Religion — Page 12

So I am in a microbiology class over the summer.  Such fascinating stuff.  The most primitive forms of life on our planet, bacteria and archaea, are more complex than I can imagine.  There is in fact a certainly complexity to them to compensate for their shortcomings when compared to eukaryotic cells, such as energy production.  Protein synthesis.  Glycolysis, Krebs cycle, electron transfer chain.  Billions of codes of DNA.  Incredible!  Utterly incredible!

I can't pretend to know how God created life or what process he used to guide it to what it is today, with mankind as his masterpiece.  But there is no way that I could possibly believe that God did not have a hand in all this.

Interesting article on the the mathematical probability of intelligent life on other planets.

http://www.science20.com/news_releases/the_mathematical_probability_of_life_on_other_earth_like_planets

No matter how you view the universe, we are something truly special...unless you hold that weird view about mankind being the biggest, most destructive mistake of the universe.  That's right, battery man, I'm looking at you ;)

Already having learned this stuff before, it is still refreshing to learn about genetics and the amazingly complex chemical reactions that comprise replication, translation, and ultimately what leads to a life form.  I fail to see how this could have arisen without a God.  I'm not saying I subscribe to absolute ideas about life (for instance, I am quite open to evolution).  But I do believe that God had a hand throughout all of this.

Incidentally, I've been reading through the old religion thread that twister found.  I find it fascinating that C3PX was such an ardent defender of Christianity (and as eloquent as always, I might add), while sean_wookie dismissed religion so out of hand.  Both, it seems, have had some changes of thought in the past 5 years.  Fascinating.

darth_ender said:

Incidentally, I've been reading through the old religion thread that twister found.  I find it fascinating that C3PX was such an ardent defender of Christianity (and as eloquent as always, I might add), while sean_wookie dismissed religion so out of hand.  Both, it seems, have had some changes of thought in the past 5 years.  Fascinating.

I am still an ardent defender of Christianity.

My bad.  I did phrase it poorly.  You seemed to still be a subscriber, though today you no longer are.  I'm happy to hear you defending it.  Despite our past differences, I really do enjoy your comments and your passion.

I haven't gone through and read the posts that preceed mine, but it seems that many debates over the existence of God/ influence of God over reality presuppose an "either/or" mentality.

There is an atheist by the name of Richard Dawkins who discussed in a book his concept of a "god of the gaps." His idea is that people use God as an attempt as an explanation for the workings of any misunderstood natural phenomenon, only to abandon this once a naturalistic explanation has been found. (I am not an atheist anymore, but I do like to hear all sides of any argument that interests me.)

Assuming that God does exist, is theistic (rather than deistic), and is truly omnipotent and omniscient, then the only analogy that I can think of to compare this to is virtual reality.

Let's say I were to step into a computer world (like the Matrix or a video game or whatever). I am walking down the street, and to my side I see a red ball. I kick it and it rolls a few feet ahead of me, slowly coming to a stop.

Now, everything in that situation can be explained though physics. But does it mean that the massive supercomputer running the virtual reality world had no part to play, or that it is a contradiction to say that both the laws of physics and the supercomputer make it move? On an immediate, superficial level, you could argue that it must be that the supercomputer had no part to play. But would it really be a contradiction to say that, on a sublime level, it was all by the invisible hand of that supercomputer?

CP3S said:

darth_ender said:

Incidentally, I've been reading through the old religion thread that twister found.  I find it fascinating that C3PX was such an ardent defender of Christianity (and as eloquent as always, I might add), while sean_wookie dismissed religion so out of hand.  Both, it seems, have had some changes of thought in the past 5 years.  Fascinating.

I am still an ardent defender of Christianity.

You are?   I could have sworn you told me that you were an agnostic.   I also remember you saying that there are some pretty silly things in the Bible.    But please correct me if I am mistaken. 

walkingdork said:

Bobocop said:

So I had a dream a few years back that's really stuck with me.

I broke into the Dinosaurs' computer lab and started to dig around in their files... and I discovered the shocking truth that the world was created by a Dump Truck with a beard.

Thoughts?

 

Start a religion. These fuckers will believe in anything. :P

and by that I mean mankind. (It seems shameful that I have to be clear I don't mean anyone in particular in these forums)

not really sure why you think that shouldn't have to say "and by that I mean mankind".     I think without the part in the quotes, it would be perfectly reasonable of me to take what you said very personally.  

walkingdork said:

By "I mean mankind" I mean I could literally make up the dumbest story I could think of (including a dump truck with a beard) and if I has the charm and charisma I could start a religion/cult and people would believe in it just as fiercly as Christians believe in their beliefs or Muslims believe in theirs.

If I would have just left it as "these silly willies will believe in anything" I knew you would assume I meant Christians or you or Ender personally.

 I think you has lotz of charizma and you coulds totally starts your own kult.

I just wanted to say that my agnosticism is the only thing keeping me from being a hard nihilist. If I were an atheist* I'd be sure there was no purpose or no meaning to existence, rather than merely feeling such.



*I'm aware that most atheists aren't nihilists and will probably criticize me for my statement. I'd just like to say this is all IMHO, that I'm not criticizing atheists for being atheists, and that I have no intention of trying to convert anyone, as such, to my way of thinking.

Jesus/raptor pictures; Jesus chocolate statues; mockery of Christianity:

Christians become offended.

Atheist response:

You superstitious Christians need to lighten up!

Danish cartoons depicting Islam in a negative light; criticism of Islam:

Muslims become violent.

Atheist response:

You insensitive Christians who think you're right and all other religions are wrong.  You bigots!

;)

Bur Raptor Jesus is funny ;-)

darth_ender said:

Atheist response:

You insensitive Christians who think you're right and all other religions are wrong.  You bigots!

;)

I suppose we are talking I'm-a-super-hip-liberal-and-too-cool-to-be-Christian short of "atheists" here? I've never met too many of those, usually the enlightened too cool to be Christian types seem to aim for some other type of spiritualism, for whatever reason.

I think you'd be surprised to find that a very large number of (true) atheists are extremely critical of Islam and it's ludicrous fit throwing at depictions of Muhammad. 

^I made sure to include a smiley to assure that both no offense was intended as well as an acknowledgement to what I was sure would be a response to my point.  (Remember when you made that suggestion...I've been using smileys a lot more since then).

I actually have noticed this.  I feel that there are many fair-minded atheists and have a great deal of respect for them.  Even those who criticize religion are still the recipients of my respect, as long as their criticism is fair-minded and not the I'm-a-super-hip-liberal sort.  Though I know I've had religious related spats with you and others, I hope that as you've come to know me and my personality a bit better, you've seen taht I'm rather tolerant of others' views and their disagreement.  I was not offended by Bobocop (though if I'd met him in person, I might request that he not disrespect someone so sacred to me in my presence, but this is an Internet forum).

My whole point to the post was merely to cause a little reflection.  There are also many who are the "cool" sort, and they are prevalent on the 'net (though this site is actually generally rather respectful and genuine).  If you go to Huffington Post or even IMDB and look at a discussions surrounding a religious flick, there are so many there who cling to a self-righteous nature that is particularly targeted at Christians (especially Catholics and Mormons), who think themselves far above Christianity, yet simultaneously overly-defensive of Islam.  Or there are those who simply in ignorance criticize every aspect of religion, even the virtues of both Christianity and Islam, simply because they have "risen above" the foolishness of such superstitious beliefs.

I appreciate your take on most things C3PS, and I respect your view and tolerance in spite of our different worldviews.