darth_ender said:

I can't help but worry that somehow what I feel was a very sensible post will still somehow be misinterpreted and you will not even address the bulk of the post due to some phrase you find "childish" or inaccurate.

It is an unfounded worry. I haven't intentionally avoided addressing anything. I haven't said anything more about the eleven because you explained that my lines of questioning were not what this thread was for, and I conceded you were right. I am not out to offend you, and don't want to do so.

After reading your post last night and doing a lot of reading and googling of my own, I found Martin & Lucy Harris and the lost 116 pages particularly interesting (I have of course heard of the incident before, but it has been a while since I have actually looked at it in detail, rather than just coming across references to it and summaries of it in other works. In fact, last time I read about it in detail was before I even had access to the internet with the endless links and wealth of information and varying viewpoints it provides).

I was also kind of surprised to find via your links that the gold plates (if I am understanding what I am reading correctly), were not actually physically seen by the witnesses in person (including Martin, who was transcribing for Smith as he translated them), but rather through visions. Did I misunderstand that? Smith was the only one who actually physically saw and handled them? I don't even know how to begin to respond to that.