Star Wars Colortiming & Cinematography (was What changes was done to STAR WARS in '93?) — Page 6

In the thread for DJ's project, I went into an aside about the 70mm film cell scans on Jedi1.net (specifically the ones from Empire), and how they probably don't reflect the actual color timing of the films. I surmise that they may have been auto-corrected or otherwise post-processed after scanning. However, I found some interesting photos of other 70mm cells someone was selling on eBay, which are the best-illuminated digital camera snapshots I've ever seen of these. However they were lit for the photos, the clear areas look neutral white, and so the colors seen in these pictures *may* more closely reflect the colors on the actual film frame.

The bacta tank wide shot (notice the Eastman stamp on the left - could this be LPP?):

For comparison, here's the Jedi1.net scan of the same scene:

Notice how in the top image, the ceiling isn't as green. To me, the top looks more balanced than the bottom.

Here's a rather muted and white-looking Hoth:

Echo Base interior, slightly bluish but also fairly muted:

Leia in Luke's recovery room:

Notice how it's not as yellow-greenish as the Jedi1.net image:

A good-looking cell of Vader - look at how those red lights pop:

"He doesn't want you at all, he's after somebody called, uh, Skywalker!"

The Falcon inside the "cave". The purplish cast suggests that this frame might have some fading (or it could be how it was illuminated, look at the blowout around the sprocket holes):

Another image from the same scene - yes, it's dark and blurry, but it doesn't look as purple, so the visible colors may be more accurate to what's actually on the film:

Unfortunately, some cells are definitely faded. All of the Yoda/Dagobah-related frames I've seen have apparently faded to reddish-brown (possibly sourced from Kodak SP?):

From another seller, Han and Chewie visit Luke in the recovery room. This pic is smaller and fuzzier than the ones above, but the illumination still looks pretty good:

Notice that once again, it isn't as yellow-green-y as the Jedi1.net image:

Luke after the infamous kiss:

More pink and less green than the Jedi1.net image (in fact, the pinkish highlights in the top picture kind of remind me of the theatrical bootleg telecine):

Another small, but surprisingly clear, image, this time of Vader and Captain Piett:

Luke in the Wampa's cave - notice that it's not as blue as in the bootleg telecine or the Puggo Strikes Back early preview, and that Luke's face isn't frostbite purple. Actually, it kind of reminds me of -1's color-corrected version, except with a little more blue than he was able to recover:

Han and the Falcon - again, a bit of a blue tinge evident, but not overpowering:

This other seller has more photos of other cells, but they're fuzzier and I'm not as sure about the color accuracy. Here they are anyway:

Here's a big (but unfortunately fuzzy) image from a third seller:

And from the first film, here's R2 and 3PO when Luke discovers Leia's message. This seems to have the most intact color of any 70mm cell of the first film I've seen so far. The warm golden cast reminds me of Mike Verta's snapshots from that IB print screening. (Hey Harmy, how does this pic compare to your IB scans?)

I'm really not sure how accurate the colors are in any of these pics; some of them don't seem to have any visible fading, while others do. I'm just putting them here because I don't often see images of the 70mm cells that look this good.

It's not the brightness of the eBay photo I think is more accurate, it's the color. No version I've ever seen has as much green as the Jedi1.net image. All of the Jedi1 scans of the hospital scenes seem to have a yellow-green cast to the whole image, including skin tones.

And as far as the JSC Empire goes, to my eye it's too yellow as a whole. Even if Hoth isn't as blue as some of us might have thought, I really don't think it's as neutral as in the JSC. Also, to provide another example, 3PO looks too pure yellow to me, almost tending toward greenish - basically, the color of a certain bodily fluid. He's not yellow, he's gold (with a bit of a brass/bronze tinge). Skimming through the whole film, I keep finding scenes where something looks too yellow.

 

feel free to correct, and post results.

later

-1

Hey -1, I agree with the other posters that I would be happy to watch this capture of star wars 'raw' just because theres so much saturation left in the print. Through my monitor (and in part I'm guessing due to the reduction business) the frames have a red 'burnished' look...

Edit* I tried some color correction but realized just enlarging the frames and maybe doing auto-white balance is enough for me.

negative1 said:

going back a little further..

the rebels on the cruiser. before

the battle: 70 frames, sampled every 10

-----

 

later

-1

 

Looks so much better with white walls :-)

Wow - this is proof that even as late as 1989, new prints that were intended for projection still had the original "warm" theatrical color timing. Obviously, it doesn't look like, say, the IB Tech screening Mike Verta went to, because it's on different stock, the print is tungsten-balanced for Super 8 projectors, the white balance of the digital camera may have affected how the colors came out in these photos (I've seen other Derann screengrabs that are either colder or warmer), and probably other variables as well.

Still, Mike's screenshots, the LPP print, the least faded of the 70mm film cells, and these Derann images all have certain color traits that reflect the way the film was timed back in '77.

Someone in Italy was selling a Derann print last year, and posted some screenshots on his blog: http://passionesuper8.blogspot.com/2011/09/star-wars-episode-iva-new-hope.html

They look a little cooler, with some blue-green tendencies that remind me of the Senator images. Still, I bet if you were to run these two Derann prints side-by-side in the same room on identical projectors, they'd look the same.

Some more film cell images I found on eBay, this time from the first film. These are a higher resolution than the ones I posted before, but lighting is  much more uneven - you can see that the person who took the photos was shining a flashlight down onto the cells, so some parts will look blown out, others look too dark/translucent (and you can often see the texture of the white bedsheet under the cell). Some of the images have similar greenish tendencies to the Jedi1.net scans, others don't.

R2 and 3PO - same shot as in my earlier post, the colors seem to match:

"There's nothing you could have done." Same scene as one of the Derann images above:

Preparing to completely blow away Alderaan. Lots of warm golden yellow on the button lights:

Luke has a bad feeling about this. Unfortunately, the light source is too concentrated, so the image is way too blown out in the middle. Not sure if the greenish look is due to fading or too much illumination. The colors on the right edge look good, though:

"This is some rescue!" Again, some blowout and greenish highlights (though it's certainly not as green as some of the Jedi1 scans of Death Star scenes):

Red Leader:

From another seller, Ben Kenobi heading for the tractor beam, with a definite yellow-green cast. Not sure if this is due to fading, or due to the camera white balance - it's warmer than the Jedi1 scans, but still, I think it's *too* yellow-green:

Another seller posted some images which are strangely lit - they seem to be backlit, but the light is some kind of rectangular shape positioned at an angle so that part of the image is blown out, and part is too dim.

Leia captured - wow, that's blown out. It looks cold where the light is strongest, but you can see yellow and green and cyan tendencies on the right side where there's not as much light:

"Secret mission? What plans? What are you talking about? I'm not getting in there!"

The Jawas - a nice reddish-gold hue, it feels right to me:

Another seller's photo - this one of Leia and R2. Looks too cool?

A big, sharp, high-res image of Luke, Ben and R2:

Notice how close the color is to this photo Mike took at that IB screening (though his seems a little more muted):

Some more big, high-res photos. First, the Death Star conference room:

It's got some yellow-green in the walls and uniforms, but notice how much better the skin tones look, and how generally warmer it looks, than the Jedi1 scans from this same scene:

Han introduces himself - pretty strong golden yellow cast here:

Chewie in the cockpit. Seems too yellow-green:

Vader grills Leia on the Tantive. Again with the odd light source, not sure what to make of this image:

R2 in the Sandcrawler - again, it has that warm look Mike has talked about, but the photo is kind of soft and there aren't many distinct colors visible, so again I'm not sure what to make of it:

Luke takes his first step into a larger world. Nice and warm, natural skin tones, this is another one that looks about perfect to me:

Just found this one from Empire. Looks pretty blue (ignore the reflections):

Also missed this very good pic of an Empire cell - Lando invites our heroes for a little refreshment:

OK, that's about all the legible film cell images I've been able to find. Sorry, no Jedi, every single cell is faded.

As to the first image, the film cells are visible from both the front and the back of the package, and this photo was taken from the back side. That's why it's flipped.

That picture was originally posted by Mike in the Despecialized Edition thread.

Here are the other images from the screening which he posted there:

Mike's original posts are in pages 122 and 123 of the thread. He explains more about the screening, how warm projector bulbs were in the 70s, and how the same print projected with modern lighting looks different:

http://originaltrilogy.com/FORUM/topic.cfm/Harmys-STAR-WARS-Despecialized-Edition-HD-AVCHD-DVD9-and-NTSC-DVD5-AVAILABLE-see-1st-post/topic/12713/page/122/

http://originaltrilogy.com/FORUM/topic.cfm/Harmys-STAR-WARS-Despecialized-Edition-HD-AVCHD-DVD9-and-NTSC-DVD5-AVAILABLE-see-1st-post/topic/12713/page/123/