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Collaborative Fanediting: An ROTJ Proposition (BACK ON TRACK WITH EMANSWFAN AT THE HELM--SEE POST 1488 OR OP FOR A LINK!) — Page 45

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Johannus said:

Well the guy I spoke to said its quite a wide community of people that visit the site, mostly costumers, but also fan film makers and so on, so if we are very lucky we might even meet someone there with the means to film things for us, who knows.  I'm not 100% sure but I think there is a similar garrison in the US where they have a spefic following of Endor troopers (I think it is in California, but only going from memory), which it might be more useful to get in touch with.  The reason for this is even if I find a dozen suitable costumers willing to help out in the UK, I have no idea where we could film in a woodland that would pass as Endor (though I'm open to suggestions).  Pilots would be easier because there are so many types and they could be used in a number of 'sets' so I'll see what I can do there. 

Would it be easier to find a good Vader costumer and try to reshoot him walking and then superimpose that onto a new background than trying to restore the delete scene footage of Vader walking down the corridor?

Something I always wanted to see is a couple of Wookiee troops mixed in with the rebel troops on Endor (and maybe other races too), never given much screen time, but to show a more diverse alliance compared to the human Empire.  I don't know how possible that would be but I think it might be worth considering things like that because I just don't know what costumers might be interested, but if we have a big list of ideas we would like to make happen, we can tick or cross them off as and when we find out what we would have available.

I'd rather not add to Darth_ender's workload with regards to having to keeping track of even more ideas and suggestions so if it is ok with everyone I would be very willing to try to organise these ideas and then see how realistic they are with regards to finding the costumers to help.  Would anyone mind that? 

This is fantastic, especially the part where you keep track of things ;)  I had nearly given up on the hope of newly filmed actors, but perhaps we can actually do it.  Perhaps someone can take care of contacting the costumed actors in California while you see about getting some pilots.  Everybody, all new scenes ideas and suggestions should be directed to Johannus, the point-man on this topic (if that really is okay with you).

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Vladius said:

Johannus said:

 I'm not 100% sure but I think there is a similar garrison in the US where they have a spefic following of Endor troopers (I think it is in California, but only going from memory), which it might be more useful to get in touch with.  The reason for this is even if I find a dozen suitable costumers willing to help out in the UK, I have no idea where we could film in a woodland that would pass as Endor (though I'm open to suggestions).

 

You answered your own question! California, definitely. But if there's any Canadians around Vancouver works very well too.

Sorry I meant if theres any locations in the UK, if its only California then someone over there would have to do something similar.

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MrInsaneA said:

Ender.....if we can do everything in this script....

I think this might turn into my favorite Star Wars movie ever.

Best part has to be....

Ric Olie: Yep, that's a lot of TIE fighters!

You know, I truly agree!  This could really be a great movie!  I can't believe we're really going to add Ric Olie, and I even made his line absolutely ridiculous, but the masses have spoken :D  We'll see when the time comes.

How soon till you can get the rough edit done?  Believe me, I don't expect instant results...it took me forever just to get the script done.  But once you get a rough edit completed, I have a feeling things will start picking up.  May I suggest using snapshots like I did in my crappy little rough edits, utilizing pictures and stuff from the script?  However, do what you feel is best, but I hope you are trying to convey what we will be changing.  Thanks for your hard work, and I look forward to the rough edit!

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DominicCobb said:

MrInsaneA said:

Ender.....if we can do everything in this script....

I think this might turn into my favorite Star Wars movie ever.

Best part has to be....

Ric Olie: Yep, that's a lot of TIE fighters!

Agreed on all points. 

Also, I'm starting to think having Anakin appear as a ghost at the funeral pyre is a good idea ONLY if he disappears. To me, that would mean that Anakin is still redeemed, but the poignancy of his final talk would Luke wouldn't be decreased. He's not going to be punished for eternity, but he won't be able to be among the living anymore. I have more things to say about this, but, basically, this is the way to go with Anakin's ghost.

I'm glad you see it that way.  Ron, I understand the difference of opinion, but I prefer a Vader redeemed in spirit as well as in body.  It's seems like it could be quite dramatic and powerful, to me.  In any case, I'll put it up for a second vote, along with many other things.  If it doesn't fly, then I'll give up on it.

Speaking of the third vote, I would really, really love it if you guys would collect your own suggestions.  You can even reuse old ideas, but I do prefer the ideas that were fairly close in the votes.  Some will be automatically up for re-vote, and this time there will be no maybe option.

I forgot to mention, I think there were three comments in the script/editing guide that were in dark blue rather than black; these were not definite changes, but rather popular votes that I wasn't sure would fit with the rest (if I remember correctly...not looking at it right now).  Anyway, they are "maybe" changes.

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Regarding Star Tours 1 footage, I will probably try my hand at it again in the near future.  However, I believe I will leave the interlacing in, as it obviously doesn't look so bad on the screen, and it preserves more detail.  I will also try a different program that allows for rotoscoping so I can darken several things without darkening everything.  It will probably be a few days.

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 (Edited)

Well I had the most productive day yet and things seem to be getting easier for me to do as I am gradually learning more aspects of the after effects software (now the trial is about to run out) making it quicker for me to get stuff done...

Almost there... Almost there... Negative my free trial ran out

lol couple of days left :(

I have the falcon cockpit ready to go and have some POV shots using ST2 footage done so I am not promoising anything but If I have time I will try to do it

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Right it looks like I have started contacting costumers at just the right time because a friend of mine who is studying film making has just asked me for a favour, so i figure if I can get some positive responce from the costumers, I may have myself a cameraman/director for anything new we could shoot (in the UK). 

That said I thought it might be worth getting the ball rolling a little with ideas.  As Darth Ender said pilots are going to be useful, and I am thinking it would be for cockpit shots?  So those could be filmed individually which would be a big benefit.  Would there be any need to film shots of pilots together?  Maybe a group sitting together could be placed in the briefing room to add to the numbers?  But then how well would that be able to be integrated with the existing shots of that room. 

Obviously the ground battle on Endor could be added to but as I suggested, someone in California would be more use unless someone can suggest a good wooded area in the UK but I seriously doubt there is anything similar enough.  Because of that if there were any extra shots of rebel commandos in the bunker or anything like that it would probably be better to film those in California too so we don't have to worry about finding similar looking extras, so I am (at the moment) putting aside the whole Endor ground battle. 

What about a shot of Vader actually opening Luke's lightsaber (as the mockup Angel made a while back), would that be necessary or would we be able to edit the existing shot easily enough without refilming?

Vader walking down a corridor perhaps, in the style of the interactive board game footage Darth Ender found, because we could reshoot in a higher quality?

New shots of dancers, band members, or other scum which could then be mixed in with the Jabba's palace sequence to make it look darker and scummier, or just to replace a few of the shots people don't like so we aren't having to sacrifice runtime?

I have messaged a person who has a screen accurate Yoda puppet, so if that pans out we could potentially get some new shots of Yoda.

I know I am pushing this idea a little but I would rather get way too many ideas and then find out which ones are the most possible, than find I have some people interested in helping, and then have no idea how to use them.  So if anyone has any idea at all (RotJ only at the moment) that you might not have voiced in the past because there wasn't suitable footage or whatever, then please just start suggesting anything.  If it can't be done it can't be done, but who knows, anything is possible.  The people on these sites make just about every costume from the films, the EU, and even made up stuff, there are even people making Gonk droids so no suggestion is too far fetched while we are just brainstorming. 

 

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Wow, this is all good news.  The Yoda puppet in particular is intriguing to me, as perhaps that could allow for some extension of the Dagobah scenes as you and Ronster had suggested.  I'm not sure yet how we would do that, considering we don't have a Dagobah set, but if we kept it simple and used clever filming, perhaps we could simply use a matte, and if necessary use a Luke double from behind.

But I definitely think the highest priority and easiest task to accomplish would be filming new pilots.  If done well, we simply need to matte cockpits behind them, and thus greatly expand the space battle.  B-wing pilots with their weird helmets would be especially fun.  See this thread (also linked in the first post) for further discussion about pilots and cockpits:

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/B-Wings-in-ROTJ-editing-epiphany/topic/12866/

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TheBoost said:

My idea for ROTJ would be one new shot that would totally change the tone.

In the Ewok village, just have one shot of a pile of beat up Scouttrooper armor, sitting by the cooking fire.

BOOM. Ewoks are cooler.

I didn't even think of this, but it's perfect, and shouldn't be too hard to film with appropriate props and lighting.

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So I am giving up on color-correcting Star Tours.  That doesn't mean I don't think we should use it, but rather that I don't think I can fix it.  I will make everything I've gathered available soon so someone else can try it.  I did find the B-roll clip (this is it on YouTube) in better quality, and I believe it may be enough to suit our needs and slightly expand our footage, simply showing a couple of seconds from the Millennium Falcon's cockpit window cruising over the Death Star surface, as Ronster suggested.  But if anyone wants to do anything further or preserve the whole thing, I will provide everything I have for your color-correcting pleasure...tomorrow, probably.

 

Also, Johannus was kind enough to gather items for the third and final vote for me.  I will be arranging these soon and will post our third and final round very soon.  Thanks so much for the help, Johannus!

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I enjoyed the script very much. At first I was confused about showing a Bothan but omitting mention of their name by Mothma and showing Sullust but omitting its name. I am guessing it was to substitute the visuals for dialogue which would be redundant as well as to depict the Emperor as less aware of what was going on? That definitely works well. But I do like Mothma's line ("Many Bothans died to bring us this information") and wonder if most of the line might be left in, why exclude their name?

The blue elephant in the room.

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Well, I actually meant that we will probably go with the inclusion of both or neither, but it's not yet decided.

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Sorry, wrote that last bit in a hurry and I worry it sounded rude.  I'm glad you liked the script.  I think it can make for a really great film.  The Bothan part is probably going to be all or nothing.  The reason for omitting the mention of Sullust is actually because I want the Emperor's revelation to Luke that he allowed the Rebels to get the plans to be more of a surprise for the audience as well.  And Sullust is mentioned by name in the opening crawl in this case :)  Thanks for taking the time to read it.

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 (Edited)

emanswfan said:

So maybe Coruscant was meant to be in ROTJ:

 http://www.starwars.com/watch/gwl_3d_conversation_part2.html

Stay on Target....

I have done some mock-uips of the emeror leaving coruscant and I ditched the idea because It adds nothing to the story whatsoever although you are correct Ralph Mcquarrie's concepts were never visualised in ROTJ and this is why I wanted to acknowledge this and give a nod to Ralph(not the PT)... The problem I have had is doing 2 big reveals with the executor so I have chosen to stick with the executor approaching the DSII only... But if I do find the time to finish this then you will not see the executor only the emporer on a shuttle... This may actually work better....I have given myself the answer to my own problem :D so I will try to complete this... Thankyou for the inspiration emanswfan

I have completley underestimated how much still needed to be done on the whole begining portion up until the briefing to satisfy myself and hopefully others also to show a new way ROTJ could be put together while re-organising it's structure without losing anything of significance and expanding the plot.....

I have accomplished it all bar 1 shot for Vaders star destroyer in my new opening mock-up and the tribal drumming in the rancors lair.... Some of it has really made me giggle at it's crudeness... So I may aswell throw in the emperor leaving coruscant with my last day of my free trial of CS5

Some clips will definatley be up here at some point tomorrow so stay tuned...

I know I won't be winning any oscars for my efforts but It nice to be nearing the end of this journey It's been an awful lot of hard work... But I would like to thank many of you for the inspiration and remember inspire and be inspired

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emanswfan said:

So maybe Coruscant was meant to be in ROTJ:

 http://www.starwars.com/watch/gwl_3d_conversation_part2.html

Thought you might find this interesting...Coruscant was called Had Abbadon.

 

STAR WARS – EPISODE VI : “REVENGE OF THE JEDI”
Written by GEORGE LUCAS
REVISED ROUGH DRAFT
June 12, 1981

A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away…

1. SPACE

The boundless heavens serve as a backdrop for the MAIN TITLE. A ROLL-UP crawls into infinity.

The Rebellion is doomed. Spies loyal
to the Old Republic have reported
several new armored space stations
under construction by the Empire.

A desperate plan to attack the
Dreaded Imperial capitol of
Had Abbadon and destroy the Death
Stars before they are completed has
been put into effect.

Rebel commandos, led by Princess Leia,
have made their way into the very
heart of the Galactic Empire: as the
first step toward the final battle
for freedom….

Pan down to reveal the planet HAD ABBADON, capitol of the Galactic Empire. The gray planet’s surface is completely covered with cities and is shrouded in a sickly brown haze. Orbiting the polluted planet is a small, green, moon, a sparkling contrast to the foreboding sphere beyond.

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Ronster said:

emanswfan said:

So maybe Coruscant was meant to be in ROTJ:

 http://www.starwars.com/watch/gwl_3d_conversation_part2.html

Stay on Target....

I have done some mock-uips of the emeror leaving coruscant and I ditched the idea because It adds nothing to the story whatsoever although you are correct Ralph Mcquarrie's concepts were never visualised in ROTJ and this is why I wanted to acknowledge this and give a nod to Ralph(not the PT)... The problem I have had is doing 2 big reveals with the executor so I have chosen to stick with the executor approaching the DSII only... But if I do find the time to finish this then you will not see the executor only the emporer on a shuttle... This may actually work better....I have given myself the answer to my own problem :D so I will try to complete this... Thankyou for the inspiration emanswfan

I have completley underestimated how much still needed to be done on the whole begining portion up until the briefing to satisfy myself and hopefully others also to show a new way ROTJ could be put together while re-organising it's structure without losing anything of significance and expanding the plot.....

I have accomplished it all bar 1 shot for Vaders star destroyer in my new opening mock-up and the tribal drumming in the rancors lair.... Some of it has really made me giggle at it's crudeness... So I may aswell throw in the emperor leaving coruscant with my last day of my free trial of CS5

Some clips will definatley be up here at some point tomorrow so stay tuned...

I know I won't be winning any oscars for my efforts but It nice to be nearing the end of this journey It's been an awful lot of hard work... But I would like to thank many of you for the inspiration and remember inspire and be inspired

You know, Ronster, your efforts are truly inspiring, even the things we don't use.  You've done great work in spite of the crudeness.  I can't wait to see what you do have, and it would be fun to see the Eclipse, I have to be honest.  Can't wait till it's posted :)

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darth_ender said:

emanswfan said:

So maybe Coruscant was meant to be in ROTJ:

 http://www.starwars.com/watch/gwl_3d_conversation_part2.html

 

Thought you might find this interesting...Coruscant was called Had Abbadon.

 

STAR WARS – EPISODE VI : “REVENGE OF THE JEDI”
Written by GEORGE LUCAS
REVISED ROUGH DRAFT
June 12, 1981

A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away…

1. SPACE

The boundless heavens serve as a backdrop for the MAIN TITLE. A ROLL-UP crawls into infinity.

The Rebellion is doomed. Spies loyal
to the Old Republic have reported
several new armored space stations
under construction by the Empire.

A desperate plan to attack the
Dreaded Imperial capitol of
Had Abbadon and destroy the Death
Stars before they are completed has
been put into effect.

Rebel commandos, led by Princess Leia,
have made their way into the very
heart of the Galactic Empire: as the
first step toward the final battle
for freedom….

Pan down to reveal the planet HAD ABBADON, capitol of the Galactic Empire. The gray planet’s surface is completely covered with cities and is shrouded in a sickly brown haze. Orbiting the polluted planet is a small, green, moon, a sparkling contrast to the foreboding sphere beyond.

 

George Lucas HAD ABBANDON-ED the idea then?

:)

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That's just terrible and hilarious at the same time! :D

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 (Edited)

Been working on the Lost Rebels footage; we thinking of throwing the Mon Calamari fighter in? Think it'd work a bit better than Nien Nunb, Jr., and the voice is a little clearer... plus, we could work in a joke line or two. ;-)

 

"All this technology and no men's room!"

*explodes*

:-D

 

 

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darth_ender said:

emanswfan said:

So maybe Coruscant was meant to be in ROTJ:

 http://www.starwars.com/watch/gwl_3d_conversation_part2.html

 

Thought you might find this interesting...Coruscant was called Had Abbadon.

 

STAR WARS – EPISODE VI : “REVENGE OF THE JEDI”
Written by GEORGE LUCAS
REVISED ROUGH DRAFT
June 12, 1981

A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away…

1. SPACE

The boundless heavens serve as a backdrop for the MAIN TITLE. A ROLL-UP crawls into infinity.

The Rebellion is doomed. Spies loyal
to the Old Republic have reported
several new armored space stations
under construction by the Empire.

A desperate plan to attack the
Dreaded Imperial capitol of
Had Abbadon and destroy the Death
Stars before they are completed has
been put into effect.

Rebel commandos, led by Princess Leia,
have made their way into the very
heart of the Galactic Empire: as the
first step toward the final battle
for freedom….

Pan down to reveal the planet HAD ABBADON, capitol of the Galactic Empire. The gray planet’s surface is completely covered with cities and is shrouded in a sickly brown haze. Orbiting the polluted planet is a small, green, moon, a sparkling contrast to the foreboding sphere beyond.

 

If you're bring up the old idea of the St. Petersburg/Leningrad-esque renaming of Coruscant, I would say I like it; but, honestly:

1. Why change it to Had Abbadon? Not Palpsville?

2. There is no in movie explanation, thus, audience confusion.

3. Coruscant sounds cooler. Probably the reason why Lucas used it for the PT.

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Ovan Marekal said:

Been working on the Lost Rebels footage; we thinking of throwing the Mon Calamari fighter in? Think it'd work a bit better than Nien Nunb, Jr., and the voice is a little clearer... plus, we could work in a joke line or two. ;-)

 

"All this technology and no men's room!"

*explodes*

:-D

 

 

I actually included both in the script, and I like how I used them.  However, they will likely be dubbed, so truthfully their presently spoken lines aren't that important.  However, those jokes are indeed quite funny and maybe we'll find a use for them somewhere :)

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DominicCobb said:

darth_ender said:

emanswfan said:

So maybe Coruscant was meant to be in ROTJ:

 http://www.starwars.com/watch/gwl_3d_conversation_part2.html

 

Thought you might find this interesting...Coruscant was called Had Abbadon.

 

STAR WARS – EPISODE VI : “REVENGE OF THE JEDI”
Written by GEORGE LUCAS
REVISED ROUGH DRAFT
June 12, 1981

A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away…

1. SPACE

The boundless heavens serve as a backdrop for the MAIN TITLE. A ROLL-UP crawls into infinity.

The Rebellion is doomed. Spies loyal
to the Old Republic have reported
several new armored space stations
under construction by the Empire.

A desperate plan to attack the
Dreaded Imperial capitol of
Had Abbadon and destroy the Death
Stars before they are completed has
been put into effect.

Rebel commandos, led by Princess Leia,
have made their way into the very
heart of the Galactic Empire: as the
first step toward the final battle
for freedom….

Pan down to reveal the planet HAD ABBADON, capitol of the Galactic Empire. The gray planet’s surface is completely covered with cities and is shrouded in a sickly brown haze. Orbiting the polluted planet is a small, green, moon, a sparkling contrast to the foreboding sphere beyond.

 

If you're bring up the old idea of the St. Petersburg/Leningrad-esque renaming of Coruscant, I would say I like it; but, honestly:

1. Why change it to Had Abbadon? Not Palpsville?

2. There is no in movie explanation, thus, audience confusion.

3. Coruscant sounds cooler. Probably the reason why Lucas used it for the PT.

Allow me to clarify...this is from an early draft for ROTJ.  I didn't write this; George Lucas and whatever help he may have had did.  Emanswfan suggested that perhaps Coruscant was originally going to be in the OT based on the video he linked.  I let him know that indeed it was originally going to be included, but was written out in later drafts.  Its name at the time was Had Abbadon.  It was changed to Coruscant in response to the extensive EU material out there, particularly the Thrawn Trilogy which first named the planet Coruscant.  I feel largely content with how our script currently stands.

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Something I realize I forgot to mention earlier was whether it would be easier to show the Interactive Board Game footage of Darth in the Death Star hall or if it was easier to film a guy in a Vader costume and composite him into a Death Star hall.  I personally feel using the old footage sounds simpler; we wouldn't have to find a willing participant, the actor would truly be in the hall and would therefore likely look more realistic, and I don't know where we'd find a good empty Death Star corridor shot to composite the actor into.

So I'm getting ready for the third and final vote, thanks to Johannus.  He was kind enough to gather ideas for me.  This is your last chance for additional idea submissions.

A couple of points I want to make as I prepare for the new vote: I personally really oppose TIE bombers and a forest fire on the Endor surface.  I mean, we do want the good guys to win, after all.  I don't see how it could be a real victory, even if I find the idea extremely fascinating.  How could the Rebels take out the bombers?  I don't think Chewie's AT-ST could shoot down three spaceships.  And in spite of the Rebels' success at taking out the shield generator, so many Ewoks would die to make the ending especially bitter.  I want it to be an uphill battle for the little boogers, but not a sheer cliff.

Again I will mention the Eclipse, as I will include it in this voting round.  It's definitely not necessary, but rather an interesting visual idea.  I don't mind if it gets shot down, but I'm really interested to hear more people's thoughts.

Automatic re-entries for the final vote include: Duel of the Fates motif during parts of the space battle, including the alternate version suggested by MrInsaneA, even including a Bothan scene/any spy scene, and which suggested version, Luke kills/decapitates Boba Fett (expanded idea through Ronster's newest mockup, Anakin showing up at the funeral pyre instead of with Obi-wan and Yoda, an extended Dagobah opening with Yoda giving Luke a green crystal and showing some training, and the title Last of the Jedi.  I'll post the vote in the next day or two, so please provide suggestions if you want one of your ideas that was shot down a second chance or if you have some other new ideas to mention.  It might help to look through the ESB and ROTJ Wishlist thread as well as the How Would You Remake ROTJ thread (which I can't find in spite of OT.com's excellent search function) if you want to seek out new ideas.  Anything that doesn't get used this time around can be put in a new post or thread that compiles all the good ideas for further radicalizing the edit when this first version is completed.

Some more good news: I have been in communication with TMBTM, who has agreed to "try" to colorize the black and white female pilots for our edit (he can't promise success, but I understand that is a big challenge).  It's only a very few seconds, so he will give it a shot.  I know it seems a bit late to be asking this, but what is our source so he knows what colors to match?  I believe we should go with Harmy's Despecialized Edition as he offered.  Obviously we may need to pull bits from other sources, but that should be our primary source and efforts should be made to match.  Thanks so much for helping us out TMBTM!

Finally, here is the best Star Tours footage I have.  It's 4:3, about 20 seconds cruising over the Death Star surface and entering the trench.  I think we could put about 10 of those seconds in the Falcon cockpit window and thereby make an effective additional shot.  I really feel it's worth it, and the quality is decent enough to be useful (might still need a little color correction, but I'll let a pro handle that).

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There are a few things I would like to add to the vote if I may.  Firstly I would like to push once more for the Bothan scene as I (very crudely) mocked up because I didn't really get much feedback on that.  I know it is possibly the most extravegant version suggested but I feel it would really set this apart from other edits. 

Also I would like to push for the idea of making Jabba's palace seedier.  I'm open to ideas on how but someone suggested using clips of other dancers and editing them in.  If we do then I would like to suggest using a redheaded girl which could then be Mara Jade (one of the only ideas from the EU that I like).  To anyone who doesn't like the EU it would just be a redheaded girl, and she wouldn't pop up again but to anyone who likes Mara Jade it could be Mara Jade.  Much in the same way as the Eclipse would be just another ship in the context of this film. 

I would also like to see a second sail barge added as per the original concept art.  I made a mock up of this ages ago and put forward an idea of how it could be dealt with but I am not at my computer at the moment so I will have to expand on this later.  Basically it wouldn't interfere with the story, but visually it would make Luke's survival and victory seem much more unlikely and thus impressive. 

I would also like to see more alien species mixed into the background as a part of the rebel forces on Endor (such as Wookiee commandos).  This would probably only be possible by shooting new footage, so I don't know if you would want to include this in the vote or not as we are uncertain on how practical that will be, but the idea is there if you would like to. 

Thats all I can think of at the moment but just wanted to get them down here before all the voting options are gathered for the final vote.  I wander though whether it would be worth holding off on this final vote for a touch longer until we have further discussed some of the more divided issues such as the Bothan scene, and some of the newer ideas like making Jabba's palace darker.