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Post #57504

Author
INv8r_ZIM
Parent topic
A Picture is worth a thousand words...
Link to post in topic
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/57504/action/topic#57504
Date created
3-Aug-2004, 8:08 AM
Okay, I've got to de-lurk here because I can't stand another 6 years of ignorant fanboys bitching about ILMs work on TPM and AotC. The Matrix and the LotR movies get a DISTINCT handicap in their use of CG. Look again carefully at where they employ it. By FAR its in foggy, dark, or near dark conditions, and, largely with Gollum, shot with a shakey handheld style (the monolgue excepted). Lucas, on the other hand, has asked ILM to produce medium to close CG character work in full sun, over long steady, or tracking shots. I'm an animator, (working in Maya, mostly using Mental Ray to output), and I PROMISE you, these are MUCH more favorable conditions to try and composite work into. They also hide flaws in the digital work like anything. I'm not saying the work in LotR wasn't great, WETA did a terrific job with those films, I'm saying what you are looking at in the PT has to be considered in terms of what the shot is. WETA also got VERY fortunate in being able to MOCAP most of their characters (when they don't, like say, Treebeard, they end up with the same problems ILM does, only they're allowed to hide it in the dark), and had a terrific physical performer in Andy Serkiss. Sadly, no actor is like 500 pounds with four arms, so even minor characters, bipeds even, like Dex, had to be hand animated. This isn't as fluid as MOCAP (and there's a whole WORLD of debate about whether THAT'S a good thing or not...if you put Pixar's stuff up against live action footage, it would be OBVIOUSLY more stylized and cartoony than MOCAP...that's a GOOD thing), but it sure as hell beats the Chess pieces from ANH, or the TaunTaun work in Empire, and I'd put the walk cycle of the AT-TE up against the walkers any day. It's more nuanced, heavier, and complex. It plays better. I dearly love that OT work, but imagine for a second that ILM had done the CG shots it has in the PT using, say Stop or Go-Motion people seems to hold as superior to any and all CG. First, most of those shots wouldn't be possible. Second, you'd all be bitching and moaning about how dated and fake it looked.
As for everything being CG, how many times has it been said that already, ILM has constructed and used more miniatures and models on the PT by far, than on the OT films combined? Have you even LOOKED at the sheer number of masks and costumes produced for these shows? Did you see the model of the Geonosisan arena? It's the HUGE fucking red, minutely detailed thing, if you somehow missed it. How about the Pod Race stand? The effects directors and TDs on these films are aware that CG has a place, along with more traditional practical effects. Again, Lucas is tasking ILM with creating a MASSIVE number of shots on these films, with a mindboggling number of them being bright daylight and close to medium framing. Not to take anything away frokm WETA, but you simply cannot compare this stuff to distance night shots of orc armies and Gollum in the fog.
There is a huge degree of nostalgia for the films effects of the past which simply cannot be supported logically. We love them, but seriously, objectively look at the OT's effects. You KNOW those are models, YOU can PLAINLY SEE through the plastic eyes on that cantina mask, and there are VISIBLE poles holding up the speeder bikes! It's all fake, and it's all pretty damn obvious when you know anything about how it was done. "Why, it's a whole movie made from a cartoon!"? Why, it's a whole movie made out of toys! The audience has become more sophisticated (in terms of spooting effects work, anyways...best to leave the rest of that statement alone for now), and people, especially geeks, are LOOKING for the visual effects labour now, instead of enjoying the damn movies. Often CG is not perfect, but to deny that it is an evolution, and in most cases and improvement on what came before is stubborn and asinine.


Okay, well, I guess that's enough of a rambling vent....let the flaming begin.