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It's Official: George Lucas hates his fans :P — Page 5

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Harmy said:

RLM review of the Red Tails:

http://redlettermedia.com/half-in-the-bag/red-tails/

It apparently sucks so much ass that it almost seems like George directed it himself ;-)

 

Haha damn you beat me to it! :P

I don't really have any intention of seeing this film, and based on Mike and Jay's review of it I think I chose wisely.

Watching the interview footage with Lucas was actually painful. How can the man have such a warped sense of reality? The studios turning you down was racism George? You don't think it was because they saw that your movie was crap right from the start? And also "One of the first all black action movies." ....Blaxploitation George. Ring any bells?

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The studios do distribute a load of crap films.

If this film is crap and I can't say it is because I haven't seen it but if it is I think the studio reaction (assuming that Lucas hasn't pulled that out of his bucket of chicken) is more to do with the financial downturn than race.

It does seem very cheap of George to play the race card defense.

What about the first major motion picture about gay airmen in World War 2 George?

Racism is a bigger social issue but cinematographically it's kind of covered, where as with gay American war heroes, male and/or female, there's a lot of room for coverage in there.

With conscription there must have been thousands of gay service men and women during the war.

So much so that even a bad film would be considered at least a step in the right direction.

George could have made one like Windtalkers only with gays speaking Polari and using the inscrutable hanky code instead of native Americans code talking in Cherokee and Choctaw.

 

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just saw the half in bag.  i guess I was wrong, lucas did go on his usual 'the studios are against me!' crap on that oprah show....and she fell for it - thinking this is the new color purple :(

and the apologists are spreading the talking points -"blacks finally have their john wayne movie!!" "its like those cool 40s movies, so it works that its intentionally bad!!!!"

good lord.  To use a completely un-original cliche -  the only color lucas gives a shit about is green.

some people are saying this is a surprise hit cuz it opened at #2 with $20 million.  I don't think so.  it was projected at $15 million by box office moj - so it exceeded that and I thought overall it would make 35-40 million.  that still wouldn't recoup the costs (now Im hearing it cost $93 million)

however, there is one thing that still interests me...he insists EVERY SINGLE studio turned him down....does this include Dreamworks and his ol' buddy Steven?

was spielberg invited to a screening and turned lucas down?

click here if lack of OOT got you down

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 (Edited)

I saw it last night and then discovered that red letter media had covered it when I got home. =P All of RLM's points are valid but it's not absolutely terrible. The beginning was terrible with really crappy acting but it got better shortly thereafter. Overall I liked it. It's not a great film but it is a fun one.

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You know, RLM hit the nail on the head when they said George Lucas had become somewhat of a real life Citizen Kane. It is sad that the man who helped create 3 pretty great movies in the 70s is reduced to blaming his fans for forcing (pun intended) him out of the business.

 

“It is only through interaction, through decision and choice, through confrontation, physical or mental, that the Force can grow within you.”
-Kreia, Jedi Master and Sith Lord

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Bingowings said:

 

The studios do distribute a load of crap films.

If this film is crap and I can't say it is because I haven't seen it but if it is I think the studio reaction (assuming that Lucas hasn't pulled that out of his bucket of chicken) is more to do with the financial downturn than race.

It does seem very cheap of George to play the race card.

What about the first major motion picture about gay airmen in World War 2 George?

Racism is a bigger social issue but cinematographically it's kind of covered, where as with gay American war heroes, male and/or female, there's a lot of room for coverage in there.

With conscription there must have been thousands of gay service men and women during the war.

So much so that even a bad film would be considered at least a step in the right direction. 

Studios are very frightened of any film that might be labeled a 'black movie.'

Robert Townsend said the studios delayed the relase of "Meteor Man" because it was a 'black movie' and they figured all the black people we seeing 'Menace 2 Society' that month.

"Spawn" had the studio insist a black character be recast as white to avoid making the audience think it was a 'black movie.'

And studies show the studios aren't completely off base.

I totally agree with you that a movie about gay soldiers would be a real step in the right direction.  If you ever see the movie "Enigma" (which i don't reccomend) they more or less replace gay-super genius warhero Alan Turing with a generic straight guy in a fictionalized retelling.

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TheBoost said:If you ever see the movie "Enigma" (which i don't reccomend) they more or less replace gay-super genius warhero Alan Turing with a generic straight guy in a fictionalized retelling.

No... Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

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TheBoost said:

Bingowings said:

 

The studios do distribute a load of crap films.

If this film is crap and I can't say it is because I haven't seen it but if it is I think the studio reaction (assuming that Lucas hasn't pulled that out of his bucket of chicken) is more to do with the financial downturn than race.

It does seem very cheap of George to play the race card.

What about the first major motion picture about gay airmen in World War 2 George?

Racism is a bigger social issue but cinematographically it's kind of covered, where as with gay American war heroes, male and/or female, there's a lot of room for coverage in there.

With conscription there must have been thousands of gay service men and women during the war.

So much so that even a bad film would be considered at least a step in the right direction. 

Studios are very frightened of any film that might be labeled a 'black movie.'

Robert Townsend said the studios delayed the relase of "Meteor Man" because it was a 'black movie' and they figured all the black people we seeing 'Menace 2 Society' that month.

"Spawn" had the studio insist a black character be recast as white to avoid making the audience think it was a 'black movie.'

And studies show the studios aren't completely off base.

I totally agree with you that a movie about gay soldiers would be a real step in the right direction.  If you ever see the movie "Enigma" (which i don't reccomend) they more or less replace gay-super genius warhero Alan Turing with a generic straight guy in a fictionalized retelling.

They don't seem to be too afraid of black comedies though. Or all those Tyler Perry movies independently distributed?

The studios were pretty quick to get on the Blacksploitation bandwagon after "Shaft", and just as quick to bail when the genre petered out. If Red Tails ends up making a profit, the other studios will take notice.

Forum Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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SilverWook said:


They don't seem to be too afraid of black comedies though.


Most of which are stupid stereotype vehicles that make blacks look bad.

Hmmm ...

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Bingowings said:

 

The studios do distribute a load of crap films.

If this film is crap and I can't say it is because I haven't seen it but if it is I think the studio reaction (assuming that Lucas hasn't pulled that out of his bucket of chicken) is more to do with the financial downturn than race.

It does seem very cheap of George to play the race card defense.

What about the first major motion picture about gay airmen in World War 2 George?

Racism is a bigger social issue but cinematographically it's kind of covered, where as with gay American war heroes, male and/or female, there's a lot of room for coverage in there.

With conscription there must have been thousands of gay service men and women during the war.

So much so that even a bad film would be considered at least a step in the right direction.

George could have made one like Windtalkers only with gays speaking Polari and using the inscrutable hanky code instead of native Americans code talking in Cherokee and Choctaw.

 

So......have you something to tell us Bingo?

:)

J

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I never discuss my war record.

But...

I must now confess...

*sigh*

I

am not

currently dark skinned.

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Oh I'm sorry old chap I keep forgetting wizened old prune faced Skaroian mutants can't do that particular trick.

Though the last time I was dark skinned my lips, eyelids and nose fell off, it was a hell of a mess but it scared the kiddies :-D

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p { margin-bottom: 0.21cm; }

One of the reason 'gay' movies aren't shown or marketed as often as other films in the USA, is largely due to the MPAA (Motion Picture Association of America) judging films in that vein as 'NC-17'.

For those of you who don't live in the United States (which I don't, so I'm sort of in a handicap here), the ratings system for motion pictures in the United States goes as follows:

G - General Audiences. All Ages Admitted.

PG - Parental Guidance Suggested. Some Material May Not Be Suitable For Children.

PG-13 - Parents Strongly Cautioned. Some Material May Be Inappropriate For Children Under 13.

R - Restricted. Children Under 17 Require Accompanying Parent or Adult Guardian.

NC-17 - No One 17 and Under Admitted.

In contrast to these, the categories that are currently used in the UK (of which I live currently) by the BBFC (British Board of Film Classification) are as follows:

U - 'Universal', Suitable for All

PG - General viewing, but some scenes may be unsuitable for young children

12/12a - Suitable for 12 years and over. No one younger than 12 may see a ‘12’ film in a cinema. No one younger than 12 may rent or buy a ‘12’ rated video work.

15 - Suitable only for 15 years and over. No one younger than 15 may see a ‘15’ film in a cinema. No one younger than 15 may rent or buy a ‘15’ rated video work.

18 -Suitable only for adults. No-one younger than 18 may see an ‘18’ film in a cinema. No-one younger than 18 may rent or buy an ‘18’ rated video.

R18 - To be shown only in specially licensed cinemas, or supplied only in licensed sex shops, and to adults of not less than 18 years

From the research I've done, the MPAA seems to treat homosexual material much more harshly than heterosexual material. (Although I'm judging this board by the documentary 'This Film has not yet been Rated' and the minimal research I've been able to do about this subject, so I may be wrong and out of date in my information.) In America, films that contain Homosexual behaviour tend to be rated harsher than films with Heterosexual behaviour.

For instance, A film which depicts a Heterosexuality in any way, may be rated 'R', whereas a film that depicts Homosexuality in any way will probably be rated 'NC-17'.

If an American motion picture company finds that, after a film has been made and is pretty much finished, the film is rated NC-17, said film will not receive any financial backing.

In America, an NC-17 is considered the commercial 'kiss of death' for films. In America, the idea that film is fit only for adults still has connotations if it being 'pornographic', 'smutty', 'indecent' or something outside the mainstream. Film studios will either cut films down after receiving the Rating or try to appeal to the MPAA for them to reconsider the rating and  change it to an 'R'. The NC-17 certificate was originally created because there wasn't a rating that could deal with grown-up films which weren't pornographic.

I'm not trying to make America out to be inferior in any way, I'm just talking about ratings and how they are applied. Here in Britain, an 18 rated film is perfectly acceptable. Here we don't have a problem with the idea that films are for adults only, but are still proper respectable movies.

Also what I find odd is that, in America, an R rating (which would probably be a 15 or an 18 here) can be viewed by anyone under the age of 17, provided there's an adult.

 

Sorry for the wall of text. I totally understand if it's tl;dr.

 

;)


 

<span style=“font-weight: bold;”>The Most Handsomest Guy on OT.com</span>

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There was some art house flick that played near me recently that was NC-17. And this is in a town where the title of "Kick Ass" was censored on the marquee!

First time I've noticed a NC-17 movie around here since the 90's. The local paper back then wouldn't even carry a listing for one. I'd like to think people have mellowed out over the rating, but you never know.

Having a adult guardian accompany a minor get the theater owner off the hook if the minor has nightmares for weeks afterward. Most chains check ages now, so kids sneaking into a R rated film is practically a lost art. Fangoria magazine once suggested kids pay for their ticket with a large bill, and ask about the snack bar.

There are so many movies with homoerotic elements that fly under the radar of the MPAA, I couldn't even begin to list them all. ;)

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Where were you in '77?

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SilverWook said:

There are so many movies with homoerotic elements that fly under the radar of the MPAA, I couldn't even begin to list them all. ;)

Top Gun? That movie is 2 hours of guys in towels high-fiving and slapping each other's butt.

“Grow up. These are my Disney's movies, not yours.”

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georgec said:

SilverWook said:

There are so many movies with homoerotic elements that fly under the radar of the MPAA, I couldn't even begin to list them all. ;)

Top Gun? That movie is 2 hours of guys in towels high-fiving and slapping each other's butt.

Totally

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dang...blast from the past.  funny,  tony scott never had the career ridley did.

this movie was a huge deal back in the day (i thought it was overrated, but I liked Kilmer and the movie sure beats Iron Eagle)...surprised there isn't a whole lot of hype over the 3d re-release.

hmmm...wonder what impact top gun had on lucas when he was thinking about red tails 20 years ago.

click here if lack of OOT got you down

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The possible mis-readings of that 'highway to the dangerzone' take my breath away (Xenu would not approve) :-O

Surely an inspirational movie for children with darker skin colour would be set in the present or the future?

Looking backwards always comes at the risk of nostalgia (literally a pain for the lost past) rather than pulling people forward.

That is one reason why I buy the claims of actors and astronauts which cite Star Trek's multi ethnic crew as being inspirational.

It might have showed a future where a black woman can aspire to being a glorified telephone operator who can kiss a white captain but it at least offered a future at a time when television was a bit thin on the ground about displaying a present for anyone other than a WASP.

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Being the vindictive fanboy that I am, I did have a sliver of hope that Red Tails wouldn't do well so that George would have a bomb and might be closer to rereleased the OOT, but that was wishful thinking. In all seriousness though, it is admirable for Lucas to get the Airmen's story out there. Obviously, we can speculate about his reasons, but think that's unfair conjecture and I'll give him the benefit of the doubt that intentions are noble. I'm hearing that the film is actually being criticized largely because many dissenters believe that the Airmen actually deserve a better film (I have absolutely no way of knowing whether or not this is true having not seen the film). However, it is sad that most "Black films" are stereotyped as that (and as a white boy from the suburbs, I'll admit that I do tend to think of Tyler Perry movie ads that way), but excepting him, there really isn't that much "Black entertainment," at least not that I know about, in mainstream cinema and TV. Now, music, with the commercial popularity of hip-hop (and I love lots of old soul and R&B) might be another matter. If it's sad that something has to be looked upon as a "Black movie," while Hollywood blockbusters aren't called "white films," well, I might be part of the problem. I'd be no means adverse to see a critically acclaimed film by a black filmmaker or about African American issues if it built some critical acclaim, (Boyz N the Hood, Menace II Society) but most of it looks like stuff I'm just not interested in (Tyler Perry, etc.). Then again, I could just be ignorant. I've certainly not ruled out the possibility.

“What Orwell feared were those who would ban books. What Huxley feared was that there would be no reason to ban a book, for there would be no one who wanted to read one.”

Neil Postman, Amusing Ourselves to Death

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Crazy idea time: perhaps us fans should club together, take out a fullpage ad in Variety, and respond to dear George telling him exactly WHY many people have issues with him, albeit in a well worded, and polite manner! Not only would this be a damn-near direct line of contact with him, but would likely stir up a hornet's nest amongst the media, whip up interest, so it couldn't be shoved under the carpet any longer...

We could mention the many reasons that have - over the past decade - given rise to the current bad feeling between George and many of his fans.

1) The fact many actually didn't like the prequels, and the to the point/succinct reasons why... (not in an attacking way, but well reasoned arguments).

2) The fact that a Special Edition shouldn't need revising every few years. Fix what needs fixing and move on. If he wants to tinker, then fine - but he must respect the fact once he's released these films to the PAYING PUBLIC, we DO have a say/opinion! These films aren't JUST HIS - if he's pissed off by negative reactions, don't release films to the public/paying audience...

3) The many additions aren't the problem per-se. The fact that many have been done in a hap-hazard manner, and created continuity errors (disappearing rocks; inconsistantly added Ewok eyes; extended doors which aren't extended on the inside; inconsitant saber effects; do we REALLY need 4 revisions of the Greedo shooting scene and so on).

4) (The BIGGY!) The simple reason that George could wipe out just about ALL the bad feelings towards himself/Lucasfilm by many, by releasing the original versions as a companion set to his preferred versions. Obviously many millions LOVE the original versions, we PAID again and again to see them, and own them for nearly two decades before he started his assault on them. The original cuts are part of American cultural history. You cannot release something to the paying public for years, then take it away and KEEP changing it, and not expect some bad feelings! IF he released both versions, he would make everyone happy, AND would do his bit to honour film history, and the artists who contributed to make the films as could as they could be, given the state of the art in 1977/80/83. Could end the ad on a simple WHY would you not want to do this?......

This shouldn't be a character assasination, but a well worded and thought provoking ad. that just about anyone reading would agree contained some important facts, and would open the door for Lucas to do some serious thinking about exactly WHAT he has against releasing both versions to keep people happy, AND honour film history...

Anyways folks.. just a crazy idea! I have NO idea how much it costs to take out an add in Variety, so perhaps this is utter dreamland/fantasy stuff, but since all the major players read it, it might just be the one way to REALLY get this out there once and for all. It couldn't be ignored then...

- 7FN

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7FN said:

We could mention the many reasons that have - over the past decade - given rise to the current bad feeling between George and many of his fans.

I think there should be only ever be ONE thing to publicly hold against GL at this point, the OT. The other stuff is just matters of taste and we should 't be mixing that in with a concrete, legit issue.

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7FN said:

Crazy idea time: perhaps us fans should club together, take out a fullpage ad in Variety.

This actually piqued my interest. I wonder how much money it would take to do this. But surely they only allow recognized representatives in (eg. studios, MPAA, famous directors, etc.). It would be a brilliant coup if this were somehow possible though. We could easily fundraise whatever fee they wanted.