HOLY SMOKES !!! That looks really good!
Also the Leia frame looks just like the Legacy frame posted in this thread
http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/StarWarsLegacy-com-The-Official-Thread/post/544995/
Keep up the good work!
damn - thats an impressive upgrade
This looks REALLY good !
frank678 said:
HOLY SMOKES !!! That looks really good!
Also the Leia frame looks just like the Legacy frame posted in this thread
http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/StarWarsLegacy-com-The-Official-Thread/post/544995/
Keep up the good work!
Yeah, Mike's screenshots are the best reference we have so far.
There's a bit more red in his shot though, but when I tried to increase red in mine, other shots looked too red. So I'm still trying to find the best balance!
You_Too said:
frank678 said:
HOLY SMOKES !!! That looks really good!
Also the Leia frame looks just like the Legacy frame posted in this thread
http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/StarWarsLegacy-com-The-Official-Thread/post/544995/
Keep up the good work!
Yeah, Mike's screenshots are the best reference we have so far.
There's a bit more red in his shot though, but when I tried to increase red in mine, other shots looked too red. So I'm still trying to find the best balance!
Have you looked at the outtake in the Star Wars Begins documentary at around the 10.54 mark, it matches that too more or less
Interesting! It doesn't match but it reminds a lot of my current result.
I've updated my settings in post 4 now. Still keep in mind though that the crop values are for the PAL version.
Some more random comparisons with the raw GOUT:
In some shots like this last one with Obi-Wan, the colors turn out more saturated for some reason. Still trying to find some way to balance this as well.
Again this is based on no theoretical knowledge (someone please jump in if you can help) but I guess the colours that fade or get shaved off from fading prints or through generational/pixel loss are those colours that are the finest or most subtle, the sort of extra sparkle/lushness/brilliance that pushes an image over the top into becoming incredibly 'right' and lifelike. For this kind of thing ideally as soon as film print is made it should be scanned with the highest possible pixel resolution / color handling. Even the technicolor dye print must have some tiny degree of loss in it (if negligible). My point being is that pushing the colours that are there around will at some point reach a ceiling in one direction e.g. the flesh tone can't get anymore flesh tone. I'm guessing a person could introduce colour back in digitally - you would be repainting into the film. The trouble is I don't think this could ever be done with the subtlety of natural light on film (well they didn't manage it with Jabba in Special Edition I know that for certain)
This is not meant to be discouraging feedback at all , just when you get into the finer stages of this correction I reckon its going to get tougher!!!
Have you seen the colours on this page:
I know looking at loads of different sources can be confusing on the one hand but may narrow you in on the other. I guessing the last few corrections will have to done just by sense of what it would look a few steps on from one of the sources.
Its impressive what you have corrected in such a short time by the way and really shows up what little care was taken with the Gout release.
You could settle with what you've got so far but maybe you can dig out even more yet.
Hope you will post a clip also.
It is very hard to reach a "perfect" result without taking out each element in each frame and change the colors separately, so naturally, no matter what I do with this it won't look completely perfect.
I understand your point though, and I'm trying to make it as balanced as possible and to recover as much color as possible without oversaturating it. I won't go for the look of the JSC though since in my opinion there's either too much yellow or too much green overall.
The biggest problem right now, is that when using vibrance to dig up some desaturated colors, some scenes are affected in a bad way since the movie is very inconsistent with colors. Here's that rebel soldier closeup using my current script:
It's one of those shots that come out with a bit stronger colors.
Well the colour I'm sensing too much of in everything with the current settings is blue or the wrong kind of blue. I can only suggest broad changes like this as I don't understand how the settings inter-relate overall (?)
I won't go for the look of the JSC though since in my opinion there's either too much yellow or too much green overall.
Is that yellow/green shift the colours decaying in the JSC print to create a light yellow/green haze filter-within-the-film? Imagine what the colours look like under that yellow/green haze or where those yellow/greens washed from?
Yeah, Mike's screenshots are the best reference we have so far.
There's a bit more red in his shot though, but when I tried to increase red in mine, other shots looked too red. So I'm still trying to find the best balance!
Just an opinion but the colour in even Mike's screenshots seems 'off' somehow.
The resolution and detail are incredibly lifelike - but not the colours somehow.
Look at the colours in this compared to those Legacy frames:
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/687/14030018.jpg/
(All you have to do is make the GOUT match this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
frank678 said:
Just an opinion but the colour in even Mike's screenshots seems 'off' somehow.
The resolution and detail are incredibly lifelike - but not the colours somehow.
Of course they seem off. He hasn't corrected them yet! I won't say more though since he's asked us to keep it in his forum.
frank678 said:
Look at the colours in this compared to those Legacy frames:
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/687/14030018.jpg/
(All you have to do is make the GOUT match this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
First of all, those shots are all taken with a camera off a screen. Second, there's an obvious kinda yellow tint in that scene, at least in the shadows.
In GOUT, that scene is kinda cyan/blue-ish which means if I match it to that screenshot, more yellow scenes like some on Tatooine will be VERY yellow. The ending ceremony is also a bit too yellow already with my settings.
I think it's obvious that the GOUT comes from some much more inconsistent prints than the Senator version. Had the GOUT been sourced from a technicolor print, it would've been MUCH easier to dig up all that color the right way.
So bottom line, don't get your hopes up too high! I'm still trying to balance everything though, and to find a better way to increase saturation, so I might find a way to make it look better, but it won't ever be close to technicolor.
First of all - what are you trying to accomplish ? Are you trying to re-create the ORIGINAL colours of the theatrical version or are you trying to get colours which will "feel" correct ?
Second, there's an obvious kinda yellow tint in that scene, at least in the shadows.In GOUT, that scene is kinda cyan/blue-ish which means if I match it to that screenshot, more yellow scenes like some on Tatooine will be VERY yellow. The ending ceremony is also a bit too yellow already with my settings.
I think it's obvious that the GOUT comes from some much more inconsistent prints than the Senator version. Had the GOUT been sourced from a technicolor print, it would've been MUCH easier to dig up all that color the right way.
So bottom line, don't get your hopes up too high! I'm still trying to balance everything though, and to find a better way to increase saturation, so I might find a way to make it look better, but it won't ever be close to technicolor.
Well the way I imagine (i stress the word imagine) the light is falling and changing in the tantive corridor is like in this frame from 2001 - you see it can be blue in one corner and purple and yellow in another. Now the lighting in the tantive corridor wouldnt be anywhere as dark as this but this is how i explain the changes.
http://hopeliesat24framespersecond.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/7.jpg
The alternative is they were using different colour filters within the same sequence when shooting...
I can't really add any more ideas at this point without knowing more about how color correction is done. You may have to sit on this a while and wait for inspiration !
pittrek said:
First of all - what are you trying to accomplish ? Are you trying to re-create the ORIGINAL colours of the theatrical version or are you trying to get colours which will "feel" correct ?
To me the aim would be the original colours - what the film looked like on the film inside the camera, not what it looked like in the real world outside the camera.
But thinking about what the real world looked like outside the camera might help in working back to what ended up in the camera by deduction.
Of course they seem off. He hasn't corrected them yet! I won't say more though since he's asked us to keep it in his forum.
Understood. If you can get an invite to his forums he would probably be the best authority on what goes where, if he were willing to look at Gout correction.
pittrek said:
First of all - what are you trying to accomplish ? Are you trying to re-create the ORIGINAL colours of the theatrical version or are you trying to get colours which will "feel" correct ?
Like I said in the first post, I'm trying to make the best possible "one-setting" for the whole movie. Unfortunately I wouldn't be able to recreate the theatrical version that way, but I can correct the color errors that run through the whole movie. (For example too much red overall, yellows looking green, faces looking pink etc)
Actually I don't think I have the patience needed to do a scene by scene correction of the whole thing, (and that would also need more reference materials) but I feel this is a step in the right direction, just like my blu-ray settings.
frank678 said:
Understood. If you can get an invite to his forums he would probably be the best authority on what goes where, if he were willing to look at Gout correction.
I am a member of his forum but I know how busy he is with his own project so unless I really need some advice I don't think I'll bother him with this.
And I have to tell you, yesterday I made lots of new curves and settings and did some multiple settings with SatMask (vibrance) to try and only saturate the colors that most needed it. After some hours of trying a lot of stuff, I didn't manage to improve the settings I've already showed you, at least not much.
The thing I tried the most to fix was the hue of cyan, to make for example Obi-Wan's lightsaber look blue in the duel with Vader. I found that changing the hue of cyan affected not only lightsabers but many elements in the movie, I'll name a few: The rebel soldiers' shirts in the beginning, the sky on Tatooine, R2's hologram of Leia, Greedo's skin color, the Death Star interior and exterior walls.
Considering that, I might just settle with the current settings, or maybe tweak them slightly. Then I guess it's time to move on to ESB.
Considering that, I might just settle with the current settings, or maybe tweak them slightly. Then I guess it's time to move on to ESB.
That's cool. At least you found out the limit to what can be done with the Gout with one setting/curve. Are you able to post a short clip in due course of one of the scenes thats come out most successful?
frank678 said:
That's cool. At least you found out the limit to what can be done with the Gout with one setting/curve. Are you able to post a short clip in due course of one of the scenes thats come out most successful?
Yeah I guess I could post a clip sometime. Anyway, still some small tweaks to be done, and I'll also have to decide whether I'm gonna use vibrance or just raise saturation, since vibrance seems to affect dark scenes a bit more, making brighter scenes seem less saturated. We'll see!
Here are some more comparison shots:
nice work you_too. I like the look of those last few shots.
“In the future it will become even easier for old negatives to become lost and be “replaced” by new altered negatives. This would be a great loss to our society. Our cultural history must not be allowed to be rewritten.” - George Lucas
The last pics have a great "feel" to them
You_Too,
Most of these shots do really look great. I haven't gotten around to following your instructions for recreating at home it yet, but meanwhile I have sort of a dogmatic question. Obviously, you are putting a considerable amount of work into this. Is there a reason behind doing this type of adjustment for the whole film and not per scene? Is that a practical or technical limitation, or both? Just curious. I don't know what additional work it would imply compared to what you're doing already.
-DT
edited
Darth Tater said:
Obviously, you are putting a considerable amount of work into this.
Actually, compared to what Harmy is doing for example, I'd say I don't put much work into this. Maybe an hour or two per day. :)
Darth Tater said:
Is there a reason behind doing this type of adjustment for the whole film and not per scene? Is that a practical or technical limitation, or both? Just curious. I don't know what additional work it would imply compared to what you're doing already.
The reason is that the GOUT, just like the blu-ray, has some obvious color errors running through the entire film, and I think correcting those are first of all a step in the right direction, and it's also a good ground for anyone who would want to take the next step to do a complete scene by scene correction.
I'm not doing a scene by scene because last time I did such a huge project, I found myself working too much, being too perfectionist about things, and in the end I just felt burned out. So I guess the biggest limitation is simply my personality.
And there is a technical limitation to it as well, you see, if I really really wanted to do a scene by scene the correct way, I'd have to pick out every element of the frames somehow and color correct them separately. The reason for that is that the source doesn't have clean enough colors to be able to "dig up the original" from it.
For example, faces' skin color and lip color are melting together in the GOUT. So if I change the hue of red to make faces look less pink, the lips will end up with an unnatural color. I posted a picture earlier in the thread which is a good example of this:
Notice how in the theatrical scan, Tarkin's face has more separated colors while in the GOUT his whole face has pretty much the same hue.
So bottom line: A complete correction, scene by scene with separated frame elements, is beyond what I can and have the patience to do.
Of course, if anyone else knows a better way to correct the GOUT than what I'm doing, feel free to suggest something!