PROMETHEUS was (Alien 0?) NOW NO LONGER SPOILER FREE. — Page 22

Must be tough finding entertainment that contains no references to anything ever.

Religious references don't ruin movies for me.  They're not a plus or a minus to me, just a "zero".

Comedies that rely almost entirely on pop culture are fairly rare.  I don't watch Seth MacFarlane cartoons or Friedberg/Selzer movies.  I hear I'm not missing much.

evan1975 said:

timdiggerm said:

What if the allusions had been to ancient myths or some other religion?

I don't really like that either.  That engineer sacrificing himself at the beginning is probably supposed to be a reference to Prometheus; again, that doesn't really do anything for me.

I also hate TV shows that rely on pop culture references for humor.  (Family Guy)  I wonder if there's a connection.

I think it's more a reference to Uranus and Christ but it works narratively too (it's an alien culture that seeds other planets with their organic material and self sacrifice is their preferred ritualistic method of delivery).

It's what the humans do that makes less sense and that's bizarre in a film made by humans for humans.

Bingowings, even though I can't get onboard with the whole 'flute'(!) thing, I sure liked a lot of the notions you came up with on page 16, and would rather have seen something nearer *that* onscreen, compared to the movie we ended up with!

And asterisk8, that link to Gavin Rothery's blog you posted on page 19 covered some really good points I hadn't seen mentioned elsewhere.

As well as having general misgivings about the whole 'Chariots Of The Gods'-type storyline to begin with, I was also one of those who was sceptical of the notion of ALIEN's mysterious 'Spacejockey' skeleton turning out to be an ancient 'spacesuit'...considering the 'skull's open mouth actually had 'teeth' attached to it in the close-ups, on top of everything else...  They weren't seen on the 'Engineer's 'helmet' in PROMETHEUS (of course not, seeing as it's meant to be a 'helmet' now, rather than a 'skull')...

...and even though I wasn't entirely satisfied with imagining them as being the 'helmet'-wearer's teeth instead, I was willing to disregard this little 'continuity' detail, and just completely go with the movie's overall storyline.

But in the end, although I thought it's 3D was really effective, PROMETHEUS has unfortunately turned out to be yet another addition to a handful of movies that I really wanted to like a lot more.  And like some others, I was disappointed with Ridley's 'Theatrical' cut in certain places, and hope that the future 'extended' version can improve on things somewhat.

So just for fun, I wanted to see if I could come up with a few alterations of my own for an 'imaginary' edit of PROMETHEUS, which would allow for reasonably smooth music and sound transitions throughout.  Here's what I'd prefer to see -

1.  Revealing the 'Engineer's appearance so near the beginning really gave away what the 'Spacejocky's looked like a little too early in the movie for my liking...but although I guess there'll probably be future edits that remove this scene entirely, my own preference would be to KEEP the initial epic, sweeping shots of the landscape (featuring the credits and title score) leading up to the waterfalls and saucer, as well as the 'sacrificial Engineer' prologue, regardless. 

It seems there's a chance that instead of the lone 'Engineer' at the beginning, that we may see a longer scene with various other 'Engineers' in the 'extended' version...but either way, I'd prefer to cut out a couple of overly-CGI'd shots during the 'disintegration' of the 'sacrificial Engineer'...and just cut from the initial extreme close-up of his 'DNA'-strands breaking down at the point the screen then goes completely black, and instead go directly to the close-up of his leg giving way before he collapses into the waterfall.  He will *still* seem to be getting 'infected' quickly and 'breaking apart' without requiring the shots of the 'black ooze' flying around him, which reminded me of a 'swarm of angry bees'.  It's just a little thing however, and no biggie.  We'd then continue as normal as the 'Engineer's DNA mutates and the main title 'PROMETHEUS' appears briefly before fading out to black...

2.  ...but at *this* point however, what I would REALLY like to see incorporated...is the '2023 TEDtalk' viral featuring Guy Pierce as the younger Weyland.  I missed not seeing any part of this nicely performed speech in the movie, and felt it would have really added something of interest for what was ahead, and strongly informed us about the persona of 'old man' Weyland who appeared later on.  And it would have tied in nicely with the 'Lawrence Of Arabia' scene that David watched later too, of course. 

Here the scene - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tvx1xr88qfM

It also seems like there's a chance that the FULL 6 minute version of the '2023 TEDtalk' viral will feature as an extra on the 'extended' release...but I'd be content to just include the shortened version linked to above, so that it ends with the words - "My name is Peter Weyland...and if you'll indulge me, I'd like to change the world..." before the clapping dies down and we then fade to black...

3.  ...and after a brief pause, we'd *then* transition into the darkness of the Scottish cave being excavated to reveal Shaw's face peering through, and continue the movie as normal from this point, which reveals we are now in the year 2089...  (Although some may remove this scene too, I kinda like this moment of actual 'cave painting' discovery.  And as I'm from the Highlands of Scotland myself, I wouldn't dream of removing any of the 'Isle of Skye' footage!) :)

4.  But when I reached the moment where David removed the 'helmet' to reveal the 'Engineer's head, I rolled my eyes when it was suggested that it might be possible to 'trick it into coming alive'...  This kinda thing worked fine for me when it came to reviving the likes of Ash's 'robotic' head in ALIEN, but making out that it might be possible to bring this long-dead 'organic' head to 'life'' seemed a little laughable to me, even in the context of this movie's future setting...  On top of that, some shots of the bulging head and eye movements in this sequence came across as overly 'animatronic'-looking, which kinda threw it off even more for me.

The scene can't really be removed unfortunately, as it's too relevant in the context of other scenes...but it's possible to cut out certain shots from the sequence to make it look like the head 'unexpectedly comes to life' instead...when an 'incision' is being made.  Perhaps the long-'dormant' black ooze that seeps from the head could be thought of as being somehow reacting to being exposed to human contact or something, causing the head to 'seem' to 'come alive' before the crew hurredly isolate it, before it then explodes...  Who knows?, but the scene plays out a little creepier and unexpected if it's altered this way.  (It also reminds me of how an unexpected consequence occurred in ALIEN when a certain other 'incision' was made...)

5.  I initially presumed that 'Vickers' would turn out to be a 'robot' too, especially after Ridley's early comments about there being more than one in the movie.  Anyway, I'd prefer to remove some of the 'Stephen Stills'/'flirting' dialogue involving her and the Captain which kinda indicated she's *not*.  This is one of the 'questionmarks' that I'd have actually preferred to remain a little more ambiguous...and there's a nice way to do it which ends with the Captain asking her the question, before she then looks at him in a 'taken aback' way without answering him, as he looks at her again as if to say "Well?..." and she then just walks off without answering him...as he looks on afterwards.  This would keep the 'mystery' a little more intact.

6.  As far as the moments where 'Fifield' and 'Milburn' seemed to be lost, despite all the 'mapping' technology available...it's possible to reduce this by removing a brief part of the 2 shots where we hear 'Milburn' saying - "We've been here before, Fifield"...and when one of them says - "Which way now, huh?...well which way now, huh?" on a monitor that Janek the Captain is beside at one point.  They are basically inside the corridors of the 'pyramid'-dome during these scenes, and have been told by the Captain that between static electricity and windspeed, that there's no way to safely come and get them until the storm passes, and just to wait there till the morning.  But they investigate the area a little more while they are there.  (However, even removing these lines doesn't help to explain why these guys are *still* in the 'pyramid'-dome complex to begin with...considering they left the others a good while earlier...  Surely, they would have just exited the same route that they entered, just as the others presumably did without difficulty, later on?)

7.  It's also possible to make 'Milburn' the biologist get bitten by the 'space-cobra' a lot quicker, so that he *doesn't* seem like such an idiot for continuing to go near it, despite it's continual 'hissing' and threatening pose.  (It's a pity the scene didn't just show 'Fifield' and 'Milburn' backing away from this creature in the first place, only to then be attacked by the other one from their rear...) 

8.  And while some may like 'em, the shots of the 'flute' that was played by the 'Engineer' and David to initially 'power-up' the spacecraft didn't really do it for me (sorry Bingo) I have to say.  I realise there was actually a subtle musical note added to the 'Engineer's 'sacrificial' bowl at the start of the movie, so I guess their culture embraces a musical tendancy...but I'd prefer to see these 'flute' shots removed altogether, to give things a less-'cultured' vibe in these scenes.  The scenes still work fine without them, including the accompanying 'powering-up' sounds.

9.  Finally, we come to one of my *main* bugbears about the existing movie - the ending! 

I certainly understand why Ridley felt this kind of scene was required, but it just came across as an overly-'shlocky' finale as far as I'm concerned.  I was quite ready to accept the overgrown 'Cthulhu'-like 'squid' monstrosity overwhelming the 'Engineer' as being the last image of an 'alien' in this movie...but this additional 'birth'-scene seemed 'tacked on', and 'cheapened' the whole proceedings after hearing 'Shaw's 'soulful' final dialogue, I felt...  (On top of this, I wasn't too impressed with the actual design of the creature that emerged.  Personally, I'd have liked to have seen something a bit more scary-looking and 'biomechanical' overall, than what we were shown.  And less 'fully-formed' too!) 

But rather than totally removing this scene, I prefer the notion of actually integrating it a little *sooner*, to keep the footage...

So here's how I'd like to see PROMETHEUS end instead -

...at some point after the 'Engineer' is overpowered and 'impregnated' by the giant 'squid', David alerts 'Shaw' that there are many other 'Engineer' spacecraft, and that he can operate one to get them out of their situation.  So she rides away from the crashed 'lifeboat' on a 'buggy' towards the crashed 'Engineer's craft in the distance...and eventually makes her way inside to retrieve David's bodyparts...

...then during their conversation aboard there, she ends up telling him - "I don't want to go back to where we came from...I want to go where *they* came from...you think you can do that David?..."  We then see a close-up of David as he eventually replies - "Yes, I believe I can...", before briefly fading to black...

...but at *this* point, I'd prefer to integrate the end 'birth'-scene of the 'proto-alien' here instead.  (Unlike the elegant life-stages we saw in ALIEN, the ones in this movie seemed very haphazard where their look and growth-rate are concerned...so it's not too much of a stretch for me to have the 'proto-alien' emerge at this moment either.  And I'd certainly prefer to see it here, rather than have the movie finish on this particular footage!)

Since someone stuck it up, here's a recap of how it looks - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ssgazf_Hp9s

...and when the creature's 'roar' ends and the scene fades to black, we'd *then* cut back to seeing 'Shaw' lowering David's body out of the 'Engineer's craft, before his severed head asks her - "May I ask what you hope to achieve by going there?, and she then answers - "They created us...then they tried to kill us.  They changed their minds...I deserve to know why..."

...and as we then see the 'buggy' head away from the crashed 'Engineer's craft, and towards the 'pyramid'-domes...we'd now end the movie on a more 'poetic' note as we hear 'Shaw's voice saying - "Final report of the vessel PROMETHEUS...the ship and her entire crew are gone...if you are receiving this transmission, make no attempt to come to it's point of origin...there's only death here now, and I'm leaving it behind...it's New Years Day, the year of our Lord , 2094...my name is Elizabeth Shaw, last survivor of the PROMETHEUS...and I'm still searching...", as we see the final image of a distant 'Engineer' craft passing through the clouds and accelerating past a huge ringed planet in the distance...

...we then fade to black as the end credits begin.

(And although the crashed 'Engineer's craft was far enough away from the crashed 'lifeboat' for Shaw's 'buggy' ride at the end to avoid an encounter with the newly-born 'proto-alien'...who knows whether it eventually managed to follow them and sneak onto the craft they took off in, or not?...)  ;)

Considering that the 'space suit' is biomechanical in nature I have no problem with it having teeth.

My trousers aren't biomechanical but the zip has teeth (which is why it's not wise to fasten in haste).

As a side note the film seems to revolve around people making giant assumptions which are taken as fact.

They are there because a glyph in some pictorial depictions (but not all of them) shows a pattern of dots which are interpreted as a star map (no not a map, an invitation) but where's the evidence?

They could just be dots and the aliens being there could be a cosmic coincidence.

Then the Captain pulls the idea it's a weapons research base out of his hat and the film runs with that.

Suddenly Shaw proclaims that we did something wrong and our creators (another lucky guess?) changed their minds about us and wanted to kill us.

There is no evidence for any of this in the film other than what is said by these very unprofessional professionals.

It could be that we are an unfinished project.

Perhaps we are parts for a machine or maybe we are their successors and we need further upgrading (which is what the goo is meant for).

Maybe the goo in the shrine wasn't meant for us or was meant for us but because they went in with their suits on or with the helmets off the crew screwed up the engineers Christmas present for us.

All wild stabs in the dark but it makes as much sense as those announced by the characters in the film.

At no point does anyone ask Shaw where this information is coming from or speculate differently.

She's the expert so what she says must be accurate right?.

Vickers is only skeptical about what she says until the alien complex is revealed to be alien and then she never questions Shaw's ideas again.

And she isn't even a scientist, she's some idiot who thinks half a billion miles is an interstellar distance.

georgec said:

^ Can someone summarize that in a sentence?

I tried at the time, but found it kinda restricted a lot of my points. *shakes fist*

Bingowings said:

Considering that the 'space suit' is biomechanical in nature I have no problem with it having teeth.

Just a pity the ones in PROMETHEUS turned out to be more 'gumsy'-looking than the one seen in ALIEN, however.

Again, a lot of good points there Bingowings...and judging by your insightful suggestions on page 20, I sure wish you could have had a word with the makers before they released this thing!

I wonder if the sequels will continue to confound (and dumbfound!) as much as this movie seems to have done?

Anyway, the 'virals' keep on coming - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5uJPvMokuc

You know the film is in trouble when they have to release a 'story patch' in the form of viral marketing to explain how Shaw can sprint, leap and climb with only minor signs of discomfort shortly after major abdominal surgery (I assume the bit about artificial muscles is an attempt to address this plot glitch).

I don't think I'm at all interested in seeing this movie anymore.

In defense of the opening scene, it is the best scene in the film, it's the one scene that makes the most cinematic and narrative sense, it's beautiful and unique to this film.

So that poses a problem if you want to move it... where?

It has to be the opening scene.

Now some may say it reveals the Jockey's true form too soon but if you remove the surplus to requirements head revival scene the only time we know for sure that the baldies are the elephant trunk guys wearing a skull helmet is when the chair powers up.

Why an archaeologist would want to contaminate a site and the ship by bringing back a biological sample makes no sense.

I could see her bagging a tablet or an object (like an urn, if she didn't know it's contents or it appeared empty) but surely a decapitated head would be something an unethical biologist might have sneaked in.

It makes Shaw seem to be similar to David who in total disregard to the safety of his Creator (he might not like him but his hotwired to obey him) brings back the urn and tests it on Holloway but seeing as we are not meant to have the same relationship between these characters it could be removed but then you would have to also trim the storm scene (either giving her something else to go back for or cut that cliched aspect of the scene altogether).

DuracellEnergizer said:

I don't think I'm at all interested in seeing this movie anymore.

It's worth watching. Just don't expect coherent plotting. Or coherent characters. Or coherent themes. Or coherent science.

Or you could skip it.

I wonder if the 'extended' version scenes will help certain things seem less illogical or not.  I have my doubts.

Here's Hitler's take on things - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3BV2u8YWps

Should we start referring to the Alien as a Xenumorph now?

       I like the Engineer dissolution as the first image. The Weyland addressing the crowd in the 2020s would work great after that, imo. ALIENS had an unavoidable prologue to account for Ripley that worked quite well, but I believe the true opening of the movie was the SULACO and the waking from hibernation.

       PROMETHEUS would have done well (if a bit confusing) as the first in the franchise. With no annoying fanboy expectations, everyone could settle down and enjoy the set-up to take us to the great mysterious beyond. PROMETHEUS seems meant to transition between ALIEN and what came before and long after. The first of this series seems to be more related to what came before and after rather than to ALIEN.

I've been giving this a bit more thought recently.

I would have had the dissolution scene, cut straight to the ship, have the Isle Of Skye scene play as Holloway's dream, have Shaw's phone call to Weyland play as Vickers' dream that way you'd have three dreams which would be about Shaw and her relationship to the crew.

I would have showed the TED talk instead of Lawrence Of Arabia on David's 'home cinema'.

I would have cut the briefing, cut the need to pretend that Weyland is dead and have Fifield and Milburn attacked when they all went inside the head chamber the first time.

In the trailers we see the same 'chalice' from the beginning in the position of the mysterious green jewel. I'd put that back.

Lose the bringing back of the engineer's head.

Have the urn the only artifact retrieved.

That way we learn that the Jockey head is a space suit mask when it is lowered over the engineer.

I'd have the Fifield Mutant and Holloway killed in the same scene and have Shaw in the medpod when David and Weyland have their chat with the engineer.

She could be ejected inside it before the crash cutting from the birth scene straight to the fight for survival (no giant squid fight just a modified face hugger on the engineer would be enough).

Shaw makes no assumptions about the engineers changing their minds about us.

This makes their actions totally inscrutable and alien.

It might make for a very short film though.

This dream was brought to you by - Weyland Corp.

have Shaw's phone call to Weyland play as Vickers' dream

This is an interesting idea if coupled with the intent to present Vickers as an Android - Given that the clip is clearly some sort of computerized analysis. The Yutani branding could also imply that maybe she's a double agent of sorts? Might add some context to her 'agenda' 

I did a little tinkering to get an effect like we see in Shaw's dream but haven't quite got decent results. In the end I'd probably ditch that scene anyway / maybe replace it with something else - although I did like Patrick Wilson as the dad...I kinda felt like he was only there so you feel upset later when David talks about him...it felt kinda awkward. isn't Ebola rare these days? - and the character would have to have died somewhere after approx 2070. - haven't done the proper math [assuming Shaw is the same age as Noomi Rapace - 32 and he was a live when she was a young girl] 

Although that brings up another interesting point - does age matter in a story where characters routinely use stasis?

I was also thinking about using the 2033 clip as an alternate main title sequence - maybe adding some wierd filtering to appear to be poorly preserved archival footage, kinda like a movie set now using stock footage from the 1950's. maybe something like this - 

I'd definitely remove the original opening / title reveal for a few reasons - 

1 - it's not interesting to me to see characters speculating / debating things that we've already seen presented as fact

2 - i dislike that the title sequence mimicks the first film. The other films in the saga have interesting title sequences and it feels like a rehash.

3 - the character of the selfless engineer seems at odds with everything else we see in the film.

I'm not sure if I like the idea of Vickers being an android.

I quite like the idea of her acting like one because that's what her father responds better to (a human making herself in the image of an android made in the image of humanity).

It might be fun to reveal that there is more than one David on board by compositing footage from one scene into another.

That way we could have a 'nicer David' who is interested in humanity and a more literally obedient slave who spikes Holloway's drink etc.

There could be a bit of ambiguity at the end regarding which one Shaw has left with.

That could be interesting, there's more than enough footage of David.

Bingowings said:

In the trailers we see the same 'chalice' from the beginning in the position of the mysterious green jewel. I'd put that back.

Some nice ideas again for what might have been, Bingowings.  I definately wish you'd been the one to come up with the plotting in this case, rather than Lindelof and Ridley!

I'm still scratching my head as to why that 'chalice' bowl got switched to a 'green crystal' in the first place.  I wonder if it was just a last-minute 'visual' thing with no real reason, or not?...just like a lot of other moments in this movie seemed to be.

I think there was a last minute rethink.

The elder Engineers were dropped at the last minute which makes me wonder if "who made them?" is now a question with a less divine answer than 'the big guy upstairs' implied in the original script.

It's possible that the line about the place being a weapons production facility was dropped in, it seems out of place to me and isn't backed up by any evidence.

I think originally the pyramid was were we were to get our reward for making it this far (in the form of taking the next step and taking the Engineers place).

The cup then makes sense.

We become them and like them have to make the occasional sacrifice to replenish the cosmic garden.

But something went wrong and the gardeners were killed by their own fertiliser.

When that line changed the cup had to go so it was replaced by the Kryptonite pebble (the Engineers theme reminded me of the Krypton theme from Donner's Superman).

Bingowings said:

I'm not sure if I like the idea of Vickers being an android.

I quite like the idea of her acting like one because that's what her father responds better to (a human making herself in the image of an android made in the image of humanity).

It might be fun to reveal that there is more than one David on board by compositing footage from one scene into another.

That way we could have a 'nicer David' who is interested in humanity and a more literally obedient slave who spikes Holloway's drink etc.

There could be a bit of ambiguity at the end regarding which one Shaw has left with.

What's odd is the way she slams David up against the wall, when we see him show off superhuman strength. Maybe she just caught him off guard?

The clip of Shaw is a pretty different aspect ratio to the actual film - pretty tall. Not sure how you'd include it. Maybe side by side but that might be overkill - 4 Shaws...

- there will probably be more viral clips released before the bluray, we've seen two since release already. Weyland muttering to himself and some doctor talking about the magical properties of the medpod.

Also noticed the date on the clip is 2079 - that would make sure about 18 at the time. That also means they've been hounding Weyland for years and probably had quite a few discoveries at that point.

I would think that she probably wouldn't have learned that she couldn't have children until she tried, but they never really explore that idea. not in any interesting way, anyhow. Would she really be planning the family in the middle of travelling the globe digging through caves? and in 2079 she should be too young to be concerned with such things..

it really does feel like they threw ideas into a hat and pulled them out randomly. 

Somebody said the other day that the creatures in the film all seems to have features we'd identify with marine life / sea creatures. I hadn't really thought about it until then. The chestburster has a fin, the snake / worm has a hammerhead, there's a squid...

I wonder if it's an indication of a radically changed setting or just an interesting design concept..