Collaborative Fanediting: An ROTJ Proposition (BACK ON TRACK WITH EMANSWFAN AT THE HELM--SEE POST 1488 OR OP FOR A LINK!) — Page 46

So like....can we vote on whether we want this new script to be the basis of our first version of this edit? Because I really, really, really, really want it to be.

Johannus said:

There are a few things I would like to add to the vote if I may.  Firstly I would like to push once more for the Bothan scene as I (very crudely) mocked up because I didn't really get much feedback on that.  I know it is possibly the most extravegant version suggested but I feel it would really set this apart from other edits. 

Also I would like to push for the idea of making Jabba's palace seedier.  I'm open to ideas on how but someone suggested using clips of other dancers and editing them in.  If we do then I would like to suggest using a redheaded girl which could then be Mara Jade (one of the only ideas from the EU that I like).  To anyone who doesn't like the EU it would just be a redheaded girl, and she wouldn't pop up again but to anyone who likes Mara Jade it could be Mara Jade.  Much in the same way as the Eclipse would be just another ship in the context of this film. 

I would also like to see a second sail barge added as per the original concept art.  I made a mock up of this ages ago and put forward an idea of how it could be dealt with but I am not at my computer at the moment so I will have to expand on this later.  Basically it wouldn't interfere with the story, but visually it would make Luke's survival and victory seem much more unlikely and thus impressive. 

I would also like to see more alien species mixed into the background as a part of the rebel forces on Endor (such as Wookiee commandos).  This would probably only be possible by shooting new footage, so I don't know if you would want to include this in the vote or not as we are uncertain on how practical that will be, but the idea is there if you would like to. 

Thats all I can think of at the moment but just wanted to get them down here before all the voting options are gathered for the final vote.  I wander though whether it would be worth holding off on this final vote for a touch longer until we have further discussed some of the more divided issues such as the Bothan scene, and some of the newer ideas like making Jabba's palace darker. 

 

I will add them to the vote.  While I like the idea of a more diverse group at Endor, I think that would be an especially difficult task to pull off, since they would probably need to be composited into some existing footage, which would be especially difficult to pull off realistically.

I think Jabba's Palace would be easier to pull off because a couple of new shots replacing the SE shots could go a long way in improving the nature and feel of the throne room/brothel.  Mara Jade is especially interesting to me.

I can include a second sail barge, but I honestly don't think that would be necessary, or again very easy.  Putting the barge in place seems quite workable, but then people aboard it would also be firing at the company and trying to prevent the group's escape.  I don't see how we could use existing footage to make that work.

The vote will include all Bothan options mentioned, including their removal.  Everyone can only vote for one option.  And I can wait on the vote for a few more days, but at the same time the vote can prompt discussion of the merits of each suggested idea.

MrInsaneA, I'm glad you like the script as it currently is.  I actually hope very little changes with it because I really like how it has turned out thus far as well.  But I don't think the changes up for vote will make any big difference anyway, mostly just some minor visuals.  But we can submit it as a voting item as well.

darth_ender said:

Johannus said:

There are a few things I would like to add to the vote if I may.  Firstly I would like to push once more for the Bothan scene as I (very crudely) mocked up because I didn't really get much feedback on that.  I know it is possibly the most extravegant version suggested but I feel it would really set this apart from other edits. 

Also I would like to push for the idea of making Jabba's palace seedier.  I'm open to ideas on how but someone suggested using clips of other dancers and editing them in.  If we do then I would like to suggest using a redheaded girl which could then be Mara Jade (one of the only ideas from the EU that I like).  To anyone who doesn't like the EU it would just be a redheaded girl, and she wouldn't pop up again but to anyone who likes Mara Jade it could be Mara Jade.  Much in the same way as the Eclipse would be just another ship in the context of this film. 

I would also like to see a second sail barge added as per the original concept art.  I made a mock up of this ages ago and put forward an idea of how it could be dealt with but I am not at my computer at the moment so I will have to expand on this later.  Basically it wouldn't interfere with the story, but visually it would make Luke's survival and victory seem much more unlikely and thus impressive. 

I would also like to see more alien species mixed into the background as a part of the rebel forces on Endor (such as Wookiee commandos).  This would probably only be possible by shooting new footage, so I don't know if you would want to include this in the vote or not as we are uncertain on how practical that will be, but the idea is there if you would like to. 

Thats all I can think of at the moment but just wanted to get them down here before all the voting options are gathered for the final vote.  I wander though whether it would be worth holding off on this final vote for a touch longer until we have further discussed some of the more divided issues such as the Bothan scene, and some of the newer ideas like making Jabba's palace darker. 

 

I will add them to the vote.  While I like the idea of a more diverse group at Endor, I think that would be an especially difficult task to pull off, since they would probably need to be composited into some existing footage, which would be especially difficult to pull off realistically.

I think Jabba's Palace would be easier to pull off because a couple of new shots replacing the SE shots could go a long way in improving the nature and feel of the throne room/brothel.  Mara Jade is especially interesting to me.

I can include a second sail barge, but I honestly don't think that would be necessary, or again very easy.  Putting the barge in place seems quite workable, but then people aboard it would also be firing at the company and trying to prevent the group's escape.  I don't see how we could use existing footage to make that work.

The vote will include all Bothan options mentioned, including their removal.  Everyone can only vote for one option.  And I can wait on the vote for a few more days, but at the same time the vote can prompt discussion of the merits of each suggested idea.

 

MrInsaneA, I'm glad you like the script as it currently is.  I actually hope very little changes with it because I really like how it has turned out thus far as well.  But I don't think the changes up for vote will make any big difference anyway, mostly just some minor visuals.  But we can submit it as a voting item as well.

Oh good. Because honestly, I think we've struck gold here Ender. This has so much potential, and if we can execute it, it could be perfect.

There's talk going on of including the Eclipse? Sounds interesting and potentially difficult, you probably want to avoid it ending up with some one-upping game going on: You think a Star Destroyer's big? Look at my Super Star Destroyer! You think that's big? Check out this Eclipse class Super Star Destroyer! You think that's big? Have a look at our Second Death Star!
Perhaps it could be used as the Emperor's transport to the Death Star, have it dock and not mentioned. Or, use it for the Emperor's throne room scenes. 

darth_ender said:

Something I realize I forgot to mention earlier was whether it would be easier to show the Interactive Board Game footage of Darth in the Death Star hall or if it was easier to film a guy in a Vader costume and composite him into a Death Star hall.  I personally feel using the old footage sounds simpler; we wouldn't have to find a willing participant, the actor would truly be in the hall and would therefore likely look more realistic, and I don't know where we'd find a good empty Death Star corridor shot to composite the actor into.

So I'm getting ready for the third and final vote, thanks to Johannus.  He was kind enough to gather ideas for me.  This is your last chance for additional idea submissions.

A couple of points I want to make as I prepare for the new vote: I personally really oppose TIE bombers and a forest fire on the Endor surface.  I mean, we do want the good guys to win, after all.  I don't see how it could be a real victory, even if I find the idea extremely fascinating.  How could the Rebels take out the bombers?  I don't think Chewie's AT-ST could shoot down three spaceships.  And in spite of the Rebels' success at taking out the shield generator, so many Ewoks would die to make the ending especially bitter.  I want it to be an uphill battle for the little boogers, but not a sheer cliff.

Again I will mention the Eclipse, as I will include it in this voting round.  It's definitely not necessary, but rather an interesting visual idea.  I don't mind if it gets shot down, but I'm really interested to hear more people's thoughts.

Automatic re-entries for the final vote include: Duel of the Fates motif during parts of the space battle, including the alternate version suggested by MrInsaneA, even including a Bothan scene/any spy scene, and which suggested version, Luke kills/decapitates Boba Fett (expanded idea through Ronster's newest mockup, Anakin showing up at the funeral pyre instead of with Obi-wan and Yoda, an extended Dagobah opening with Yoda giving Luke a green crystal and showing some training, and the title Last of the Jedi.  I'll post the vote in the next day or two, so please provide suggestions if you want one of your ideas that was shot down a second chance or if you have some other new ideas to mention.  It might help to look through the ESB and ROTJ Wishlist thread as well as the How Would You Remake ROTJ thread (which I can't find in spite of OT.com's excellent search function) if you want to seek out new ideas.  Anything that doesn't get used this time around can be put in a new post or thread that compiles all the good ideas for further radicalizing the edit when this first version is completed.

Some more good news: I have been in communication with TMBTM, who has agreed to "try" to colorize the black and white female pilots for our edit (he can't promise success, but I understand that is a big challenge).  It's only a very few seconds, so he will give it a shot.  I know it seems a bit late to be asking this, but what is our source so he knows what colors to match?  I believe we should go with Harmy's Despecialized Edition as he offered.  Obviously we may need to pull bits from other sources, but that should be our primary source and efforts should be made to match.  Thanks so much for helping us out TMBTM!

Finally, here is the best Star Tours footage I have.  It's 4:3, about 20 seconds cruising over the Death Star surface and entering the trench.  I think we could put about 10 of those seconds in the Falcon cockpit window and thereby make an effective additional shot.  I really feel it's worth it, and the quality is decent enough to be useful (might still need a little color correction, but I'll let a pro handle that).

All good stuff D...

About Vader and including the walk down the hall... I have actually realised it is better to not show him walking down the hall at all before the deleted scene and contacting luke via the force or telepathy because he gets in a lift and then all of a sudden he is in his chamber... Better to re-use the shot from ESB where his chamber opens just saying what I have come up with... Use any walks down the hall... later on for Jejerod or whatever else you may come up with..

To show ties launching from DSII we could show the interior docking bay in 1 shot  (CGI) then use the shot of Vader leaving with 2 ties from ANH Yavin but mask Vaders Tie-Fighter out perhaps..

I will do this shot of the falcon cockpit today and an x-wing cockpit shot too... I will also try to colour correct star tours footage myself also.

So here goes nothing...

JLB_Tosche said:

There's talk going on of including the Eclipse? Sounds interesting and potentially difficult, you probably want to avoid it ending up with some one-upping game going on: You think a Star Destroyer's big? Look at my Super Star Destroyer! You think that's big? Check out this Eclipse class Super Star Destroyer! You think that's big? Have a look at our Second Death Star!
Perhaps it could be used as the Emperor's transport to the Death Star, have it dock and not mentioned. Or, use it for the Emperor's throne room scenes. 

Actually, that pretty much exactly what we have in mind, except it will not dock, but will simply leave afterwards.  And that's not even final yet.  It could just as easily end up left out.  It will serve no other purpose, as it really can be an over-the-top ship.  I personally just like the look of it, and since Vader is arriving in the Executor in this version, I thought, "What would the Emperor come in?"

Ronster said:

darth_ender said:

Something I realize I forgot to mention earlier was whether it would be easier to show the Interactive Board Game footage of Darth in the Death Star hall or if it was easier to film a guy in a Vader costume and composite him into a Death Star hall.  I personally feel using the old footage sounds simpler; we wouldn't have to find a willing participant, the actor would truly be in the hall and would therefore likely look more realistic, and I don't know where we'd find a good empty Death Star corridor shot to composite the actor into.

So I'm getting ready for the third and final vote, thanks to Johannus.  He was kind enough to gather ideas for me.  This is your last chance for additional idea submissions.

A couple of points I want to make as I prepare for the new vote: I personally really oppose TIE bombers and a forest fire on the Endor surface.  I mean, we do want the good guys to win, after all.  I don't see how it could be a real victory, even if I find the idea extremely fascinating.  How could the Rebels take out the bombers?  I don't think Chewie's AT-ST could shoot down three spaceships.  And in spite of the Rebels' success at taking out the shield generator, so many Ewoks would die to make the ending especially bitter.  I want it to be an uphill battle for the little boogers, but not a sheer cliff.

Again I will mention the Eclipse, as I will include it in this voting round.  It's definitely not necessary, but rather an interesting visual idea.  I don't mind if it gets shot down, but I'm really interested to hear more people's thoughts.

Automatic re-entries for the final vote include: Duel of the Fates motif during parts of the space battle, including the alternate version suggested by MrInsaneA, even including a Bothan scene/any spy scene, and which suggested version, Luke kills/decapitates Boba Fett (expanded idea through Ronster's newest mockup, Anakin showing up at the funeral pyre instead of with Obi-wan and Yoda, an extended Dagobah opening with Yoda giving Luke a green crystal and showing some training, and the title Last of the Jedi.  I'll post the vote in the next day or two, so please provide suggestions if you want one of your ideas that was shot down a second chance or if you have some other new ideas to mention.  It might help to look through the ESB and ROTJ Wishlist thread as well as the How Would You Remake ROTJ thread (which I can't find in spite of OT.com's excellent search function) if you want to seek out new ideas.  Anything that doesn't get used this time around can be put in a new post or thread that compiles all the good ideas for further radicalizing the edit when this first version is completed.

Some more good news: I have been in communication with TMBTM, who has agreed to "try" to colorize the black and white female pilots for our edit (he can't promise success, but I understand that is a big challenge).  It's only a very few seconds, so he will give it a shot.  I know it seems a bit late to be asking this, but what is our source so he knows what colors to match?  I believe we should go with Harmy's Despecialized Edition as he offered.  Obviously we may need to pull bits from other sources, but that should be our primary source and efforts should be made to match.  Thanks so much for helping us out TMBTM!

Finally, here is the best Star Tours footage I have.  It's 4:3, about 20 seconds cruising over the Death Star surface and entering the trench.  I think we could put about 10 of those seconds in the Falcon cockpit window and thereby make an effective additional shot.  I really feel it's worth it, and the quality is decent enough to be useful (might still need a little color correction, but I'll let a pro handle that).

All good stuff D...

About Vader and including the walk down the hall... I have actually realised it is better to not show him walking down the hall at all before the deleted scene and contacting luke via the force or telepathy because he gets in a lift and then all of a sudden he is in his chamber... Better to re-use the shot from ESB where his chamber opens just saying what I have come up with... Use any walks down the hall... later on for Jejerod or whatever else you may come up with..

Interesting and potentially better...Please show what you have as soon as possible because you may be right.  As always, my big concern is that it's obviously reused, but it's so similar that if it's done well, it wouldn't be obvious.

To show ties launching from DSII we could show the interior docking bay in 1 shot  (CGI) then use the shot of Vader leaving with 2 ties from ANH Yavin but mask Vaders Tie-Fighter out perhaps..

Again, that might be a solution, but it seems better just to show a larger hangar and more TIEs hanging there.  It was your suggestion, and I think we should see the racks that the TIEs hang on if we're going to bother showing the launch at all.

I will do this shot of the falcon cockpit today and an x-wing cockpit shot too... I will also try to colour correct star tours footage myself also.

So here goes nothing...

Excited to see this.  Good luck.

darth_ender said:

I know it seems a bit late to be asking this, but what is our source so he knows what colors to match?  I believe we should go with Harmy's Despecialized Edition as he offered.  Obviously we may need to pull bits from other sources, but that should be our primary source and efforts should be made to match.

Is this right, guys?  Should we used the Despecialized Edition, or is there another preferable version for a base?  Hyperspace Edition?  Dark_Jedi's V3?  2004 SE?  2011 BD?

I finally found Xhonzi's post that mentions this thread:

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/How-would-you-have-done-ROTJ/topic/10450/

I will link to it in the first post as well.

EDIT: I updated the first post with links to any potential new footage I'd provided before, other threads of interest, and TMBTM's involvement.

Too bad no footage of this woman exists:

Apparently something was filmed.  We really need more female and alien alien pilots.

darth_ender said:

Apparently something was filmed.  We really need more female and alien alien pilots.

Star Wars also needs more gay people and muslims!!!

;-)

Well we only see Chewie remotely interested in girls in the holiday special and the comics and the Admiral of the Rebel Fleet has an Islamic name.

I'm thinking these sort of ideas to represent the TIE hangar, but aalenfae pointed out that it would much easier to show an inside-looking-out view.

So since the various Bothan ideas (or no Bothans) is up for vote once again, I have a few good reasons to push for my idea (the one I included in the script):

1) It requires the fewest newly filmed material or CGI work (just showing eyes and hands, and perhaps the eyes can be pulled from somewhere else).

2) It fits in well in a midpoint in the script rather than drastically changing the opening, and possibly the nature of the whole film.

3) Possibly one of the best reasons is that it takes place while a Bothan is preparing to dock with a Mon Cal cruiser and shows a shot from the cockpit looking out the canopy.  Well, it just occurred to me that this clip from the end of Star Tours 2 could be slowed down and used to portray this shot, thus saving some work.

I finished cutting the whole first half of ROTJ in rough with many ideas included... clips will be up here for peoples enjoyment or disgust later on considering I have not watched it in whole completly myself yet and how it is as a whole experience to watch as a movie rather than clips.... Fighting to beat the clock here...

There is alot of changes and bits and pieces scarpered from wherever I could find it to make this happen....

Sorry D have not got round to the star tours footage yet hopefully in a bit after I import this stuff and chop it up....and upload as promised... It's exporting now needs a couple more tweaks and then It will be up.

Doing the sound has taken a long time let alone the video.. But I have tried to make it the best i could in what time for this deadline...

So in about an hour or so...

Ron, I'm rereading a lot of the old stuff where we disagreed all the time...funny because now I really look forward to your posts.  No worries about not being able to get to the material just yet.  And just so you know, someone in another forum I'm a part of suggested Magic Bullet Suite trial to me, so maybe you could try that one for your next month and see how that goes.  Thanks for all these mockups.  Obviously we can't use some of the material you provide (like when you splice in material from a low quality source), but what you do give us is a good idea of how such a scene could play out, and therefore we make more informed decisions.  Thanks for doing this.  I really can't wait to see what you've done.

darth_ender said:

JLB_Tosche said:

There's talk going on of including the Eclipse? Sounds interesting and potentially difficult, you probably want to avoid it ending up with some one-upping game going on: You think a Star Destroyer's big? Look at my Super Star Destroyer! You think that's big? Check out this Eclipse class Super Star Destroyer! You think that's big? Have a look at our Second Death Star!
Perhaps it could be used as the Emperor's transport to the Death Star, have it dock and not mentioned. Or, use it for the Emperor's throne room scenes. 

Actually, that pretty much exactly what we have in mind, except it will not dock, but will simply leave afterwards.  And that's not even final yet.  It could just as easily end up left out.  It will serve no other purpose, as it really can be an over-the-top ship.  I personally just like the look of it, and since Vader is arriving in the Executor in this version, I thought, "What would the Emperor come in?"

I really want the Eclipse, but I think it should be smaller then the Executor. Just make it the size of a regular Star Destroyer. Wah-lah! Instant eye candy.

Well, it is shorter than the Executor, but...thicker.  Personally, if we include it, I think it should be a big ship.  Part of my reason for advocating it at all is because Vader brought the Executor, the Emperor would bring his big bad boy and flaunt his capital ship.  If it's going to be a small ship, I'd honestly rather not include it.

darth_ender said:

Well, it is shorter than the Executor, but...thicker.  Personally, if we include it, I think it should be a big ship.  Part of my reason for advocating it at all is because Vader brought the Executor, the Emperor would bring his big bad boy and flaunt his capital ship.  If it's going to be a small ship, I'd honestly rather not include it.

Okay...I'm still for it. GOECLIPSEGO!!!!

Damn it is taking as long as the edit (58mins) to do the conversion so it's gonna be late because I have to chop it up now and add some subs to the very begining.... Nothing happens too fast with this stuff but I will promise to get some of it up tonight even if it kills me

No offese D but I'm taking a break after this... I will eventually pull it all together into a complete rough cut...

darth_ender said:

So since the various Bothan ideas (or no Bothans) is up for vote once again, I have a few good reasons to push for my idea (the one I included in the script):

1) It requires the fewest newly filmed material or CGI work (just showing eyes and hands, and perhaps the eyes can be pulled from somewhere else).

2) It fits in well in a midpoint in the script rather than drastically changing the opening, and possibly the nature of the whole film.

3) Possibly one of the best reasons is that it takes place while a Bothan is preparing to dock with a Mon Cal cruiser and shows a shot from the cockpit looking out the canopy.  Well, it just occurred to me that this clip from the end of Star Tours 2 could be slowed down and used to portray this shot, thus saving some work.

Reasons not to have Bothans:

1) It will take A LOT of work.

2) It does not add anything to the story or characters.

3) It does not feature any of the primary characters, and, thus, will feel un-Star Warsy.

darth_ender said:

darth_ender said:

I know it seems a bit late to be asking this, but what is our source so he knows what colors to match?  I believe we should go with Harmy's Despecialized Edition as he offered.  Obviously we may need to pull bits from other sources, but that should be our primary source and efforts should be made to match.

Is this right, guys?  Should we used the Despecialized Edition, or is there another preferable version for a base?  Hyperspace Edition?  Dark_Jedi's V3?  2004 SE?  2011 BD?

I would say 2011 BD. There are a lot of SE additions that would be useful. We don't want to work from scratch here in terms of updating special effects.

Ronster said:

Damn it is taking as long as the edit (58mins) to do the conversion so it's gonna be late because I have to chop it up now and add some subs to the very begining.... Nothing happens too fast with this stuff but I will promise to get some of it up tonight even if it kills me

No offese D but I'm taking a break after this... I will eventually pull it all together into a complete rough cut...

Believe me, I understand, and my efforts have been puny compared to yours.  You deserve a break.

DominicCobb said:

darth_ender said:

So since the various Bothan ideas (or no Bothans) is up for vote once again, I have a few good reasons to push for my idea (the one I included in the script):

1) It requires the fewest newly filmed material or CGI work (just showing eyes and hands, and perhaps the eyes can be pulled from somewhere else).

2) It fits in well in a midpoint in the script rather than drastically changing the opening, and possibly the nature of the whole film.

3) Possibly one of the best reasons is that it takes place while a Bothan is preparing to dock with a Mon Cal cruiser and shows a shot from the cockpit looking out the canopy.  Well, it just occurred to me that this clip from the end of Star Tours 2 could be slowed down and used to portray this shot, thus saving some work.

Reasons not to have Bothans:

1) It will take A LOT of work.

2) It does not add anything to the story or characters.

3) It does not feature any of the primary characters, and, thus, will feel un-Star Warsy.

Fair reasons, and you are right on all of them.  Like I said, my idea would require the least work, but it still might be more than we should try for.  All it really does is clarify Mon Mothma's statement.  I also think it might fill a gap between scenes, but it really isn't that important.  Again, that's fair.

DominicCobb said:

darth_ender said:

darth_ender said:

I know it seems a bit late to be asking this, but what is our source so he knows what colors to match?  I believe we should go with Harmy's Despecialized Edition as he offered.  Obviously we may need to pull bits from other sources, but that should be our primary source and efforts should be made to match.

Is this right, guys?  Should we used the Despecialized Edition, or is there another preferable version for a base?  Hyperspace Edition?  Dark_Jedi's V3?  2004 SE?  2011 BD?

I would say 2011 BD. There are a lot of SE additions that would be useful. We don't want to work from scratch here in terms of updating special effects.

True, but Harmy is upscaling his, isn't he?  But I don't know if his V1 is BD quality or not, and he's only just starting to finish up on ANH V2.  Also, since some of our material may be DVD quality, do we really want to aim for BD quality, or would we rather downsize to match?