Monty Python and the Holy Grail -- 1975 theatrical (on hiatus - lots of info) — Page 2

Wow, thanks for both.  I was definitely cutting in the wrong place!  Oh well, time to start over! ;)

EDIT: Looks like the audio cutover and video cutover are not in the same place!  Tricky, but I think I can swing it.

I'll figure more out as I work with the audio.  Right now I'm cutting the video because that's the really hard and time-consuming bit, and I'll leave audio alone until the video is done (the computer is totally bogged down with that job).  To me, it sounds like the sound editor simply took the first few seconds of audio from the deleted scene, and put that onto the first few seconds of the following scene so that they just blended together.  However I'm a little concerned that they may have also added an echo effect and a fade in to better match the existing dialogue.

According to the progress bar on my computer, I should be done cutting the video sometime next week ;)

In the meantime, it may be worth trying to compile audio tracks from the earlier DVD releases (English, French, Japanese and Portuguese, maybe even commentaries, if anyone has them), in case I need to use them to cover the transition.  And really I don't need the whole thing, just maybe ten seconds per language, beginning just before the cut and ending ten seconds later.  Otherwise I'll do the best I can with the English audio and will probably simply not do the rest.

Interesting about the Japanese track...ugh.  As for versions, I'll take what I can get: Laser and DVD being preferred in case I have to use the segment for something other than reference (I'm still holding out hope I'll just be able to stitch it all together from the Blu Ray audio so I don't have to do any level matching or anything, but you never know).

Anyway, ten seconds of lossless or lossy from any digital source would be grand, as long as it spans the cut as I described above.  I would like a better audio reference than YouTube ;)

Use shift-enter instead of enter.

Rick2525 said:

Robocop 1 - oar 1.66:1

first DVD (Criterion 1998) was oar 1.66:1 non-anamorphic, but has a full-bodied 2.0 soundtrack (great for when ED-209 shoots its guns off etc)

later DVDs/BluRays are now cropped at 1.78:1 and the 5.1 mix is pitiful (even with .1 subwoofer channel), like Terminator 1's remix etc

As I understand it, it was originally screened in 1.85:1 but 1.66:1 is Verhoeven's preferred ratio. The original mix on Robocop is great and was one of the first films with Dolby Stereo SR - Spectral Recording, the Region 1 MGM 20th anniversary DVD and Fox blu-ray seems to have the original mix in the form of a Dolby 4.0 track, why there's no LFE, I don't know.

SilverWook said:

In the case of Kubrick, it gets complicated. IIRC, there is a storyboard glimpsed on the Blu Ray supplements for The Shining that clearly shows the intended theatrical ratio. Might be some framing marks on a playback monitor as well.

Yes, I recall the intended ratio for The Shining was 1.85:1 according to that storyboard. I think the latest video release is in 1.78:1 instead of 1.85:1, don't you still see those helicopter blades in the opening? An interesting article related to this discussion: http://www.hdvision-mag.com/2012/03/was-the-terminator-shown-in-two-different-formats.html

Not to worry, the OAR argument (for this project anyway...) is already over and 1.66:1 has won the day.  As for rendering the video, a few days ago I mentioned it may be done by "next week"... well, it's still grinding away, but so slowly that I think that was terribly optimistic, and I don't think I'll be making any more predictions.  I'll just notify everyone when the video is done and then I'll start working on the audio.

EDIT: I had mentioned thinking of doing Superman next, but it appears there would be a lot more involved than just deleting the extra scenes, and I don't think I'm really up for that.

The beginning/end frames are all I really need for cutting, and I certainly hope I've already got that covered.  Framing differences don't interest me very much--as far as I can tell, all the technical aspects of the Sony transfer were done to very high standards and I'm not inclined to second-guess any of them.  It's really just the content changes that concern me.

All I really need at this point is some sound samples that bridge the cut, so I can either re-create it using the Blu Ray audio, or splice it into the Blu Ray audio to cover the transition, whichever ends up working best.  Besides, the dubs & subs angle is where things can get really fun, assuming it works at all.

Re: Superman, you may be right.  I seem to have missed this.  Yet another boxed set I need to buy just for one disc... which I suppose was the whole point... grr...

SilverWook said:

No problem. Since I don't know what form the Japanese preservation is going to take, I wanted to have some other video sources as they were cheap to get.

I like the print Criterion used, as it's a bit Grindhouse. Cue marks at reel changes, and a little scratchy in places. It may be the only video release that doesn't just fade to black over the ending organ music.

If you're after the Superman DVD set, I've seen it for dirt cheap in the clearance bins at clothing stores like Ross.

I'd love to try to use the preserved Japanese track if I can get it to sync well with my trimmed Blu (can't necessarily say it won't drift by a few frames here and there, but I'll certainly try...).

SilverWook said:

Mono sound was 192kps, although the sound seems lower than on later releases.

I'm hoping even though this is lossy (so is the Blu Ray's mono track for that matter), this one will be the best match in the event I need to splice in a sample from another source.

It's not uncommon for early DVDs to just recycle LD transfers. Surprised because I thought since Columbia did their own LD afterwards that they wouldn't have just licensed the Criterion transfer. LDDB lists the Columbia LD at 1.75:1 instead of 1.85:1, but that could either be a re-crop or submission error.

The mono track is probably untouched which is why it would seem softer. The later releases will be highly equalized, scrubbed, compressed and tinny. Thus they seem louder at first listen. The former is how Get Carter is on DVD, an original mono track @ 192 kbp/s unfutzed with and in a very low 1.0 track. 

Kubrick's films never stop being fascinating...even their ratios...I refuse to see Strangelove at a flat 1.66:1, though it looked fine theatrically this way. I just got used to the alternating 1.33/1.66 ratios. He also used this on the Criterion Lolita LD, but I've yet to see that. The Criterion 1.66:1 framings of The Killing and Paths of Glory are fantastic looking after years of worn VHS and undefined MGM DVDs. But both framings work, like Night of the Hunter.

The Shining I think looks fine in any matte, but the 1.85 works best overall. And 2001 was still 2.21:1 on all 35mm prints.

Barry Lyndon is the only one I can't decide on. 1.66 or 1.75? I think 1.66:1 is what it was really composed for, but Kubrick wrote letters proclaiming the intended ratio of 1.75. In any case, the Blu-ray is still cropped form the intended image.

Thanks SilverWook.  By the way, the "progress bar" on the video end shows more time remaining than when I started, so it's slow-going.  I suppose this is why people buy real computers, but that's too late for me!