The Prequel Radical Redux Ideas Thread — Page 240

obikal said:

Absolutely, I will agree that a Jedi having a red lightsaber is a very radical idea for a fanedit. 

Personally, however, I am a fan of these visual cues, even such simplistic ones.  It would solidify his character to the audience at the end of the movie and show that it's tragic the good guys are fighting "another good guy" without having to say it again.  If he whipped out a red lightsaber, the average Star Wars audience member would think, "Oh, maybe he was bad this whole time..."  Then their Star Wars guru friend (everyone has one) would have to explain that just because it's red it doesn't mean he's bad... 

On that note, hypothetically, if you would keep the Episode 2 Geonosis arena with all of the Jedi, would you change some of their saber colors to red as well?  Would it be a normal choice at that point for Jedi or would it be something rare in the films, to see a Jedi with a red lightsaber (during this period in the Republic)?  I know the movies pretty well, but almost nothing of the EU so I don't know the details behind having red over the others - just curious.

Having said all that, fanedits aren't exactly for the average Star Wars audience member, are they, and this is the radical ideas thread...  ;)

Your Rogue Jedi idea for Dooku; is it similar to what I remember reading before/wrote above or was it something different?  I'd like to hear more about that if you have thought about it some more.

My ideas for Dooku aren't too different from what has been covered in the thread before, though I did come up with the concept independently. I would put back in his scene with Amidala where he tries to get her to join the Separatists, cut his duel with Yoda (Yoda should never be seen with a lightsaber. Wars not make one great.), and take out the scene between him and Sidious at the end of Ep2 (obviously). I'm definitely opposed to having them develop the Death Star (they're trying to secede, not conquer). This really isn't hard, per se, but just takes some smart editing. I'm uncertain if he should use Force lightning. I can see arguments for and against it.

Mostly, my ideas are aimed towards what can be accomplished without tons and tons of work. I'm not opposed to rotoscoping Dooku's saber a different color, but it's easier just to leave it as is. It's the same reason I call them the Trayd Federation. Simply changing the spelling in the crawl eliminates the need to redub anything. It's much smarter for the Trayd Federation to be talking with the Bann-Kin Union and the Kommers Guild. It would be easier to add a few red sabers when the Jedi take off their cloaks in the arena than it would be to change major fight scenes.

Regarding lightsabers, I'm not extensively versed in pre-OT, but from what I've read, it seems too regimented for my tastes. What the post-OT books talk about is that the construction of a lightsaber is one of the last tests before being declared a Knight, and the choice of the crystal is a deeply personal decision for the individual Jedi. Corran Horn's grandfather Nejaa Halcyon had one with a silver blade. Corran himself made one with multiple jewels that could double the length, and the blade itself was amethyst (I think). Leia's is red, though I'm not sure it counts because Luke made it for her.

One last note: Even if the average SW audience member might suspect Dooku as being bad, that's preferable to having it spelled out and would give a sense of intrigue to the character which provides depth. The viewer would wonder and think about the character and might even develop a viewpoint that he/she could defend passionately.

greenpenguino said:

obikal said:

Dethryl said:

...but I would definitely have Dooku as a rogue Jedi...

Thoughts?

(Sorry for the double post, but this is a separate issue so I wanted to separate them)

I saw the idea elsewhere on this site, so it's not my own, but I loved it.  (not sure what of the following, if any, is my idea, but want to give credit elsewhere just in case - the general idea is definitely not mine)

Dooku is a rogue Jedi, and actually not corrupt at all, (however, presented to the audience as bad in the beginning, an unknown entity) who senses the Sith in the Senate.  Dooku tries to warn the Jedi Council of this corruption but they don't sense it.  So, Dooku leaves the Order and then decides to (either of his own volition or by the influence of Palpatine - it doesn't even have to be defined though) start a Separatist faction that could battle the Senate and rid the Sith corruption from the Senate.  

Basically Dooku's speech to Ob-wan on Geonosis is true, and Dooku is on the right side.

Now, how much of his character has changed being a Rogue Jedi and no longer under the Order, is up for debate.  I think he would be a man who has had to make his own rules and rethink his beliefs after years of being "brainwashed" - from his point of view.  He would be a little impulsive, untrusting of any Jedi, yet reserved and contemplative at the same time.  Is the entire Jedi Order under the influence of the Sith?  How long has this been going on?  Is the Jedi Order in and of itself, evil and manipulative?  How much of his own training can he trust in?  These are the debates that would be constantly waging war in his own mind.

I would also have Dooku's lightsaber not be red...  this sort of man wouldn't adopt that color.  He might change his original to show his distancing from the Order, but not to red.  If it would be remotely applicable and accepted anywhere, purple COULD be used in this instance, however I'm still on the fence about that particular color.  And hey, this is the radical ideas thread  :)

Someone posted a video a while back of dooku with a white lightsaber. It was pretty cool and gave his character a little more ambiguity in terms of where his loyalties laid.

It was mine:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_On2GFOuIc

Personally, I finally decided the rogue Jedi plot never pays off. If you're going to go in that direction, it needs to be established at some point before the movies end that Dooku was truly trying to thwart a dark jedi in the Senate. You never get that, or is ever implied. Trust me, unless you shoot some new scenes with Ol' Chris, it will fall flat. Again, just my opinion.

After watching The Return Of Captain Invincible for the non existent lulz I did notice there were quite a few well delivered Christopher Lee lines which fit into the idiom of Dooku.

To be honest his delivery is the only thing of any value in that film and it deserves salvage (Frink can have fun with songs and sillier lines but some of the Lee's performance may be of use for more serious edits).

Haven't visited these boards in over a year now, but with TPM in theaters again, I finally got round to (trying to) edit the space battle at the end of TPM.

I always liked the design of TPM (not that there was anything else to like), especially the Naboo starfighters (visually and audibly) and the "Death Saturn" (as I like to call it).
By all logic, that space battle should have been awesome, but I have only seen it once or twice as I really just can't stand the way it plays out.

This was an attempt (more a proof of concept) to see if the battle itself could be made a bit more enjoyable (aka make Anakin a bit less useless/annoying)

Biggest changes:
- Anakin flying a starfighter is now part of the plan
- Anakin no longer arrives late to the battle
- Anakin knows how to fly
- Anakin _decides_ to take out the generator (instead of doing it all by accident)

Don't pay too much attention to the audio; it's a rough cut, and I'm not an editor, so I do mean ROUGH...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWNFfFLnESM

I like it.  You rearranged Anakin's lines particularly effectively.  Nice work.

DarthBo said:

Haven't visited these boards in over a year now, but with TPM in theaters again, I finally got round to (trying to) edit the space battle at the end of TPM.

I always liked the design of TPM (not that there was anything else to like), especially the Naboo starfighters (visually and audibly) and the "Death Saturn" (as I like to call it).
By all logic, that space battle should have been awesome, but I have only seen it once or twice as I really just can't stand the way it plays out.

This was an attempt (more a proof of concept) to see if the battle itself could be made a bit more enjoyable (aka make Anakin a bit less useless/annoying)

Biggest changes:
- Anakin flying a starfighter is now part of the plan
- Anakin no longer arrives late to the battle
- Anakin knows how to fly
- Anakin _decides_ to take out the generator (instead of doing it all by accident)

Don't pay too much attention to the audio; it's a rough cut, and I'm not an editor, so I do mean ROUGH...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWNFfFLnESM

Love it. Although there are a few things I would do slightly differently.

- Anakin flying a starfighter is NOT part of the plan, but he decides he wants to do it, and proves himself to be an exceptional pilot in the end. After all, he is the best starpilot in the galaxy.

- I'd take out the "This is tense!" and the "Aaaaaaaaah!" lines.

Nice work on the space battle, Bo. Is it still meant to be intercut with the other battles?

Something I was thinking about regarding Anakin's turn: could it be possible that Anakin never (or too late) knew Sidious orchestrated the war? This could introduce a bit of ambiguity: when Anakin finds out Palpatine is Sidious, Sidious can lay all the blame on Dooku, and Sidious can present himself as only trying to make the Republic strong to fight it. That he is a Sith Lord and thus evil 'is a point of view'. I think Anakin could identify with this, since he is for 'less deliberating and more fighting'. When Obi-Wan tells Anakin that he too has been deceived by Sidious he would see this as a conformation of what Palpatine has been telling him all along.

I know this would require a lot of tinkering, mostly regarding the clone army's origins and Dooku's involvement, but it might work.

Jair Crawford said:

DarthBo said:

Haven't visited these boards in over a year now, but with TPM in theaters again, I finally got round to (trying to) edit the space battle at the end of TPM.

I always liked the design of TPM (not that there was anything else to like), especially the Naboo starfighters (visually and audibly) and the "Death Saturn" (as I like to call it).
By all logic, that space battle should have been awesome, but I have only seen it once or twice as I really just can't stand the way it plays out.

This was an attempt (more a proof of concept) to see if the battle itself could be made a bit more enjoyable (aka make Anakin a bit less useless/annoying)

Biggest changes:
- Anakin flying a starfighter is now part of the plan
- Anakin no longer arrives late to the battle
- Anakin knows how to fly
- Anakin _decides_ to take out the generator (instead of doing it all by accident)

Don't pay too much attention to the audio; it's a rough cut, and I'm not an editor, so I do mean ROUGH...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWNFfFLnESM

Love it. Although there are a few things I would do slightly differently.

- Anakin flying a starfighter is NOT part of the plan, but he decides he wants to do it, and proves himself to be an exceptional pilot in the end. After all, he is the best starpilot in the galaxy.

- I'd take out the "This is tense!" and the "Aaaaaaaaah!" lines.

Actually, Anakin being part of the plan is genius. Shows how much faith Qui-Gon has in the kid, and makes his actions less suicidal.

Does anyone know of good footage of Ian McDiarmid outside of Star Wars? My plan is to restructure everything into one defend-the-planet movie, with the kidnapping of Palpatine taking place near the end and the killing of Dooku becoming the true turn to the dark side event.

Vladius said:

Does anyone know of good footage of Ian McDiarmid outside of Star Wars? My plan is to restructure everything into one defend-the-planet movie, with the kidnapping of Palpatine taking place near the end and the killing of Dooku becoming the true turn to the dark side event.

 He's in "Elizabeth" the miniseries with Helen Mirren. He's even in a robe!

SilverKey said:

Nice work on the space battle, Bo. Is it still meant to be intercut with the other battles?

Something I was thinking about regarding Anakin's turn: could it be possible that Anakin never (or too late) knew Sidious orchestrated the war? This could introduce a bit of ambiguity: when Anakin finds out Palpatine is Sidious, Sidious can lay all the blame on Dooku, and Sidious can present himself as only trying to make the Republic strong to fight it. That he is a Sith Lord and thus evil 'is a point of view'. I think Anakin could identify with this, since he is for 'less deliberating and more fighting'. When Obi-Wan tells Anakin that he too has been deceived by Sidious he would see this as a conformation of what Palpatine has been telling him all along.

I know this would require a lot of tinkering, mostly regarding the clone army's origins and Dooku's involvement, but it might work.

Call me crazy, but did Anakin ever know that Palpy orchestrated the war in the current state of the movie? Well, maybe he did. Maybe I need to go watch it (shudder) to be sure.

MrInsaneA said:

Jair Crawford said:

DarthBo said:

Haven't visited these boards in over a year now, but with TPM in theaters again, I finally got round to (trying to) edit the space battle at the end of TPM.

I always liked the design of TPM (not that there was anything else to like), especially the Naboo starfighters (visually and audibly) and the "Death Saturn" (as I like to call it).
By all logic, that space battle should have been awesome, but I have only seen it once or twice as I really just can't stand the way it plays out.

This was an attempt (more a proof of concept) to see if the battle itself could be made a bit more enjoyable (aka make Anakin a bit less useless/annoying)

Biggest changes:
- Anakin flying a starfighter is now part of the plan
- Anakin no longer arrives late to the battle
- Anakin knows how to fly
- Anakin _decides_ to take out the generator (instead of doing it all by accident)

Don't pay too much attention to the audio; it's a rough cut, and I'm not an editor, so I do mean ROUGH...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWNFfFLnESM

Love it. Although there are a few things I would do slightly differently.

- Anakin flying a starfighter is NOT part of the plan, but he decides he wants to do it, and proves himself to be an exceptional pilot in the end. After all, he is the best starpilot in the galaxy.

- I'd take out the "This is tense!" and the "Aaaaaaaaah!" lines.

Actually, Anakin being part of the plan is genius. Shows how much faith Qui-Gon has in the kid, and makes his actions less suicidal.

Nah, man. I think it should be Anakin's decision. It makes more sense and makes the scene more intense. Cause you don't know what's gonna happen, what that kid has gotten himself into. If it's already pre-seen and predicted by Qui-Gon then the tension is lost cause we know for a fact that that old dude knows what's up.

That's what I think, anyways.

But either way, this is an awesome edit. A serious improvement over the original!

Kudos!

It's not spelled out, but I think he knows. He knows of Palpatine's connection to the Trade Federation, and the fact that the Jedi Council was looking for a Sith Lord. He should have been smart enough to connect the dots, even though ROTS Anakin isn't the smartest :p Personally, I'd like to see it emphasized that Anakin didn't know of Palpatine's manipulation of the war.

It would be interesting if Palpatine made out that the Jedi were responsible for everything we as an audience know he did.

Dooku was a Jedi.

Palpatine may have hidden his Sith background from the galaxy at large but everything Anakin knows about the Sith comes from the Jedi 'propaganda machine'.

He could argue he had to hide his background to save the galaxy from the Jedi conspiracy and Mace pointing his saber at the unarmed chancellor is proof that they were the masterminds behind both sides of the war.

By the time Anakin figures out he has been duped he is already drunk on power and has nothing left to lose anyway.

I'm not sure how to translate that into the form of editing decisions but it makes sense that Anakin becomes Vader because his good intensions have been warped by lies.

Changing the subject a little, what about having the trip through the core of Naboo more Jules Vernian?

Instead of having the Bongo or whatever it's called, a sub going through the flooded hollow interior of the planet it could be a drill borrowing through the crust and magma of a rocky planet.

The cockpit could be the same but the nose could be a spinning conical blade/propeller.

The latter could be acomplished by miniatures I guess. Would this include ecounters with monsters and stuff?

Perhaps but maybe they could be replaced with other obstacles.

Anyone seen this? Some great (if verging on impossible to execute) ideas...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgICnbC2-_Y&feature=g-u-u&context=G2e07b37FUAAAAAAAAAA

Isn't that Troy off Benidorm?

I admit I had to google that, but the resemblance is *uncanny*! 

His ideas were pretty strong... It shows that what Lucas gave us on screen should have only served as a FIRST DRAFT that may have later become a far stronger film. I wish all those ideas were possible in a fan edit, but I can't see how they could be.

Some of those ideas are good but not many of them can be turned into editing ideas.

Though it might be possible to transfer the saber duel to the palace corridors and the Throne Room.

What if Obi-Wan cuts Maul at the knee (he could even already have robotic legs) that way he could easily become the Cyborg General in the last episode.

He could fall out of a hole in the palace wall and down the waterfall, instead of yet another death pit.

I doubt if even Sith have the power to survive a saber swipe to the abdomen.

Removing the space and land battles are bold moves.

If the Gungans were replaced by non-CGI aliens or removed from the planet entirely the battle could take place in the streets of Theed.

That would mean building models and filming actors and dropping them into the city fighting tanks and droids.

Maybe you could turn the Naboo starfighters into airspeeders and have them weaving between the buildings and shooting droids and tanks from above while dodging Federation fighters.

A massive undertaking but if it could be pulled off it would make for a stronger film.

Anakin left at the temple is an interesting idea too.

Leaving out Yoda from the PT is more of a problem, not unless he is replaced by an actor playing another Jedi and the references to him are somehow diverted.

I can't see how it could be made to work convincingly.

I've always been a fan of Maul surviving, possibly into the form of Grievous to have a showdown with Kenobi. Interestingly enough, it seems the Clone Wars series is exploring at least some of this concept....

http://www.usatoday.com/life/comics/story/2012-02-23/Darth-Maul-debuts-in-Star-Wars-Clone-Wars/53221760/1 

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a205/DarthVader28/yodapurplesaber.gif