If something like that were done, you would have to simplify the message to the only thing everyone agrees on: just release the originals.
If you complicate the message with things like not liking prequels & changes, it becomes subjective and easily dismissed, and it doesn't even truthfully represent the views of all fans.
I would avoid like hell any even slight implication that he doesn't have the right to alter his films, because that's red meat for his counter-message. In fact, we should try to disarm him by explicitly stating that he does have this right and that we fully support it. It might complicate the message a bit, but it would be worth it to state it unambiguously.
EDIT: Argh, beat to the punch by... well, everyone.
I think it's vital to have the originals available for home and theatrical viewings.
What is the point of having a belated blu-ray if future generations can never have the experience of seeing the films in their original form in a cinema?
Any advert must call for such prints being made available in the same way other classic films can be requested by any small cinema to present.
CatBus said:
If something like that were done, you would have to simplify the message to the only thing everyone agrees on: just release the originals.
If you complicate the message with things like not liking prequels & changes, it becomes subjective and easily dismissed, and it doesn't even truthfully represent the views of all fans.
Exactly.
I don't know if Variety and the actual trade papers are what they once were. Wish we could get a banner ad on Nikki Finke/Deadline Hollywood, they all read that thing.
(Not sure what a banner ad for this would say exactly. Purely informative maybe, we could compare the time and dollar amount spent on ONE episode of the new Star Trek Next Gen vs. giving the Blade Runner '82 treatment to Star Wars. And then point out they are doing that for 105 more friggin' episodes. The labs don't release those numbers but we can guess pretty close. Or just push the historical, preservation angle)
The issue of Lucas changing the films would be irrelevant, nothing more than a bizarre, sometimes-interesting-sometimes-stupid side-story, which is always how I have treated it. It is what it is, and what that is is up to you to decide, but it ultimately is a separate issue from the OOT one. Lucas adding Jar Jar Binks to Return of the Jedi doesn't mean he can't also release the original. Even though there is a big anti-Lucas movement, that can sometimes be a big hindrance to us because people confuse one issue for another. I'm sure there are lots of people who would love to see the OOT but feel compelled to defend Lucas because people bash Jar Jar Binks, or the prequels, or whatever. It really makes no sense, and we bring it on ourselves by confusing the issues. It really sucks when an otherwise good piece on why the OOT needs to be restored gets ruined by someone who loses focus on the issue and starts putting emphasis on the crappiness of the prequels. I mean, yes, but at a certain point you also start alienating Lucas/prequel fans who--while not necessarily sharing any or many views with us, or even liking the films for the same reasons--nonetheless would be useful allies. While the fandom is and always will be divided over the prequels, almost every single person out there would say the originals should be preserved, and we tend to lose some useful activist because of their partisan politics. You could argue that is their fault--and I would agree--but in real life that doesn't accomplish much for either of us.
Baronlando said:
7FN said:
We could mention the many reasons that have - over the past decade - given rise to the current bad feeling between George and many of his fans.
I think there should be only ever be ONE thing to publicly hold against GL at this point, the OT. The other stuff is just matters of taste and we should 't be mixing that in with a concrete, legit issue.
Yes you're absolutely right, and I agree - was just throwing some ideas out there. The one thing we don't want is to come over as rabid nerdy type fans - coming over from the point of view of a fan of film is probably the way to go, sticking purely to the facts, and keeping emotions out of it. Focussing on the film history/preservation side of things only perhaps.
I'm sure with a banner headline like, "An open letter to George Lucas regarding film preservation" media curiosity would be peaked. Some carefully worded statements and questions to him couldn't really be ignored, assuming we managed to get an advert in Variety. Perhaps we might then get some famous names coming out of the woodwork if it was worded compellingly enough...
I would drop a few bucks into the donation pot as long as the message was clear that the fans want the original unaltered trilogy and it was worded appropriately.
He can make changes every year to the films if he wants and I'd probably buy them. As it stands now, I'll never buy anything from him again just as a matter of principle until he does this one thing for the fans.
Luke threw twice…maybe.
IIRC, just about anybody can take out an ad in Variety.
MST3K fans chipped in for a full page ad to try and save the show when the SciFi channel cancelled it. It cost about $4000, but that was in 1996.
Where were you in '77?
Baronlando said:
7FN said:
We could mention the many reasons that have - over the past decade - given rise to the current bad feeling between George and many of his fans.
I think there should be only ever be ONE thing to publicly hold against GL at this point, the OT. The other stuff is just matters of taste and we should 't be mixing that in with a concrete, legit issue.
My sentiments exactly. I don't personally like the PT or the SE, but I don't much care, I can just choose not to watch it. The OOT, however, is the big important issue (I suppose it's too much to ask that he release un-fucked version of THX-1138 and American Graffiti while he's at it).
Baronlando said:
I don't know if Variety and the actual trade papers are what they once were. Wish we could get a banner ad on Nikki Finke/Deadline Hollywood, they all read that thing.
(Not sure what a banner ad for this would say exactly. Purely informative maybe, we could compare the time and dollar amount spent on ONE episode of the new Star Trek Next Gen vs. giving the Blade Runner '82 treatment to Star Wars. And then point out they are doing that for 105 more friggin' episodes. The labs don't release those numbers but we can guess pretty close. Or just push the historical, preservation angle)
It would be good to point out that this is pretty much the only filmmaker in history who's been this straight-up revisionist (and with the aforementioned two films as well). Now, whether an ad in the rapidly-dying print media will mean anything is up for grabs, and even with Facebook and all of the other social media OOT fans have tried to use for rallying, and even with celeb support, so far it has been and will probably continue to be academic: the OOT is not out because Lucas doesn't want to release it, end of discussion.
althor1138 said:
I would drop a few bucks into the donation pot as long as the message was clear that the fans want the original unaltered trilogy and it was worded appropriately.
He can make changes every year to the films if he wants and I'd probably buy them. As it stands now, I'll never buy anything from him again just as a matter of principle until he does this one thing for the fans.
Like I said, it's bigger than Star Wars, but for me personally, I wold pay ANYTHING if the OOT was released PROPERLY, which is why what I'd always hoped they do was release in a big massive boxed set. Make no mistake, that wouldn't make me happy, but regardless of what it was priced, if it had a proper OOT release, I would pay.
Most of all though, this can't just be about Blu-Ray, because as other formats come, we need to stress the need for a release of it in all future formats. And I reiteration about THX and AG too, what's good for the goose is good for the gander, it has to be about the larger preservation issue and not our childhoods. Moreover, this HAS TO BE respectful. OOT fans have a deserved bum rap for lots of "Lucas raped my childhood" comments, this needs to be conducted respectfully and intelligently.
“What Orwell feared were those who would ban books. What Huxley feared was that there would be no reason to ban a book, for there would be no one who wanted to read one.”
Neil Postman, Amusing Ourselves to Death
Baronlando said:
7FN said:
We could mention the many reasons that have - over the past decade - given rise to the current bad feeling between George and many of his fans.
I think there should be only ever be ONE thing to publicly hold against GL at this point, the OT. The other stuff is just matters of taste and we should 't be mixing that in with a concrete, legit issue.
+1
nm
Mike O said:
Most of all though, this can't just be about Blu-Ray, because as other formats come, we need to stress the need for a release of it in all future formats.
Actually, I disagree here. Once a (35mm, 24fps) movie has a good Blu-Ray release, it's effectively preserved for posterity. Sure there are plenty of screwups with DNR and cyan/teal and all that, but assuming a PROPER transfer were done... that's it. I'm happy. Forever.
And that's part of what needs to be straightened out too. Lucas has successfully painted Star Wars fans as impossible to please. We need to illustrate that it's actually just the opposite. There's a movie out there called "Ernest Scared Stupid". It probably has fans. But those fans don't plaster the Internet with rage because you can get that movie on Blu Ray, and it's the exact same movie they would have seen in the theatre. They are satisfied. Star Wars fans are no harder to please than any other group of fans. They are just more dissatisfied than any other group of fans because the expectations they have--those same really easy-to-meet expectations all fans of all movies have--have been frustrated for well over a decade now. Fans of Star Wars envy fans of Ernest Scared Stupid.
I think this is an outstanding idea and I would be happy to donate.
CatBus said:
Mike O said:
Most of all though, this can't just be about Blu-Ray, because as other formats come, we need to stress the need for a release of it in all future formats.
Actually, I disagree here. Once a (35mm, 24fps) movie has a good Blu-Ray release, it's effectively preserved for posterity. Sure there are plenty of screwups with DNR and cyan/teal and all that, but assuming a PROPER transfer were done... that's it. I'm happy. Forever.
Agreed, I'd only add that IMO a movie can be considered preserved if there is a decent lossless master. Blu-Ray itself still has compression artefacts, which would probably show on a really big screen. I really don't think more resolution than 1080p is necessary (though it is welcome) but lossless is. So what I'm saying is yes, a movie is effectively preserved once properly released on BD, but only provided the lossless master made for the BD release is kept.
And that's part of what needs to be straightened out too. Lucas has successfully painted Star Wars fans as impossible to please. We need to illustrate that it's actually just the opposite. There's a movie out there called "Ernest Scared Stupid". It probably has fans. But those fans don't plaster the Internet with rage because you can get that movie on Blu Ray, and it's the exact same movie they would have seen in the theatre. They are satisfied. Star Wars fans are no harder to please than any other group of fans. They are just more dissatisfied than any other group of fans because the expectations they have--those same really easy-to-meet expectations all fans of all movies have--have been frustrated for well over a decade now. Fans of Star Wars envy fans of Ernest Scared Stupid.
Totally true. Also films like the Alien movies, Close Encounters, Blade Runner, Terminator films and others, all have different versions included in the same BD boxset, so like you say, we are not hard to please at all, we just want what is commonplace for fans of other franchises.
While I do certainly agree that the OT community has been given a bad rap of late, I have serious doubts that anything can change George's mind about releasing the originals on Blu-ray, at least in the form and quality that we want. I'm willing to bet that even if we got Stephen Spielberg himself on our side to say just release them already, George would still put his foot down and say no. All evidence up to this point is that George takes people telling him what to do as a vicious attack on him personally, even when it's simply meant to be taken as constructive criticism. I mean, the guy defied the USA's National Film Preservation Board for goodness sake, an institution he helped create!
George has charities.
Wouldn't it be a better use of funds to raise the money necessary to put an ad in Variety but instead donate the money to one of George's campaigns in a way that generates media interest.
A story along those lines would be better copy for papers like Variety and be financially more interesting than any single payment ad.
It would also be better use of the cash.
Though I underline the most important thing is the theatrical future of the original versions of the OT.
If a film can be seen in the cinema regularly it automatically exists as a potential money spinner in the home cinema market.
Searching around the Variety full page is ~8-10k.
To make a point both in reality and in the land of money. In three years when Star Wars gets a 3D release in theaters. By that time a fan scan of the movie might have been released. Sometime prior a campaign is started to get people on board of going to see the movie in theater, but not on opening day. On opening day the Variety ad goes out saying, "Thank you George for the great movie. As you won't preserve the film, we have. To prove to you our gratitude for the creation of this film we will go see your Star Wars in 3D on the second weekend." Then if the comparison number of opening day to second weekend are of some significance, a point could have been said to have been made.
or replace the going to see the movie with some donation idea. but when you're dealing with money, you're going to lose... The "it's HIS movie concept" is too easy a position to fortify.
Harmy said:
Totally true. Also films like the Alien movies, Close Encounters, Blade Runner, Terminator films and others, all have different versions included in the same BD boxset, so like you say, we are not hard to please at all, we just want what is commonplace for fans of other franchises.
Again, this isn't the only film Lucas has messed with either. Even if Star Wars does happen (Which it won't. Ever.), there's still the matter of THX 1138 or even American Graffiti, though I guess that's a minor change. This is a larger issue, and Lucas owns the stuff lock, stock, and barrel and can do whatever he pleases with impunity because, well, it's his. Raising public opinion will only go so far if we can't change his, and nothing will change his mind except him.
“What Orwell feared were those who would ban books. What Huxley feared was that there would be no reason to ban a book, for there would be no one who wanted to read one.”
Neil Postman, Amusing Ourselves to Death
Perhaps a general declaration about the preservation of original forms of movies would cover all bases better.
It would not be Star Wars centred (so less easy to dismiss as a nerd campaign).
It would not be George Lucas centred (so less likely to be construed as a personal attack on the man himself).
It would be generally inclusive but the media will obviously turn to the usual suspect (seeing as even the original theatrical version of TPM has been targeted for the bonfire it's even something PT fans could get behind).
Wexter said:
I think this is an outstanding idea and I would be happy to donate.
+ 1.
georgec said:
Guy is delusional beyond comprehension.
http://movies.msn.com/paralleluniverse/george-lucas-talks-star-wars-critics/story/feature/
Sure, George. Mean critics killed your future movies. It had nothing to do with your inflated ego, greed, and arrogance.
When did he ever mentioned critics? It's more like an assumption made by the article about TNYT's one.
Gossip article.
Bingowings said:
George has charities.
Wouldn't it be a better use of funds to raise the money necessary to put an ad in Variety but instead donate the money to one of George's campaigns in a way that generates media interest.
A story along those lines would be better copy for papers like Variety and be financially more interesting than any single payment ad.
It would also be better use of the cash.
Let's raise a million dollars, and say we'll either set it on fire or donate it to Edutopia dependant on if GL releases the OT.
I really like the idea of a massive coordinated showing of the Despecialized Editions in independent theatres, with voluntary donations going to support some cause nobody could possibly object to. Follow all the private showing rules: no concessions, etc.
Then, a week into it, switch from voluntary donations to a standard admission price, with 100% of it still going toward said charity, and start serving concessions. Whatever happens after that, from the best case to the worst case, we look good and Lucas looks like an ass.
EDIT: Convincing him is next to impossible, I agree. But public shaming is a powerful motivator, as is the fact that I suspect this could become hugely profitable for the independent theatres. And the large chain theatres may start asking where their audiences went, etc, etc...
Yeah, I really don't like the idea of getting arrested, looking good or not...
Harmy said:
Yeah, I really don't like the idea of getting arrested, looking good or not...
We'll bake you a cake with a file in it. Okay, decent point.