[quote=xhonzi]
I'm not sure the movie is telling us that. Palpatine is telling Luke that. Palpatine also says it's Luke's destiny, he says that his place is at his side, he says that the Rebels won't win, he says that Luke has misplaced his faith in his friends. All of these things are proven untrue, why should the nature of Dark Side conversion be any different.
Yoda says there's a path to the Dark Side. Not a switch.
Besides, Luke used the Dark Side to beat Vader down and he didn't instantly become a Dark Side junkie. Yes, going all the way and murdering Vader would have been a more serious offense/commitment to the Dark Side. But I think Palpatine was really just playing head games with Luke.
I've met many who don't like the conceptualization I'm presenting, but in my experience, they don't consider this: Regardless of how you build the path to the Dark side, there has to be a point, narrative-wise, where you cross line and become a darksider. There has to be a point when you are no longer a Jedi. Which means that there will have to be a tipping point someplace.
Anakin, in the PT, did not fall when he murdered sentients using the Dark side. So when did he turn? When he pledged himself to Sidious? you can argue against that and say that it was actually when he killed children----yet he's crying after he killed the Separatist leaders, so maybe it was when he choked his wife. Even so, there's still a tipping point, a time in the narrative when we say that he is now, definitely, a darksider, no longer a Jedi.
Thus, the notion that there is something like a "gradual transformation" is no more true for Anakin in the PT than it is for Luke - both start tapping in to the Dark side, and in both cases there is a moment when we, as audience, will say - now he's a bad guy. I think it makes more sense that that moment is when the Force user murders someone in anger. It lets the Saga send a powerful moral message to the audience - murdering in anger is wrong, full stop! Vigilanteism is not the path of the Jedi.
Moreover, this is one area where Yoda's words about how the Force works does not in any way contradict the Emperor's words. So, both senior force users are effectively saying the same thing. So maybe they're not lying, eh? Moreover, the Emperor is a selective liar - just because he's lying about some things, does not mean that he's lying about everything. A competent manipulator can play head games very effectively with selective truths. Note also, that the Emperor is starting to treat Luke as his apprentice. So, yes, there are head games, but there are also truths.
Also, what happens with the dramatic tension in the scene itself without this setup?
Well, it's destroyed. There is none. If Luke can kill dad and the Emperor without becoming evil, then nothing is truly at stake here. Thus, the dramaturgy of the scene itself actually supports my conceptualization: the stakes are, objectively, higher, if Luke loses if he wins the fight, AND loses if he loses the fight. Indeed, this dramaturgy is so very Zen that I can't see how any other interpretation can be sustainable. Remember that just about everything Yoda says about the Force in ESB is based on Zen-buddhism/Daoism. And here we have a scene, where the key is to throw away your lightsaber, and find your harmony, and take non-action. Well, that's an embodiment of Wu Wei, one of the chief principles of Daoism.
I understand that that is one interpretation of how the Dark Side could work. But it's a very "I was possessed by the devil- I'm not responsible for my actions" kind of thing. Which greatly disinterests me. That's not seductive at all.
I think you'll find that fiction is full of a lot of that. Not an actual fall from grace, more like a snap of the fingers and somebody is evil. Or they're possessed, or they're controlled, or they're replaced by an evil twin. That's fine and it has its place... but I would rather see an evil actually corrupt a guy, not just control him.
I just can't buy that Luke would swear fealty to the Emperor after striking down Vader. If anything, his Dark Side rage would lead him to attack the Emperor. Maybe that battle would go on for a long time, The Emperor toying with Luke, and maybe Luke would continue to tap into more and more of the Dark Side and maybe then he would be ready to commit to it. But I think Luke's first reaction after the revenge/anger killing of his father would be strong amounts of both relief and regret. That's not the kind of emotion that would lead to immediately siding with your enemy.
So, why is Vader obeying the Emperor? He clearly doesn't like the old geezer. Why the line "You don't know the power of the dark side, I MUST obey my Master!" Vader is tying his servitude directly to the dark side itself. If the Dark side itself is not a temptation for a Jedi - then why should they be ware of it at all? And yet, they clearly stay away from it! Yoda doesn't say "Well, yeah, the dark side is kinda like TNT - handle it with care in a controlled environment". He clearly instructs Luke to stay well clear of it!
I think that if Luke killed his father, he would become his father - in the sense that his anger, hatred would take him over. He would not be sad, nor would he feel regret. He would feel even more anger and hatred and it would come to dominate him, just as it did his father. Heck, that's the entire point of the dialogue the two have throughout the fight - Vader's incapacity to "let go of this hate" - Luke even calls him on it! Luke would likely direct that at the Emperor, and try to attack him, only to lose, and be forced into servitude, there to bide his time in hatred and resentment, awaiting the moment when he could stab the Emperor in the back, Sith style.
Do not underestimate the destructive power of hatred...is really what SW is telling me, at least, in this powerful climax.