TheBoost said:

walking_carpet said:

oh, man, I dunno...it would have been really difficult to picture luke still thinking vader had good in him at the start of jedi.

maybe....maybe the forgiveness angle could have been pulled off at the end of jedi. But not the benefit of the doubt part. Unless there was more footage of yoda and ben talking ot luke.

But doesn't Luke still have a lot to forgive even with Dad-Vader? His dad murdered his mentor, tortured all his pals, cut off his hand, and is a really bad guy.

If Luke only forgives him because it's his dad, that seems selfish. But (it seems to me) he forgives Dad-Vader because he senses there is still good in him, regardless that it's his dad.

hmmm...i guess there's 3 parts - closure, forgiveness and then absolving someone. I first came to the concept of closure - which I assume is simply moving on - during the horrible columbine shootings and pending execution of timothy mcveigh. If you guys remember, this was a big theme in the media.

i don't think theres any absolving - not after episode III (which is why i strongly disapprove of hayden ghost). so back to forgiveness -theres one element im not sure you mentioned - does vader still threaten luke with taking leia away and turning her into the sith? because thats what set him off and made him take a firm stance.

if thats still in place, i think maybe luke offers closure but still not sure about forgiveness because his twin was under clear danger. it would take an unbelievable script and direction to pull that off. Are there any movies like this? probably not, cuz its too inconceivable. and Star Wars was already considered out of the box narratively speaking. i think dead man walking had this theme but i dont recall if the dad of the girl forgave sean penn's character.