The Prequel Radical Redux Ideas Thread — Page 237

i can't remember if this has ever been suggested, but in AOTC, could Naboo and Coruscant be merged to form Alderaan? It would require alot of re-matting, and story tweaks, but would stop the two former planets from dominating the PT as much.

this could link with the idea that TPM heralded the beginning of the clone wars, and either a cold war, or a full scale separation has been occurring since. alderaan would act as a sort of switzerland/conference zone for the two sides.

the jedi council would only contact obi-wan and anakin through hologram - UNLESS they had a sort of iconic jedi council space station which they travel around in (like 2001 for us retro fans)

It sounds silly, but it's difficult to move or use footage from one PT movie to another because Obi Wan and Anakin both change their hair a lot.

Is there a way to digitally remove it? Any movies with Ewan McGregor in them where someone tells him to get a haircut?

The only way you could pull that stunt off would be to have the Jedi cloned too.

So one could be OB1 and the other OB2 ;-)

You might be joking, but on the SomethingAwful forums there are loads of people who genuinely believe that was the intention of naming him that all along.

<double post>

Davnes007 said:

It's already been suggested that Naboo be turned into Alderaan, but what would Coruscant need to be changed/merged?

This isn't the same logic as turning Naboo to Alderaan entirely as previously suggested. This is removing the repetitive environment of coruscant+naboo from the PT slightly, so they are not so repetitive. ie.

TPM Planets
Naboo
Tatooine
Coruscant

AOTC Planets
Alderaan (naboo/coruscant replacement)
Kamino
Tatooine
Geonosis

ROTS Planets
Coruscant
Utapau
Mustafar
Kashyyyk
(Misc inc. Alderaan, Asteroids, Naboo, Tatooine)

ANH Planets
Tatooine
Death Star
Yavin

ESB Planets
Hoth
Asteroids
Dagobah
Bespin

ROTJ Planets
Tatooine
Endor
Death Star II

Alderaan Changes - The whole idea of the planet would need to be re-visualised. It would need to be a metropolis at one point, and empty fields and lakes the next. I would argue to recreate the white city that mcquarrie came up with, and combine it with the period architecture and fashion we get in cloud city. We need a vision of a peaceful paradise.

Narrative Changes - If there was a way, the planet would need a brief exploring before Padme arrives, and the ship explodes. This is still an important storyline as it gets the Jedi into her apartment to protect her. If we have a backdrop of peace, then the explosion would seem even more shocking.

The speeder chase would need drastic editing, as the city would not pass as Alderaan. I would imagine that the chase would begin in the city, then move on to pastures and mountains. It could end perhaps in another urban environment like a floating station?

The Jedi temple could possibly be cut, but I always liked what SSWR did with that scene, as it casts anakin in such a good light, and sets windu up as a potential antagonist. The temple could therefor exist as a space station (which could be incorporated into TPM and ROTS edits). As the Alderaan conference is so important, the Jedi could have a security presence. This space station could also travel to Geonosis later on, although I would fancy it as purely defensive.

Anakin and Padme eloping would then be them moving out to a more remote part of the countryside. Perhaps even an inserted comment that the attackers would expect her to flee back to naboo could be added (i always thought it was a bit obvious). They would carry on as before, and would leave for tatooine as before, then go to geonosis - as before.

These are just IDEAS at the moment. And i haven't thought the entire thing through. Please give it some thought though, as I really think this could be a good thing to talk about. There are still BIG plotholes, but just think of ESB, this is sort of hoth and bespin rolled into one.

another idea for AOTC (and the wider PT) - that is NOT alderaan related.

what if COUNT DOOKU is really SIFO-DIAS?


in the OT, characters (although obvious ones such as the emperor, and jabba) are mentioned in films prior to their appearance. we don't get this in the PT. this elusive and mysterious persona - COUNT DOOKU - could be mentioned in TPM as the leader of their faction. we never meet him, or hear him speak, but he is there in the background.

i have always liked the idea of masking count dooku's identity somehow. previously i have always thought a mask could work, as then additional footage could be made for him much more easily, then when the identity is revealed, the mask comes off. it could be the big 'OMG its him' moment.

i also advocate the idea of starting the 'clone wars' conflict in TPM with naboo (although at this point we are missing the clones). an editor could change the SIFO DIAS name, as it sounds a bit stupid, and is too close to SIDIOUS.

the plot holes this would cause would be abound. i imagine this is better for SITH dooku as oppose to JEDI dooku.

What if all references to Sifo Dyas were replaced with Qui-Gon?

He died around the same time, he was Dooku's apprentice and has already anticipated the coming of the chosen one (and therefore the Sith), is a maverick who would have been on the council if he towed the line more etc. He creates it to defend the Republic from the storm to come.

Dooku has independently got basically the same idea by building a droid army to fight the Sith and restore freedom to the galaxy from the clone army he knows the Republic plan to create.

You would have to remove the Fett's from Geonosis (it makes no sense for him to be the clone template and the bodyguard of Dooku).

The problem with having qui-gon being the creator of the clone army, is that he believes that Anakin is the answer to all the galaxies problems (the problems being personified in the sith).

It could however be a cool revelation that the the clone army was designed for anakin to lead perhaps? (which does actually happen)

The PT though needs an obvious villain, who openly opposes the protagonists, the republic and the audience. Having Dooku mentioned and referred to in TPM, visually revealed in AOTC and defeated in ROTS could provide that surely?

I had no idea why Sifo Dyas wasn't Qui Gon. "He was killed almost 10 years ago." Hmmm, following the storytelling rule of show, don't tell, who did we see get killed ten years ago? Then Dooku says he's Qui Gon's master, that Qui Gon would have joined him - why is it some no-name Jedi?

Apparently, according to Wookieepedia, Sifo Dias deliberately sounded close to Sidious and would later be revealed as the same (in Ep III).  Of course there were far too many loose ends left for ROTS, so that plot thread ended up neglected, and it's my biggest pet peeve.  A novel or comic (can't remember which at the moment) was later created simply to answer this question, and it was just some lame-o new guy who really was named Sifo Dias.  I truly wish that plot thread hadn't left the entire AOTC tapestry so threadbare.  When I do find a set of PT edits that may be my definitive versions (thus far I'm simply open to variants of the tale), it will certainly have no such reference.

As for ben_danger's belief that there should be an obvious villain (something which struck me as odd when I first heard about it, but now is making sense to me), there is an interesting edit in the works, though currently on pause, that seems like it might remedy this situation quite nicely: Episode II: Army of the Republic.

It seems like it could remedy the problem nicely, and his episode I edit looks promising and I'm currently downloading it and hoping to give it a go when this semester is done.

I'm pretty excited for it. Seciors did a good job with Ep I.

Since the celebration scene at the end of TPM tends to be one of those things that ends up on the cutting room floor in fan edits, I got to thinking where else the rather catchy tune could be re-used so that it isn't lost:

http://youtu.be/PIJPOPkQ4Ag

So here it is used as an introduction to the Pod Race.  The Pod Race preperations have also been edited, based on edits done by Yads (who I think took his cues from another edit but I'm not sure) but rearranged to fit the new music.

^That's an interesting idea.  Instead of a split personality, though, it seems it would be better to somehow label Anakin as Palpatine's secret assassin, going on missions that the Jedi aren't even aware of, and that he uses a code name of Vader, or something like that.  He's already engaging in questionable actions, but the Jedi are unaware, and he still sees himself as a good guy.

Now that I said this, I guess this does nothing to preserve the "I am yo' daddy" surprise, but it perhaps makes his fall more believable and gradual instead of so sudden....

....Perhaps the opening crawl could indicate that Palpatine has begun to unleash several clandestine assassins throughout the galaxy to eliminate dissidents, that there is a rumor of a man named Vader wiping out political opponents, and also mention that Anakin has joined the ranks of his assassins, though the wording implies that the two are different.  Somehow throughout Ep III itself, an editor would have to make some minor allusions to Anakin's secret activities, but it seems a little dubbing might suffice.  Anakin would think he's enforcing order in a galaxy gone mad, then realizes the Emperor is a Sith.  He goes to face him and gets zapped.

But jonathan7, even if we managed to get this far, what would we do to show Palpatine unleashing lightning upon him, explain Palpatine's facial deformity (I wish they never included that in the first place), and explain why Mace never shows up again?  As you mentioned in the other thread, it would be necessary to insert an armored Vader into the fight with Obi-Wan and explain that too.

It's an interesting idea, but I'm still wondering about other parts of it.  I'd hate to lost the Obi-Wan/Anakin fight and the damage he receives because of that fight.  I was thinking maybe some parts of Mustafar could be moved to earlier in the film, maybe even showing Anakin taking out the Separatist leadership as part of his assassin duties before his actual true fall to the dark side, but how would he get back there?  I dunno, maybe I just can't have my cake and eat it too.  But I feel there's a lot of potential to your idea and would hate to give up on it.  Keep brainstorming!

jonathan7 said:

However this got my thinking, in relation to another idea in this thread... Split personalities. However instead of split personalities...

Either somewhere in AotC... or RotS credits start with reference to the Chancellor having a personal warrior called Vader working for the Republic to combat the Separatists... Vader is rumoured to be an ex-Jedi. The not exactly possible part would be possibly seeing Vader engaging in combat at some point... Obviously when Anakin isn't doing anything, as they are one and the same, but would be a shock. A bit like say Bruce Wayne and Batman, you never see them together. (and yes I know; how this would be done, or if's possible I don't know).

It's a shame this is impossible to do given the material we have, because this is an exceptionally inspired subplot.  You even see hints at something resembling it in the movies with Anakin always running off to Palpatine for one thing or another.  If they had gone this route you could have seen his "assignments" appear to get more and more questionable each time, until Anakin lost sight of what was right and wrong.

Actually, this reminds me of the Winter Soldier story arch from Captain America.  Basically the story goes like this: Captain America (in modern times) finds out that his friend Bucky is actually alive somehow.  Through the course of the story it's revealed that his seemingly innocent kid sidekick was given to him for a much darker purpose than he ever realized.  It was Bucky's job to do the things Cap's moral code wouldn't allow, sneak behind enemy lines and slit officer's throats, and tie up loose ends.  Cap was the righteous hero, but Bucky was the one who did the dirty work.  When he seemingly died, Bucky was found by the russians, rebuilt, and retrained into an assassin of the state.

Basically in this version; Obi-wan Kenobi is the golden boy of the republic and the jedi order during the clone wars, and his apprentice Anakin is seemingly innocuous but secretly "does what is necessary to preserve liberty" under the orders of the supreme chancellor.

jonathan7 said:

Hey, thanks for the reply, glad you think the idea is interesting! =) Must not of articulated myself well in the previous post, I was suggesting a split personality, but Vader (in the full usual Vader suit) and Anakin both appearing at different times. Not split personality as previously suggested, but Anakin in the Suit doing operations for Palpatine, which we wouldn't realise until the reveal in ESB.

My thinking was of the Vader charachter always being suited, i.e. Anakin wears the suit so no-one knows who he really is. Anakin learns that Palapatine is Sidious, confronts him gets zapped by force lighting and the audience then think he's dead. Mace goes to confront Sidious (he'd have to learn he was a Sith Lord elsewhere)... Mace is about to kill the Emperor when Vader in suits turns up and cuts his hand off... Then the Emperor sends Vader (again in suit) to storm the Jedi Temple.

The advantage of this I think, is it keeps the surprise of Anakin being Vader, especially if you just see Vader in a few shots working with Republic soldiers, while Anakin is still a Jedi. As with the Bruce Wayne/Batman thing you never see them together.

With regards the Anakin vs Obi-Wan fight my hope (not sure it's possible) would be to have it Vader vs Obi-Wan... i.e Vader already in suit fighting Obi-Wan, ends the same with Vader getting arms and legs cut off. So his breathing difficulties come from the fight with Sidious... His missing limbs from the fight with Obi-Wan.

Totally inspired and genius idea, and totally impossible. 

jonathan7 said:

Hey, thanks for the reply, glad you think the idea is interesting! =) Must not of articulated myself well in the previous post, I was not suggesting a split personality, but Vader (in the full usual Vader suit) and Anakin both appearing at different times. Not split personality as previously suggested, but Anakin in the Suit doing operations for Palpatine, which we wouldn't realise until the reveal in ESB.

My thinking was of the Vader charachter always being suited, i.e. Anakin wears the suit so no-one knows who he really is. Anakin learns that Palapatine is Sidious, confronts him gets zapped by force lighting and the audience then think he's dead. Mace goes to confront Sidious (he'd have to learn he was a Sith Lord elsewhere)... Mace is about to kill the Emperor when Vader in suits turns up and cuts his hand off... Then the Emperor sends Vader (again in suit) to storm the Jedi Temple.

The advantage of this I think, is it keeps the surprise of Anakin being Vader, especially if you just see Vader in a few shots working with Republic soldiers, while Anakin is still a Jedi. As with the Bruce Wayne/Batman thing you never see them together.

With regards the Anakin vs Obi-Wan fight my hope (not sure it's possible) would be to have it Vader vs Obi-Wan... i.e Vader already in suit fighting Obi-Wan, ends the same with Vader getting arms and legs cut off. So his breathing difficulties come from the fight with Sidious... His missing limbs from the fight with Obi-Wan.

Oh, I get it now.  I guess my idea was similar, though we would know Anakin is Vader, with the advantage over the original story being that Anakin's fall is more believable.  I'm still trying to think of how we could preserve the surprise in a manner that is more possible.  I'll keep thinking.

By the way, I think I fixed your above quote :)

coinilius said:

Since the celebration scene at the end of TPM tends to be one of those things that ends up on the cutting room floor in fan edits, I got to thinking where else the rather catchy tune could be re-used so that it isn't lost:

http://youtu.be/PIJPOPkQ4Ag

 

So here it is used as an introduction to the Pod Race.  The Pod Race preperations have also been edited, based on edits done by Yads (who I think took his cues from another edit but I'm not sure) but rearranged to fit the new music.

What if the Pod Race music was used for the celebration? I think it would be much more bearable.

timdiggerm said:

I really would miss the Sith theme sped up if you got rid of that celebration.

So would I, which is why I thought using it somewhere else could be interesting - I have been messing around with a  rough outline of a TPM menace which would have no Gungan's in it except for Jar-Jar (like nightstalkerpoet's Phantom Hour and Yad's Lone Gungan), so the celebration scene would have to be removed in an edit like that.