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Star Wars Colortiming & Cinematography (was What changes was done to STAR WARS in '93?) — Page 10

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here's pictures from

the empire strikes back 16mm:

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later

-1

 

[no GOUT in CED?-> GOUT CED]

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I found a couple more good-looking images of film cells from ANH. Again, there is less light traveling through these frames than there would be on a film projector, so I adjusted the brightness/contrast levels to bring out the colors. I made absolutely no hue/saturation adjustments.

The more I look at good images of these film cells, the more I realize that 1.) they came from an unfaded source, and 2.) they fully retain the original '77 color timing.

The print from which these film cells were cut seems to be low-fade, and I'm still perplexed about the lack of sound striping on every single ANH cell I've seen. Was this print struck specifically for the film cells? Did LFL or Fox happen to have a low-fade, unstriped 70mm print lying around?

Prints with the original color timing were still being screened as late as 1994, so later interpositives and print masters most likely still exist in the vaults. They may be grainy, they may be dirty, and they may be worn, but any later IPs/print masters/whatever were probably on low-fade stock and still retain the original color.

I understand that these elements were obviously too many generations removed from the source to have been usable in the SE restoration, but Lucas' implications that absolutely nothing of the original version exists in good quality is a load of Bantha poodoo.

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here's a few shots of r2d2 from the

canyon scene.. pretty dark... 

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later

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[no GOUT in CED?-> GOUT CED]

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TServo2049 said:

I found a couple more good-looking images of film cells from ANH. Again, there is less light traveling through these frames than there would be on a film projector, so I adjusted the brightness/contrast levels to bring out the colors. I made absolutely no hue/saturation adjustments.

 

The more I look at good images of these film cells, the more I realize that 1.) they came from an unfaded source, and 2.) they fully retain the original '77 color timing.

The print from which these film cells were cut seems to be low-fade, and I'm still perplexed about the lack of sound striping on every single ANH cell I've seen. Was this print struck specifically for the film cells? Did LFL or Fox happen to have a low-fade, unstriped 70mm print lying around?

Prints with the original color timing were still being screened as late as 1994, so later interpositives and print masters most likely still exist in the vaults. They may be grainy, they may be dirty, and they may be worn, but any later IPs/print masters/whatever were probably on low-fade stock and still retain the original color.

I understand that these elements were obviously too many generations removed from the source to have been usable in the SE restoration, but Lucas' implications that absolutely nothing of the original version exists in good quality is a load of Bantha poodoo.

here's our version of it (not color corrected yet):

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later

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speaking of grainy scenes. just noticed this one, yike!

the millenium falcon taking off from mos eisley,

is it like this in other versions?

sampled every 3 frames over 104:

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later

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Pure speculation on my part, but aren't shots with optical effects usually at least slightly more grainy?

A Goon in a Gaggle of 'em

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Yes, they are but not always quite this much. And yes, it is this grainy in the IB Tech print as well. My assumption is that while most of the FX shots' original elements were shot with Vistavison, this shot (along with some other similarly grainy composites) were shot in normal anamorphic widescreen and so the grain added by the compositing process is more pronounced.

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Optical effects are several generations removed from the original so that seems like a factor. 

Looking at Dark Jedi's LD conversion, this dark stuff is static so I don't think it's grain, I think it's that the Tatooine shots used nylon hose (leggings) over the lens to give it a 
diffuse, otherworldly look. 

However, Harmy's 720P version doesn't have it, so it may have been cleaned up/lightened for the later hi-def/SE editions?

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This has a much darker sky than any home video version I've seen.

I wish that I could just wish my feelings away...but I can't.  Wishful wishing can only lead to wishes wished for in futile wishfulness, which is not what I wish to wish for. 

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Joel is probably spot on about the pantyhose over the lens for the live action plate shot in Tunisia.

This is also one of the shots that was redone for the SE.

Forum Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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Don't be afraid of the grain, the extra layers of grain on optical effect sequences is how films from this era looked, people who are used to watching films on blu-ray tends to forget this sometimes.

Yes, this sequence was digitally redone for the SE, along with newly added traffic and a camera tilt. (they also erased the wires/cables above the left stormtrooper's head)

We want you to be aware that we have no plans—now or in the future—to restore the earlier versions. 

Sincerely, Lynne Hale publicity@lucasfilm.com

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-1, you missed this horizontal white line across the frame. ;)

We want you to be aware that we have no plans—now or in the future—to restore the earlier versions. 

Sincerely, Lynne Hale publicity@lucasfilm.com

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msycamore said:

-1, you missed this horizontal white line across the frame. ;)

 

i think i skipped that frame.. will have to go back to the

source frames. these are downsized of course.

later

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negative1 said:

i think i skipped that frame.. will have to go back to the

source frames. these are downsized of course.

later

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Yeah, my comment were more of a way to get you to post it. ;) As you already know, similar artifacts were on a couple of frames in the binary sunset and when I IVTC'd the LD I recall seeing it on other optical effects shots as well, being white, it's probably on the negative. When going through the film when doing IVTC you sometimes notice objects you're not supposed to be seeing when watching the film like normal people, like pen markings on FX shots and other anomalies.

We want you to be aware that we have no plans—now or in the future—to restore the earlier versions. 

Sincerely, Lynne Hale publicity@lucasfilm.com

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Hi guys! I'm a new member so I hope you don't mind me 'butting in' :)

This is a really interesting discussion, and it so happens that I own the original Star Wars movies on their respective VHS's from the 1980's. If these are of any use for comparisons or just general interest, then I will gladly do some screenshots or rip them to a DVD/my PC. They're in very good condition (I hadn't watched them in years till the other day) and provide a startling insight into how the films looked at that point in time.

Great website by the way, I look forward to contributing more!

 

TC

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here's a sequence of shots,

and cleaned up from the

vader conference in reel 4:

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the video shows the results as being very good.

later

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Nicely done.

And in the time of greatest despair, there shall come a savior, and he shall be known as the Son of the Suns.

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Those look great, negative1! :) Imagine what Star Wars will look like at full resolution once all restoration is complete? =)

A big thanks to you and all those involved in making this happen, negative1! =)

The Star Wars trilogy. There can be only one.

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glad you guys like the previews.

still aways to go.. but there's a lot

more coming..

 

later

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An American Cinematographer article on Gil Taylor's work, it''s not a new article but a nice read if you haven't checked it out: http://www.theasc.com/magazine/feb06/taylor/page1.html

The Star Wars section of the article:

The cinematographer’s next project, Star Wars (1977), became a very different sort of high-water mark in his career. The picture’s groundbreaking visual effects earned the lion’s share of the kudos, but by grounding the fantastic story and settings with classical widescreen compositions and clean lighting, Taylor clearly set the visual tone for George Lucas’ space opera. Consumed by the details of the complicated production, “George avoided all meetings and contact with me from day one, so I read the extra-long script many times and made my own decisions as to how I would shoot the picture,” says Taylor. “I took it upon myself to experiment with photographing the lightsabers and other things onstage before we moved on to our two weeks of location work in Tunisia.”

One of the first scenes shot in Tunisia shows C-3PO and R2-D2 making their way across the dunes of Tatooine. The production was hampered by inclement weather — the first rain there in years — and “you couldn’t really see where the land ended and the sky began,” says Taylor. “It was all a gray mess, and the robots were just a blur.” Given the situation, Lucas’ request for heavy filtration perplexed the cinematographer. “I thought the look of the film should be absolutely clean; also, I was mindful that there was an enormous amount of process work to be done in America after we finished shooting in England, and I knew a crisp result would help. But George saw it a differently, so we tried using nets and other diffusion. He asked to set up one shot on the robots with a 300mm, and the sand and sky just mushed together. I told him it wouldn’t work, but he said that was the way he wanted to do the entire film, all diffused.” This creative difference was resolved by 20th Century Fox executives, who saw the results of Lucas’ approach and backed Taylor’s recommendation.

After the production traveled back to Elstree, Taylor confronted another dilemma. “[Art director] John Barry’s sets, particularly the Death Star, were like a coal mine. They were all black and gray, with really no opportunities for lighting at all. My work was a matter of chopping holes in the walls and working the lighting into the sets, and this resulted in a ‘cut-out’ system of panel lighting using quartz lamps that we could put in the walls, ceiling and floors. I thought I was going to get sacked, but Fox agreed that we couldn’t have this ‘black hole of Calcutta.’ So George concentrated on the actors while I took care of my end. This lighting approach allowed George to shoot in almost any direction without extensive relighting, which gave him more freedom. But he still wouldn’t talk to me, really. He was very much preoccupied.”

Working closely with producer Gary Kurtz, Taylor delivered a distinct look, and the cinematographer earned another BSC Award nomination — and enduring admiration from several generations of Star Wars fans — for his efforts. “I still communicate with fans from all over the world with autographs and photographs,” Taylor recently told one fan Web site. “I am most happy to be remembered as the man who set the look for Star Wars. I wanted to give it a unique visual style that would distinguish it from other films in the science-fiction genre. I wanted Star Wars to have clarity because I don’t think space is out of focus.”

 

Another interesting part from when the DVD-set was released back in 2004: http://www.theasc.com/magazine/jan05/dvd/page2.html

When I began watching Star Wars, from the moment I saw C-3PO and R2-D2 on the blockade-runner I knew something was amiss; something didn’t feel right. I kept watching with an odd, unbalanced feeling in my stomach, and it wasn’t until the story cut to Tatooine that I realized the cause: this was not the Star Wars I knew. A new color pass has been done, and the soft (nearly flashed), pastel color palette created by Gilbert Taylor, BSC has been replaced by very sharp, high-contrast, super-saturated imagery. The blues were nearly popping off my screen, and the blacks were so crushed that in certain scenes — especially those that take place in the Sandcrawler — the image was losing significant detail. The over-saturated blues have also washed out a lot of sky detail and appear to have negated some ND grads that appeared in the original photography.

Taylor’s photography on Star Wars was part of what made it unique — the picture didn’t have the sharp, high-contrast, snappy look of most fantasy films. Like John Barry’s inspired production design, which looks aged and worn, Taylor’s desaturated palette and use of nets created a muted, somewhat tattered look that helped ground the story in reality. With this new transfer, that look has been completely destroyed. The new color timing does, however, make Star Wars more closely resemble the other five films in the series, especially the latter ones shot by David Tattersall, BSC. Nevertheless, this change was jolting.

Nothing new really, everyone familiar with the look of Star Wars was feeling the same thing when we first saw that DVD transfer. It's just that this is the only time I have actually seen anyone comment on the disastrous 2004 transfers in a review, every review I read back in '04 instead praised the transfers. I will however say that the great cinematography of Empire was destroyed in exactly the same way as Star Wars.

We want you to be aware that we have no plans—now or in the future—to restore the earlier versions. 

Sincerely, Lynne Hale publicity@lucasfilm.com