Nice call, Warbler — Page 2

But dude, Shinzon and the Remans went back in time and killed Kirk's dad, so it makes sense that Spock's character is now completely different. Didn't you watch the movie?

;)

I would love to listen to Went Back In Time And Killed Kirk's Dad by Shinzon And The Remans.

Sinzon should have been called Dracip Cul-Naej. What a missed opportunity.

I probably will never see this reboot. I can't stand Zachary Quinto.

Pon farr. Wooooo!

They should make a spin-off Jersey Shore-esque soap Trek series that takes place on Vulcan and features young Vulcans constantly fighting with their emotional sides. Star Trek: Pon Farr. I see a winner.

CP3S said:

Pon farr. Wooooo!

 

They should make a spin-off Jersey Shore-esque soap Trek series that takes place on Vulcan and features young Vulcans constantly fighting with their emotional sides. Star Trek: Pon Farr. I see a winner.

Two men enter. One man leaves.

and then later the other man leaves.

SilverWook said:

Warbler said:

the only real problem I had with the 2009 movie was the Spock/Uhura relationship.  It seems very out of character for a logical and unemotional Vulcan. 

Half Vulcan.

again with the half Vulcan stuff.   From what I know, Vulcans naturally have emotions.  They become logical and unemotional through training and discipline.  Therefore, since Spock when through the training and discipline, the fact that he is half human is meaningless. 

SilverWook said:

And having a thing for human females runs in the family.

I presume you were talking about Spock's father, Sarek.    Him being married human was explained.  Sarek was an ambassador, marrying a human allowed him to learn and understand them better.   It was logical. 

SilverWook said:

Uhura was flirting with Spock in "The Man Trap". That scene was cut from syndication prints for decades.

true, but they never ended up in a relationship. 

SilverWook said:

Spock seemed kind of emotional, and even smiled in "The Cage".

at that time, they were still developing the character.  

SilverWook said:

He has never been an unemotional character. He's just pretty good at concealing his emotions most of the time. That internal struggle with his human half is one thing that makes him more interesting.

true, but wouldn't concealing his emotions also mean concealing any feelings he has for women?  

SilverWook said:

A plot point that is sometimes overlooked in TMP is Spock's realization after his mind meld with V'Ger. "Logic is not enough." In this new timeline, he may have had that epiphany sooner.

sorry not buying it.   And even have TMP, Spock never had a relationship. 

To me it just doesn't make sense to have him acting logical and unemotional, but then go have this romantic relationship with Uhura.  

Jay said:

SilverWook said:

Warbler said:

the only real problem I had with the 2009 movie was the Spock/Uhura relationship.  It seems very out of character for a logical and unemotional Vulcan. 

Half Vulcan. And having a thing for human females runs in the family.

Uhura was flirting with Spock in "The Man Trap". That scene was cut from syndication prints for decades. If Nurse Chapel is in the next movie, and still has a thing for guys with pointed ears in this timeline, there could be trouble. ;)

Spock seemed kind of emotional, and even smiled in "The Cage". He has never been an unemotional character. He's just pretty good at concealing his emotions most of the time. That internal struggle with his human half is one thing that makes him more interesting.

A plot point that is sometimes overlooked in TMP is Spock's realization after his mind meld with V'Ger. "Logic is not enough." In this new timeline, he may have had that epiphany sooner.

Exactly. There's also "Amok Time", which has Spock acting like a psycho in heat, "killing" Kirk for the sake of a woman (relationship!), and then being completely elated when he finds out that Kirk is still alive--big beaming Vulcan smile and all.

Vulcans have never been without emotion. They just bury it, and sometimes it comes out.

yes, they bury their emotions.  They are ashamed and embarrassed at showing emotion.  So why is Spock in a romantic relationship?   That doesn't seem like burying emotion to me.

Warbler said:

SilverWook said:

Spock seemed kind of emotional, and even smiled in "The Cage".

at that time, they were still developing the character.  

       ^This

In fact, I agree with Warb on all points, this was just the one point I was going to post myself.

CP3S said:

In fact, I agree with Warb on all points

*is shocked, has heart attack and dies*

timdiggerm said:

Warbler said:

SilverWook said:

Warbler said:

the only real problem I had with the 2009 movie was the Spock/Uhura relationship.  It seems very out of character for a logical and unemotional Vulcan. 

Half Vulcan.

again with the half Vulcan stuff.   From what I know, Vulcans naturally have emotions.  They become logical and unemotional through training and discipline.  Therefore, since Spock when through the training and discipline, the fact that he is half human is meaningless. 

On the biological level, it may or may not be important. But on the psychological level, it is. He's always known that he's half-human, and thus has some amount of curiosity about his emotions, given that one of his parents doesn't repress. He wants to repress like other Vulcans... but sometimes he wonders.

but would he really wonder to the point of having a romantic relationship?

timdiggerm said:

SilverWook said:

Uhura was flirting with Spock in "The Man Trap". That scene was cut from syndication prints for decades.

true, but they never ended up in a relationship. 

And Vulcan was never destroyed either. This right here is an alternate timeline. The attraction is there, as the characters are mostly still themselves, but differing events result in differing outcomes.

the relationship with Uhura clearly started before Vulcan was destroyed.   I also somehow don't see how the destruction of Vulcan would cause Spock to abandon his Vulcan heritage of logic by having a romantic relationship.  If anything, I think the destruction of Vulcan would do the opposite.   I would think the destruction of Vulcan would make Spock to want to be more Vulcan then ever before.   He'd be one of the few Vulcans left, and he'd want the Vulcan heritage culture preserved. 

Yes, I can see how the differing timeline can cause Spock to be different, but is this the Spock we really want?   A Spock that would engage in romance?   I'm sorry I but I prefer the original Spock.   I like my Spock logical and and unemotional. 

timdiggerm said:

SilverWook said:

Spock seemed kind of emotional, and even smiled in "The Cage".

at that time, they were still developing the character.  

Clearly you've never run into the fans who rationalize every bizarre inconsistency in TOS into canon. I can talk about this if you want.

please do.   

timdiggerm said:

SilverWook said:

He has never been an unemotional character. He's just pretty good at concealing his emotions most of the time. That internal struggle with his human half is one thing that makes him more interesting.

true, but wouldn't concealing his emotions also mean concealing any feelings he has for women?  

Yeah, if he was a good Vulcan.

so now we have to make Spock into a bad Vulcan

timdiggerm said:

SilverWook said:

A plot point that is sometimes overlooked in TMP is Spock's realization after his mind meld with V'Ger. "Logic is not enough." In this new timeline, he may have had that epiphany sooner.

sorry not buying it.   And even have TMP, Spock never had a relationship. 

To me it just doesn't make sense to have him acting logical and unemotional, but then go have this romantic relationship with Uhura.  

As much as I see where you're coming from, I think it works.

and I think it doesn't work.   I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

Anchorhead said:

Warbler said:

 Him being married human was explained.  Sarek was an ambassador, marrying a human allowed him to learn and understand them better.   It was logical. 

Yes it was. He confesses to Spock that the real reason he married her was because he loved her.  It had nothing to do with logic.

He also tells him not to ignore his human side, and that emotions run deep in Vulcans - often times much deeper than in humans.

he did?  When did Sarek do this?  and btw, I don't count the books as cannon. 

Anchorhead said:

Yes, we see a slightly different Spock than in TOS, but we're also seeing him much earlier in life.  I have no problem at all with how he is portrayed.  Quinto is outstanding in the role.

then I guess we will never agree on this.   I like my Spock logical and unemotional.    I am too much of an old school Trek fan to be changed on this. 

ok, can you tell me what film? 

oh, the 2009 movie.  that is explains why I had forgotten what Sarek said there.   I haven't watched that movie anywhere near as many times as I've watched the originals. 

I suppose you can come up with all kinds of logical reasons to explain the differences between this Spock and original, but I still like my Spock logical and unemotional.  

Quinto's Spock > Nimoy's 2009 Spock?   Sorry  but no way could any Quinto Spock could be >  any Nimoy Spock, even  Nimoy's 2009 spock.