If I recall, the error is in the original as well, therefore should be preserved.
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I'd prefer the color corrected version because it was an error and not intended to be there. But then again I would like Vader's "white" lightsaber corrected when he is walking toward the closing bay door as that to was an obvious error that could have and should have been fixed in 1977.
PS: On a related note, there is a similar color change during the scene when R2D2 finds out the princess is on board the death star.
@Jonno: Yeah, I'm not doing that.
@Oldschooljedi: 005 is absolutely right, it was always like that.
Jonno said:
Do you happen to have the authoring tech to do a branched option on that sequence (a la Mike's archival/signature variants)? Of course that might open a whole can o' worms where other judgement calls have been necessary...
That is WAY more trouble than it's worth for a few seconds of goofy color timing. Plus, enough additional evidence has been presented to cast doubt on the idea that this blue tint was what was seen in theaters in the first place.
Yes, as much as I like it, I understand if Harmy doesn't want it in there. I have a number of IB prints (sorry, no Star Wars!) and they are really neat to watch because the developing process often created anomalies like this. Depending on the film gauge and developing center, IB film was processed in batches of 100-400 ft., then pieced together. The result is literally being able to see shifts in color timing based on which "section" you are looking at. The bonus result is having no two films look alike, so I completely understand not wanting to go with the screwy timing.
Oldschooljedi said:
Vader is holding the blue lightsaber and Ben is holding the red lightsaber. This happens only for a few frames, almost not noticeable, but when you know it you see it.
Lucasfilm sure knows how to "color-correct" a scene.
EDIT: Oh, it's in the original? I never noticed this. Maybe because it happens so fast.
Harmy said:
@Oldschooljedi: 005 is absolutely right, it was always like that.
I just whatched the scene on the GOUT DVD and yes, your're right. I didn't ever notice that, must have something to do with the poorer picture quality on older releases (or my eyes).
It's just another piece of evidence that the Special Edition project started as a 1:1 recomposition of the original elements, that somehow got expanded to a "fix some mistakes while creating new ones".
Here's another part where they kept an error because it existed in the original:
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Harmy, at 1:38:36ish (R2 closeup) the screen goes monochromatic - is that normal?
Dunno, doesn't seem monochromatic to me:
R2 looks white and black, to me. Anyone else see that?
Another great WP! There's a lot of other people here who understand what Harmy is doing and the technical side of things, but to my eyes it looks great. Star Wars - the way it should be. Looking forward to the final edit.
Harmy, can you do a comparison of the shot I listed previously and compare it to shot 1:41:42 and 1:41:45? Just curious.
ww12345 said:
R2 looks white and black, to me. Anyone else see that?
He isn't supposed to be blue right here if that's what you mean.
That is what I meant. Why isn't he supposed to be blue? I've never noticed that before...
Not trying to be nit-picky, just wanting this to be the best it can possibly be (so that Harmy doesn't have to do a 3.0!)
ww12345 said:
R2 looks white and black, to me. Anyone else see that?
He's supposed to. A standard blue R2 unit was an obvious problem for the bluescreen shots in space, so a black R2 was used for those shots.
Interesting. Never knew that.
Another thing I noticed was the weird line on the lower left-hand portion of the screen at 1:43:37 - is that correct?
Harmy, I just finished watching the credits, and I have to say - YAY for Gate-weave!
Seriously, great job. It was undoubtedly a hard job, but you did it perfectly. Thanks so much!
Thanks to Mike for weighing in. I agree with his perspective on things, ultimately.
With the Senator screening showing an example of a Technicolor print that clearly did not have the extreme blue cast in those two shots, and taking into account that no two such prints came out looking completely identical to each other, I think we can safely assume it is an error that was not more widely seen, and not indicative of the way it is supposed to look. It is an instance in which a lab mistake on a particular print has been immortalized: usually blue is the first thing to go when film fades, but not here, since the dyes do not diminish at all.
I think Harmy's call is the right one: give the shot slightly more of a blue cast as a nod to the way it looks there, but mostly keep it the way he had it before. The shift was so extreme that the lightsabres were almost completely drowned out, and that cannot possibly have been the intent.
It occurs to me that since the Technicolor prints were made differently than all the rest, there is a possibility that the colour timing is not completely identical. I recall Mike explaining that rather than going the usual route from an interpositive, they came from a separate master that itself was derived directly from the negative, and since the negative contains no colour timing information, it seems likely that it would have had to be done separately. In such a case it is probable they used a reliable reference in order to retain the proper look and avoid the creation of something that radically differed from how the movie appeared elsewhere, but some of the observed inconsistency may perhaps be explained by this. With the saturation levels being bolder than regular Eastman stock, any errors would accordingly be exaggerated and compounded in the process.
Still, potential errors aside it really does look fantastic, and I'm so glad we'll be able to see something that resembles the Technicolor, even if only as an approximation. In addition to the superior colour process, those prints would have had greater resolution and less dupe grain due to being one generation closer to the negative, so seeing the film projected that way is probably the best it could ever look; but this is a big step towards bringing back the original appearance. So, Harmy and Mike, big thanks from me for that.
And if this download would ever hurry up, I'd actually be able to check out the latest previews . . .
Just watched the updated saber fight, amazing!
Harmy: OK if I just stick the recent clips in my public dropbox or something? That surely must be faster than uloz
“I find your lack of faith disturbing.”
ww12345 said:
Interesting. Never knew that.
This is EXACTLY the reason why these preservation projects exist
I love those sharp credits. They simply look fantastic.
@bilditup1: Sure, that'd be great.
The last work print looks wonderful. It's almost strange to see some of those Death Star battle scenes added back in, it's been so long since we've seen them.
The one thing that is all over the map, color wise, is Han's shirt. It bounces around between yellow and white-ish. Luke and Leia's clothing stays consistent though. I guess that's just the way Han's shirt photographed.
For the finished versions of this, I hope that alternative download services are an option. If not, it could take us weeks to download it:)