or somewhere around there.. right?

another question that i've always wondered...

When Han is presented in front of Vader on Cloud City and shoots at him... does he know its Vader???
they've never met have they?
and im sure they dont have wanted posters all over the galaxy with Vaders face on it would they??

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"Never. I'll never turn to the darkside. You've failed your highness. I am a jedi, like my father before me."
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He saw Vader briefly on the Death Star during their escape. Beyond that, I expect, as a rebel officer, he's been given dossiers and such on high ranking Imperials. As such, I'm sure he's familiar with Vader's appearance.

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Originally posted by: Luke Skywalker
lol!
this is a great thread..
and just to HotRod... LMAO... i have a feeling... a very good one that your from the UK? or somewhere around there.. right?





I am indeed my man!!

Letchworth, Hertfordshire, UK -


And about Han and Vader thing, shit man, I used to think the exact same thing. If we are just talking about the movies then Han never really met Vader. True....
But if I remember correctly, in the old Radio drama (which I used to listen to all the time before we ever owned a vidoe player) there are a few lines which go to explain this. One part has Luke and Leia in the Falcon just after the Death Star escape, which has Leai telling Luke that the guy who chopped Ben in half was Vader, and Luke was like "oohh Thats who Vader is"..or some shit like that! There might have been some other shit with Han too, but I can't remeber. Anyway it don't matter coz it ain't the films, and thats what I base all my info on. EU...Blah!!

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Originally posted by: die-jarjar-die
lmao!!!!!!!!!

You realise you've just unknowingly Jinxed this movie?? Damn you HotRod, its all your fault now if it sucks!

ps, dont forget the memory wipes..........if I lost me memory marbles I dont think i'd remember Tatooine either, but then again I can barely remember what I did 10 minutes ago! Ahhhhhhh the abuse of youth


Well it's gonna be shit anyway! We're all expecting this film to be the nuts, but most of us are gonna come out the cinema feeling like utter shit!

I hope not, but hey, really who's come out of the cinema the last 2 times feeling bloody fantastic. TPM......I could of cried like a baby. AOTC.....A little better but still not the real Star Wars.
I'm hoping for something real special this time round...Who knows ROTS (Didn't anyone in LFL pick up on that) may just be the one that saves SW.

Oh and the memory wipe thing...Yeah sure forgot about that, but if it does happen, will all his memory be wiped or just some of it. I mean, he'll have to get to know R2 all over again...And I think it's quite obvious that R2 doesn't have his memory erased!

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See that troubles me too, both of them MUST have their memories erased for this to work, otherwise:

C3PO: "Hey short stuff, who let such a handsome stubby chap such as yourself in here?"

r2: "beep-da beep beep beeeeeeeeeeeeeep"

C3PO: "What do you mean we've been lovers for over 20 years? I've never seen you in this oil bath before EVER!"

r2: "beep-da-beep-dee-booop"

C3PO: "don't get technical with me"

r2: "beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep"

C3PO: "what are you blabbering about? Jedi Knights, heroic Senators & my father is Darth Vader? Oh behave!"

r2: "beeeep-beeeeeping beeeeeeeeeeeeeeep"

C3PO: *raised hand* "Oh fuck off Artoo"




Apologies for that baaaaaaaaaaaaaad humour, I just cant imagine that R2 wouldnt fill 3PO in on EXACTLY what has gone down between Ep's 1-3 & Ep4...it just doesn't make sense........unless 3PO has spurned R2's affections & R2 is now in a major piss with him??

After watching BB5 I just can't picture C3PO without thinking of Marco!!!! They are one & the same I'm telling you!
Evil dude: "You do not no pain, you do not know fear. You will taste MAN FLESH"

Evil ugly dudes: "YIPPEEEEEEEEE!!!!"
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well thx for the ideas on the Han/Vader thing..
i just always wondered if Han was shooting at him because he was Vader or because he just startled him...
lol
i dunno...

with the droids... they have to have their memories erased...
theres no way to explain why they never mention ANY event from the PT....
i mean they don't bring up anything that is included in the prequels...
not to my knowledge anyway...
"Never. I'll never turn to the darkside. You've failed your highness. I am a jedi, like my father before me."
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See with R2, he's one lucky or unlucky little fucker.
First he goes off with little Ani and destroys the Trade Fed ship.
Then maybe with older Ani in 3...dunno about that yet!!

Then again with Luke and blows up a Death Star!!
R2 must think how come he always ends up in the back of a space ship blowing things up!

And why doesn't R2 recognise Yoda in ESB.
I know we don't actually see then meet in the PT...yet!!!.....But he must know who Yoda is, and if he does, I doubt he'd be fighting over a lamp with the great Jedi Master!!


I dunno...we'll just have to wait for 3, and then we'll all see....Thats it from me!!....I need a pee........So I'm gonna climb a tree!!!

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Anyone else notice that Obi-Wan never meets C3PO until Episode IV? Something to watch for in the prequels...
Which is the more foolish, the fool (the OT) or the fool who follows (the PT)?

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Pagz, you're probably right. That seems logical to me. I see what you're saying. It's not really a plot hole, per se, but it has always struck me as odd. Ya know?
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