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Originally posted by: die-jarjar-die
So as a now 30 yr old what do I like about the PT? Well the script sucks ass for the most part BUT the STORY kicks ass! The almost Shakespearian playout of events concerning the downfall of an entire Galaxy is incredible, & for that we must acknowledge George Lucas's skill at writing story. I am so intrigued by how the story plays out I cant stop thinking about where its heading next. Palpatine is slowly becoming my favourite villain in the Star Wars Saga, so cunning, so sly, so ingenious. Obviously we know Palpatine forges the Empire & the Jedi are hunted down & exterminated.....but how??? & why??? Do the Jedi confront Palpatine & Palpatine is forced to remove the threat b yany means necessary or does he use the Jedi's apparant involvement in secretly cloning an Army as evidence that they were preparing a military coup & thus branding them traitors & outlaws...these questions, & more, I hope to have answered in Episode 3, the shitty eye candy & dick jokes the kids can have, the Vader being transformed the gay fan boys can have, I'm just gonna be content with seeing how this EPIC story concludes.
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For all it's faults, plot holes isn't one of them!!
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1.) The trade dispute between Naboo and the federation is never explained. There is no motivation at all. Why does the Federation invade? what is it Naboo imports or exports to make blockading them worthwhile? Naboo is supposed to be a smallish out of the way world, why would the federation blockade it instead of some more high profile world, like say, Alderaan?
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2.) The Jedi wear the same robes Obi-Wan did in ANH. Kenobi was in *hiding*. He wore those clothes because everyone on tatooine wore simlar garb. If you're a Jedi in hiding, you don't wear your continue wearing your uniform.
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3.) Technology. It's a lot more advanced in the PT than in the OT. I'm sorry, but any argument about the T being in a better time for the galaxy is just bull. You seriously think the Empire would revert back to more primitive technology? There's a difference between ship design becoming more mechanical and utilitarian during the empire years than an actual about face in technology. Hell, if a 9 year old slave can builed a pod racer with a more sophisticated graphical user interface than the x-wing and tie fighters of the OT, then something is seriously wrong.
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4.) Protocol droids from 30 years before the OT are identical to the ones in the OT. Sorry, no advance in droid design in 30 years? I call shenanigans. The difference didn't have to be dramatic, but they should at least have made the effort.
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5.) Force Powers. The Jedi have the ability to run super fast in the beginning of TPM, yet, when that power would have become usefull at the end of the film, with Kenobi, Qui-Gon, Maul and the shield corridor (and don't even try to explain the logic behind that one) it disappears. Some will argue Obi was tired, I say bull. It's just more dramatic if he doesn't make it through, so we convieniently forget about that power for the time being.
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6.) Anakin built C-3PO? booooo. Yet somehow Kenobi, Vader, Owen Lars, and everyone who had ever come into contact with 3P0, and artoo for that matter, forget about them? Bull.
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7.) The Hyperdrive is Leaking. What? When in the OT or anywhere else has it ever been suggested that the hyperdrive uses any kind of fuel? The hyperdrive is not an engine, it's an apparatus which punches the ship out of normal space and into hyperspace. There would be nothing for the hyperdrive to leak.
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8.) Clone wars? what clone wars? These are clearly seperatist wars, that happen to be fought with clones.
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9.) The empire is only 20 years old? Did anyone watching ANH come to the conclusion that the Empire was a mere 20 years old? well, considering the Empire doesn't come into existence until episode 3, and that Luke and leia are born in episode 3, and that in ANH they're both 20, yup, the Empire is only 20 years old.
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10.) the general public in the OT don't believe in the Jedi anymore. How effective was the Emperor's smear campaign against them if in a matter of 20 years, everybody has forgotten them? Surely people in their 40's and up remember the Jedi? Surely those races who love a lot longer do to. What gives?
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because Palpatine told them to, because Padme was young and easy to maniputate, and remeber the line in TPM "our situation will create a sympathy vote for us." Palpi told them to in order to became the Supreme Chancelor.
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everyone thought he was dead, even the people on Tatooine, so why not? and no one knew that he was a jedi. and his robe were on exactly like the jedi robes in the PT. and i think there are alot of ppl in the galaxy that dress in robes.
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its not, and seriously this arguemnt is starting to f*ckin piss me off.
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the reason they LOOK more advanced is because they use CGI, but in fact if you were to look at it more carefully, then you woulds see that it is not more advanced.
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is there anything like a Death star in the PT
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the transports in AOTC look primitive in a sense,
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maybe you should read some of the SW novels like the thrawn trilogy, SDs are far far far more advance then anything in the PT. the Tie fighters are fast and more nimble than the Naboo fighters, as are the x-wings, and y-wings.
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ok, tell me why would you fix something that works.
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the droids were great then so why change what they look like.
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the other things that comes to minds is the fact that, in a civilization that has lasted for 4000 years, they have prefected driod design to the point where doing any more may not be productive.
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Originally posted by: Pagz
1.) The trade dispute between Naboo and the federation is never explained. There is no motivation at all. Why does the Federation invade? what is it Naboo imports or exports to make blockading them worthwhile? Naboo is supposed to be a smallish out of the way world, why would the federation blockade it instead of some more high profile world, like say, Alderaan?
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3.) Technology. It's a lot more advanced in the PT than in the OT. I'm sorry, but any argument about the PT being in a better time for the galaxy is just bull. You seriously think the Empire would revert back to more primitive technology? There's a difference between ship design becoming more mechanical and utilitarian during the empire years than an actual about face in technology. Hell, if a 9 year old slave can builed a pod racer with a more sophisticated graphical user interface than the x-wing and tie fighters of the OT, then something is seriously wrong.
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5.) Force Powers. The Jedi have the ability to run super fast in the beginning of TPM, yet, when that power would have become usefull at the end of the film, with Kenobi, Qui-Gon, Maul and the shield corridor (and don't even try to explain the logic behind that one) it disappears. Some will argue Obi was tired, I say bull. It's just more dramatic if he doesn't make it through, so we convieniently forget about that power for the time being.
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8.) Clone wars? what clone wars? These are clearly seperatist wars, that happen to be fought with clones.
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ok, tell me why would you fix something that works.
Let me answer your question with another. Why do car companies continue to put out new models every year? Why do electronics companies continue to make newer Televisions, microwaves, DVD players, stereos, VCRs, cell phones, etc... Just because the technology works, doesn't mean the manufacturers just stop. The key to competitive business is continual innovation to make your product more desirable than your competitors.
the droids were great then so why change what they look like.
For the same reason that car companies continue to produce new models and new designs.
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how many kids do you think truely understand what Lotr is about.
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Ok..................The Trade dispute is due to the HEAVY taxing BY THE REPUBLIC SENATE of space TRADING lanes used largely by THE TRADE FEDERATION. Outraged by having to pay more, on top of already extravagant taxes, the Trade Federation protest by blockading the taxations biggest supporter.....NABOO. Who is principal for getting the tax through the Senate?
Thats right.................. Palpatine.
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Who's responsible for ensuring the Trade Federation know who actioned the proposed taxation?
That's right..................Darth Sidious
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Ok thats a fair point...it's also one that I've heard since TPM came out & one that I don't really see a problem with. You have to remember that by the time the OT comes along the Rebellion has been a thorn in the side of the Empire for near on 20 years. After 20 years of fighting I'm pretty sure that the technology they're using would not so much take a step back from that used in the PT as be more hashed together. If we look back at our own history during World War 2 although weapons of war advanced (tanks, rockets, nuclear bombs read: At-At's, Star Destroyers, Death Star super laser), the ability to provide the raw materials to build these and other weapons/equipment for the soldiers began to run out, I remember reading that canvas was stretched over tanks where they had not enough steel to fully armour them.
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As fo the interfaces being more primitive in the OT.............well sorry to say it but YES IT IS DUE TO PRIMITIVE SFX AT THE TIME OF MAKING THE OT. I'm sure when the 468th release on dvd comes along someone at ILM will have touched them up & they'll be as super duper as they are in the PT. BTw on a personal note i was under the impression that the displays looked very similar to the Ot, but maybe thats just me!
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To be honest the only reason that is there is to seperate the 2 Jedi so 1 can be killed whilst the other watchs.....Nuff said!
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ok ok ok ok my last comment cuz im bored & tired now......................DOES STAR WARS EXIST IN A CAPITALIST SOCIETY? DO STAR WARS CHARACTERS SEEM OBSESSED WITH HAVING THE NEWEST T-16 SkyHopper TO BOMB AROUND IN OR DO THEY MERELY SEEM TO HAVE ONE SPACESHIP, ONE BLASTER & ONE SET OF CLOTHES (EXCEPT FOR PADME)?????????????????????????????????????????????? we're talking about science fiction here, not real life!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
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Does it REALLY matter that the droids they use in the PT are the same they use in the OT?
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OKay, where is all this information coming from? because it's certainly not coming from the movie. The opening crawl merely tells us that the taxation of trade routes is in dispute. That's it. If naboo was the primary supporter of the taxation, we need to find out about that, but even so, that does not neccessarily explain the blockade, and certainly not the invasion. Why blockade a small, out of the way planet like Naboo, when they could go after a much higher profile planet, say Alderaan. If they're trying to make a political point, blockading a small, peaceful planet is not the best way to go about it. Unfortunately, this still doesn't explain why the Trade Federation would invade the Naboo. What would there be for them to gain from it? Nothing. What could they lose? Everything. It seems to me that while the blockade possibly has political justifications (although they are never discussed in the film, which is a *big* problem) there is absolutely no reason for the Federation to escalate things by invading Naboo.
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Originally posted by: Luke SkywalkerQuote
how many kids do you think truely understand what Lotr is about.
hrm... im not lying when i say this but a monkey could understand LOTR... whats so complicated about the LOTR story?
its the simplicity of the story that captivates people...
they dont use works like Chancellor, Senate, Republic, Emergency Powers... what kinda kids are gonna know what these mean???
unless they watch CNN constantly...
lol
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OKay, where is all this information coming from? because it's certainly not coming from the movie. The opening crawl merely tells us that the taxation of trade routes is in dispute. That's it. If naboo was the primary supporter of the taxation, we need to find out about that, but even so, that does not neccessarily explain the blockade, and certainly not the invasion. Why blockade a small, out of the way planet like Naboo, when they could go after a much higher profile planet, say Alderaan. If they're trying to make a political point, blockading a small, peaceful planet is not the best way to go about it. Unfortunately, this still doesn't explain why the Trade Federation would invade the Naboo. What would there be for them to gain from it? Nothing. What could they lose? Everything. It seems to me that while the blockade possibly has political justifications (although they are never discussed in the film, which is a *big* problem) there is absolutely no reason for the Federation to escalate things by invading Naboo.
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Actually, I based that belief on several things. First, the fact that the Jedi had been wiped from the public conciousness. Something like that takes a long time, it's not something that could reasonably be done in a 20 year span. Too many people in the universe to remember how it was before. Too many long lived species like Hutts and Wookies to remember how it was. Second, Obi-Wan was pretty old, seemingly in his late 70's. He talked about being a jedi Knight during the clone wars, which were before the Empire. He also talked about meeting Luke's father, who was a star pilot. This suggested that they were roughly the same age, or he was just a little older. I got the distinct impression that The clone wars happened whiel Kenobi was in his 20's. Based on that, I had the empire's age estimated at roughly 40 or 50 years old, depending. Then of course, there's the Imperial Navy. So many commanders clearly in their late 40's and 50's. One does not get to be an admiral overnight. It seemed to me that a lot of these commanders would have had reasonably long careers in the imperial navy. Not to mention, calling it an Empire when it's 20 years old, sounds awfully presumptuous. It's not a word that generally gets attatched to things that have only been around for a short time. To me the word Empire suggests longevity as well as size.
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The difference here is that the Empire is not confined to a single continents worth of raw materials.
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Absolutely, it is because the effects were primitive in 77. The problem is that no effort was made in the PT to match the displays to the OT. Hence the impression of more advanced technology.
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I really wish he'd gone the route he did for the original trilogy, that is, writing the story, but leaving the script to professional, talented screenwriters. George is a good story man, but not a good writer. Why he continues to write them himself is a mystery to me. Oh well.
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Originally posted by: Pagz
Jimbo does have a talent for being... "popular" doesn't he
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because naboo is palpatines planet and it creates a sympathy vote for him.
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ok, in WW2 if Hitler had succeeded (which he came very very very close to doing) and he purged jews around the world, in a matter of years. in the late sixties how many ppl would really remeber the jew.
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that is a generation of people later with a facist government(the empire). there is alot that can be done in 20 years when you have a facist government.
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also to the point where the general public called the jedi magicians. well this mind set was around in TMP was well " what you think you are some sort of jedi trying to do mind tricks."
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yea but they are not defending and helping one continent together, the Galaxy is a big place, and this is a lot of fronts that need to be covered,
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and as for the rebellion, they aren't being funded and are building there own stuff. they don't have access to the big technology that the empire has.
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I should also add that the NJO takes place 25 years after the OT and the technology is relitively the same. mayeb the SW galaxy has reacched a point of techonologycal advancement where it is very hard to get better.
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its not the PTs fault that is looks better then the OT,
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i do to cus a good screen play script would have made it ez for most people to draw the conclusions that i have drawn about most of the plot holes that you have commented on. your are right it is a bad script in terms of connecting things i agree with you there but it is not a bad story.
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i can understand the whole discussion about the Rebellion not having any funding and therefore having to make due with what they have... but since the Empire does have control of most the galaxy.. wouldnt they have a substancial amount of money from their operations... and in that way couldn't they afford more advanced or better looking ships...
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