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George Lucas leaves Lucasfilm — Page 8

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But you did not quote anything!

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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Baronlando said:

But if some of those original composite shots are just too far gone, what can you do. That one particular stock was defective, and I assume those shots are just rotting and getting worse all the time? Close Encounters had the same issue I believe, (the same defective stock from '77) not sure what the solution there was. 

Maybe they utilized the separation masters? Apparently there was 62 shots in total that was on that unstable CRI-stock in Star Wars, some of them includes the Stardestroyer capturing Leia's ship and some of the shots of X-wings flying through the Death Star trench.

There seems to be some problem with the color separation masters on Star Wars though, Tom Christopher, the Lucasfilm editor in charge of the restoration - "the preservation effort was botched, (separation masters) mostly by a failure to clean the negative before copying it, and the studio never bothered to inspect the final results. Far from constituting a single studio's sin, such neglect of corporate assets was endemic to Hollywood at the time, and remains widespread today.

As a consequence, the restoration team was forced to struggle with a negative that was not only dirty but badly worn, from making thousands of prints, and was seriously faded, even though it had been stored at prescribed temperatures and humidity in a vault 650 feet down in a salt mine near Wichita, Kan. Blue skies and rich blacks had lost their luster. Silver had almost vanished from the emulsion in certain scenes, like the prelude to Kenobi's duel to the death with Darth Vader. Flesh tones had turned pallid. Strobing effects and those red fluctuations had mysteriously appeared. Some parts, such as the Tatooine desert sequences shot in Tunisia, had never had much luster to begin with. ("Star Wars," it's useful to recall, was first considered the slapdash work of a brash young upstart.) Other pieces weren't even original negative, but intentionally degraded duplicates that Mr. Lucas had stuck in to avoid emphasizing the quality of adjacent optical effects, some of which were so crude as to be almost unacceptable.

Eventually 748 of the 2,228 shots in the movie were redone in the course of creating a new negative, from which some 2,000 new prints have been struck for the current national release. (Similar though less extensive work has been done for the two sequels, "The Empire Strikes Back" and "Return of the Jedi.")


Mike Verta have also mentioned that the separation masters are incomplete, apparently there's entire color channels missing for at least a couple of the reels.

But it can be done especially with modern tools, I think that Robert Harris have mentioned it in the past, there are lots of films that don't have original negatives that have been restored. And there also have to be existing IP's in decent shape for at least making a good looking blu-ray transfer. I have definitely limited knowledge in the field but even I understand that it's not impossible to completely restore Star Wars, Lucas just want us to think so. There's also good looking IB Technicolor prints out there. As you've said Baronlando, these kind of things are done every Tuesday. ;)

We want you to be aware that we have no plans—now or in the future—to restore the earlier versions. 

Sincerely, Lynne Hale publicity@lucasfilm.com

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I haven't said that (this week). 

It's amazing that the separation masters were so bungled, it makes you wonder how many movies you think are taken care of actually aren't. I hope at last Empire and Jedi were done properly. (Wonder if THX1138 even got that level of treatment, or was too low-budget for any kind of archival versions, which would make that "restoration" just as bad if not worse. )

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Baronlando said:

I haven't said that (this week). 

We need more blu-ray cover pics of obscure titles that have been treated better than SW in this thread. :) 

Baronlando said: 

It's amazing that the separation masters were so bungled, it makes you wonder how many movies you think are taken care of actually aren't. I hope at last Empire and Jedi were done properly. (Wonder if THX1138 even got that level of treatment, or was too low-budget for any kind of archival versions, which would make that "restoration" just as bad if not worse. )

I can imagine that separation masters were a costly process so I strongly doubt such an effort was made for THX that was even hated by the studio, but you never know. I guess one advantage for that films condition were its unpopularity. I wonder how common it really was for the studios to create separation masters?

We want you to be aware that we have no plans—now or in the future—to restore the earlier versions. 

Sincerely, Lynne Hale publicity@lucasfilm.com

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Ah crap, I had forgotten about that restoration thread. RETREAT! RETREAT!

No, but to answer Baronlando, I had read somewhere that the Special Editions for ESB and ROTJ were put together using a dupe negative. Apparently the original A/B rolls were untouched.

I wish I could find the source for that...

Unfortunately the original star wars has seen most of the abuse. A lot of what I read has shown that the original effects negatives have faded into nothing, the separation masters are incomplete, so the best source for a restoration would be an IP or dupe negative (if that even exists) or an IB print.

What’s the internal temperature of a TaunTaun? Luke warm.

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[quote=msycamore]



Baronlando said:
We need more blu-ray cover pics of obscure titles that have been treated better than SW in this thread. :)


Yes, please!

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Ah, those naughty nuns... :)

We want you to be aware that we have no plans—now or in the future—to restore the earlier versions. 

Sincerely, Lynne Hale publicity@lucasfilm.com

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evan1975 said:

danny_boy said:

It is relevant because in the period that it was not available Wise(and Paramount) were never castigated in the same manner that Lucas has been.

1) People WERE pissed about only having the DCs on DVD.  But at least all the scenes that were changed WERE on the DVD as deleted scenes bonus features.  A fan editor could have used those and reassembled the original cut if they wanted to.  (I don't think anyone did, though.)

2) People ARE pissed about the current inverse situation, where we can't get the DCs on Blu-ray

3) But the majority of people don't give a damn about Star Trek: The Motion Picture.  It was a lousy to mediocre movie depending what cut you watch.  Many, many more people love Star Wars, thus a disproportionate outcry.

But you know this already.

 

Well---no film is perfect----but if there had been no Star Trek The Motion Picture-----then there would have been no ST movie franchise ------ Period.

And if I am not mistaken----after it is adjusted for inflation---ST:TMP  had been the highest grossing ST movie(yes---even more than the beloved Wrath Of Khan!)----until the 2009 release of Abrams's new ST film.

I do agree with your points that you made above------- having said that there is a certain amount of subjectivity when it comes to this kind of analysis.

I personally felt that the CGI version of the Vger spaceship looked exactly that----CGI!

I also think that  the CGI depiction of the Vulcan planetscape also looked out of place for a  movie made in 1979.

Also---the deleted scenes did not include every scene that had been replaced by CGI.

It should also not be forgotten that the CGI additions made for this 2001 Star Trek special edition were only rendered in a modest 480i resolution(when 2K was already considered a standard)-----thus they would not hold up on a big screen.

All of this would have been more than enough for Trekkies to make a rumble.

 

 

 

I saw Star Wars in 1977. Many, many, many times. For 3 years it was just Star Wars...period. I saw it in good theaters, cheap theaters and drive-ins with those clunky metal speakers you hang on your window. The screen and sound quality never subtracted from the excitement. I can watch the original cut right now, over 30 years later, on some beat up VHS tape and enjoy it. It's the story that makes this movie. Nothing? else.

kurtb8474 1 week ago

http://www.youtube.com/all_comments?v=SkAZxd-5Hp8


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I think it goes without saying (or at least I thought it did), that the more popular a movie is, the more uproar everyone will make when it is "disappeared".

Since ST:TMP has not fared well over time, I can see how the Director's Cut sort of got a big "meh".

Plus, it's not like the powers that be ever said the original ST:TMP would NEVER released and in fact had been PURPOSEFULLY DESTROYED.

You know of the rebellion against the Empire?

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Erikstormtrooper said:

I think it goes without saying (or at least I thought it did), that the more popular a movie is, the more uproar everyone will make when it is "disappeared".

Since ST:TMP has not fared well over time, I can see how the Director's Cut sort of got a big "meh".

Plus, it's not like the powers that be ever said the original ST:TMP would NEVER released and in fact had been PURPOSEFULLY DESTROYED.

 

Unfortunately----the popularity of a film and the degradation of the original negative that ensues because the film is popular-------are inextricably linked.

And this is where Lucas deserves praise.

All the original elements that comprised the hundreds of special effects that feature throughout the original cut of Star Wars were saved by Lucas----which allows him to restore those frames  if needed(the seeker ball training scene onboard the falcon being one example).

I am not sure other big budget /effects heavy films from the 70's/early 80's  have had their composite elements preserved as meticulously as Star Wars.

It is probably one of the reasons why films such as Close Encounters and Superman have only been subjected to 2k scans---any higher scans(4K) would only expose the limitations of the optical compositing.------and it probably also explains why Lucas thinks that those effects don't hold up(he is on record as not being happy with the effects as far back as the summer of 1977.)

 

I saw Star Wars in 1977. Many, many, many times. For 3 years it was just Star Wars...period. I saw it in good theaters, cheap theaters and drive-ins with those clunky metal speakers you hang on your window. The screen and sound quality never subtracted from the excitement. I can watch the original cut right now, over 30 years later, on some beat up VHS tape and enjoy it. It's the story that makes this movie. Nothing? else.

kurtb8474 1 week ago

http://www.youtube.com/all_comments?v=SkAZxd-5Hp8


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I've read conflicting stories over the years about whether TMP's FX elements were saved. It's debatable whether Paramount would have footed the bill to recomposite those shots where the matte lines are very visible.

I have noticed that in some early Next Generation episodes, a clean shot of the TMP Klingon battlecruiser was used. (Same angle and lighting as in the film, but new background.) This may have been totally replaced in the new HD versions though.

Where were you in '77?

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danny_boy said:

Having said that  the public have never been shown which or what frames(that featured optical composites) have/had  deteriorated.

A lot of the original composites are still in the special edition----and they look to be in excellent condition(although they exihibit the extra grain and contrast associated with 3rd generation elements)

 

There's a possibility you would be surprised how few of those there is that are original, there wasn't actually that many of them left in the 2004 DVD version. They could perhaps be counted on one hand or two, this isn't actually a matter of degraded material either any more, it just happen to be a perfect opportunity for Lucas to redo the film, as many shots they recomposited in '97, just as many were done for the DVD, and then it isn't about deteriorated material any longer, it's about replacing every optical shot to get rid of all the grain and ultimately none of the original academy award winning ground breaking special effects work are left to be seen.

I have actually not seen the blu-ray transfer myself, but is there actually additional grain and increased contrast on any of the effects work? I find it hard to believe when Lowry made a big deal of getting rid of such things in 2004.

We want you to be aware that we have no plans—now or in the future—to restore the earlier versions. 

Sincerely, Lynne Hale publicity@lucasfilm.com

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One of the things that chaps my ass the most in Star Wars (A New Hope)....that scene at the moisture farm with ghost Luke image.  It sticks out every time I see it.  Showed a friend of mine the Blu Ray releases as he had never seen them yet.  It makes me cringe!!

 

All these film restore experts and no one at Lucasfilm caught that?? TERRIBLE!!!!!!

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Well---no film is perfect----but if there had been no Star Trek The Motion Picture-----then there would have been no ST movie franchise ------ Period.

And if I am not mistaken----after it is adjusted for inflation---ST:TMP  had been the highest grossing ST movie(yes---even more than the beloved Wrath Of Khan!)----until the 2009 release of Abrams's new ST film.

I do agree with your points that you made above------- having said that there is a certain amount of subjectivity when it comes to this kind of analysis.

I personally felt that the CGI version of the Vger spaceship looked exactly that----CGI!

I also think that  the CGI depiction of the Vulcan planetscape also looked out of place for a  movie made in 1979.

 

I thought TMP (Director's Cut) was OK.  It had the best soundtrack of the six, IMHO.  I also liked that "Kirk's shuttle ride to the Enterprise" scene that everyone seems to hate.

I think we can tell those scenes were CGI, but I doubt the average person can.  Some of those vintage effects like the warping and the transporter beams kind of look like CGI even though they weren't.

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Computer animation outfit Robert Abel and Associates were contracted to do visual FX for TMP, but they were a casualty of a troubled production. I don't know if anything they worked on ever made it into the finished film, even though they did get a screen credit.

Where were you in '77?

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I think that streaky stuff when they go into the wormhole and it gets all trippy was Abel.

Speaking of effects, I wonder what's going to happen to ILM in the long run. How do they stay necessary and valuable. (It seems significant that RED TAILS had most of its effects not done by ILM)

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What else has ILM worked on lately? Could be that they were swamped with other projects at the same time.

Where were you in '77?

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Collider said:

How did the advances in technology in the past few years possibly help or shift the telling of this story?

McCallum: Well I wouldn’t say there was anything revolutionary in terms of technology except for the cost per shot ratio. Had we done this 10 or 15 years ago, we would’ve been locked into ILM only being able to do this. What happened at this point is, by serendipity happening not until 2010-2011, what we were able to see were a number of visual effects houses, a number of a new generation of artists that had entered the workplace all around the world. While we were shooting the Czech Republic we met a company called UPP, they have about 100-120 artists, and they were starting to do astonishing work for television and some major breakthrough in 3D matte paintings. They had never done a film of this size, and they couldn’t do a film of our size—cause we have over 1600 visual effects shots—but we felt confident that they could do somewhere between 400 and 550 shots.

There was another company called Pixomondo in Germany and they had done a World War I German film called The Red Baron. They had done a huge experimentation in cloud manipulation—all digital—that we thought was really, really interesting and unbelievably cheap, so they came onboard. They hit another benchmark altogether, they did more shots than anybody; they ended up doing about 575 shots. There’s a wonderful company in Mexico and Canada and a company we’ve always wanted to work with in Austria called Rising Sun when we were doing Star Wars. They had all, during the last four or five years, found a level of talent and manage their companies well enough that they’re starting to be major players. It’s like when you saw Inception, that was done by a relatively small house in London at the time, but [it was] astonishing work. Normally if you had seen that you’d have said, “No, there’s only three companies that could’ve done that. Weta, Sony ImageWorks, or Industrial Light and Magic.”

That’s what happening now, there’s a worldwide group of people—still limited, because it’s such a particularly difficult thing that you’re asking, you’re asking for an engineer to be an artist. You’re dealing with a guy who understands physics, science, and math at a level that’s incompatible with a normal person, but at the same time who’s gotta be an artist. He’s gotta have a sense of painting, of history and what things do, of images. It’s very hard to find that kind of person, but now there’s so many different schools, there’s so many people that are interested in film and especially in terms of the technology side of film, that suddenly the fruits of everybody’s labor is really starting to manifest itself all across the planet. I mean China, we had about 35 full shots done out of Pixomondo’s offices in China. Very, very promising. They’re probably five, seven years behind but they’re gonna get there and it’s gonna happen unbelievably quickly.

The reason for all of that is how do you drive the cost down? How do you get a writer to be able to sit down with a producer and director and write anything that’s in his imagination? Or a director to allow him to be unlimited in the size and scope of what he wants to do, and find a way in which you can utilize the resources around the world to make it happen in a more cost efficient way. That’s the whole game plan. And one of the problems we had too at the particular time—which forced us into this position—was ILM was completely filled up. It was booked for two and a half years. They were doing Pirates and Transformers and every big film, so we had no other choice but to look around the rest world.

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SilverWook said:

I'd like to think George respects Frank Oz too much to do that to Original Puppet Yoda (tm).

Love the wizard of Oz, but Stuart Freeborn deserves a great deal of credit too.  and I can totally see lucas personally no longer caring about his contributions.  All the apologists and sycophants will say "well, yoda was lucas' creation, stuart freeborn was just realizing his vision!!!!!!!!!!" - which of course is totally bogus.  Like every one else, he went far above and beyond the call of duty.

Bill Hunts story, im not so sure how much I believe - especially the part that they decided against it because the cgi dind't match the dagobah sets and lights.  It would be completely out of character for lucas to give a damn about even the most basic standards of filmmaking quality.  Besides,  there is nothing to stop him from replacing puppet yoda with a shitty cgi version and then just re-releasing ESB version 1.4 with a different but still shitty version.

Count on ESB/ROTJ yoda being replaced - and us finding out from leaked info (just like the NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! and the ridiculous letterbox 2006 release)

Will it turn the tide? not sure.  With the clone wars and other things, bouncy lightsaber yoda is becoming more and more the definitive image.  But I can gaurantee demand for de-specialized editions will skyrocket even more than last year.

 

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