Collaborative Fanediting: An ROTJ Proposition (BACK ON TRACK WITH EMANSWFAN AT THE HELM--SEE POST 1488 OR OP FOR A LINK!) — Page 3

darth_ender said:

I hope my suggestion of keeping things closer to the original didn't turn anyone away.  I still hope we can keep a good energy for this.  My editing of the script is underway.  I imagine the biggest changes will be in the beginning and end.  When this is done (or perhaps when segments are done), I will post my progress which you guys can read and then provide suggestions.  I am being fairly conservative thus far in my edit, as I don't feel the plot needs as much work as others feel.  The biggest changes needed would be in the execution of certain scenes and plot points rather than the overall story.  However, as I said I'm open to ideas.  Posting your ideas here is a good way to keep the creative juices flowing, but when I submit a copy of the script for your consideration, I suggest you again provide any ideas you've already supplied with justification.

Spence edit has some good ideas, though it's not perfect IMHO.  Also the wishlist has great ideas.  Also getting ideas from the novel.  I think I can make this plot more intense with mostly what we already have at our disposal.

Is there anyone, by the way, who feels they have the skill to improve the quality of the deleted scenes?  If we could lock such a person in place, we may already have enough skill among existing volunteers to pull this thing off :)

I am glad that you are trying to be conservitive as I just watch the Spence final cut and like you said there is some really goos stuff in there it does chop to much out from Jabbas palace IMO Luke leaving does not make sense the ending seems a little bit muddled also on the proposed star destroyer. but it is a good effort no doubt.

I liked the way the fight between luke and Vader started immediatley after luke went to strike the emporer, and cuts of Hans Jelousy and droid torture.

@Darthender... Just as a note... Even though I like the Hot wire Idea to open the doors for the shield generator you must include Leia getting shot on Endor immediately before Vader speaks to Luke and finds out about his sister / daughter. Leia being shot is key to revealing the secret as luke would sense leia was in pain thus revealing her.

I have had some more ideas about developing more psychological scenes in regard to Luke and Vader.....

After yoda Dies we see Luke leave for Tatooine, Prob at this point cut to Vader goes to DSII as I suggested befoe we would see him come through beggers canyon. While he is flying he will remeber Vader pursuing him down the trench of DSI (flash Back scene of Vader targeting Luke "I have you now!"... followed by the shot of luke in the cockpit composited into the canyon backdrop of after he shoots the torpedos into the deathstar evhaust port so he would look a bit scared after this vision of Vader. X-wing flying through the canyon would be a CGI job if anyone likes this idea....probably use existing x-wing footage on Real Rocky Canyon footage or stills.

I like somones Idea of Luke Talking to Ben In his House on tatooine  I suggest this is where he goes or the rendevouz point this would also allow for the deleted scene of Vader speaking to Luke asking him to join him on the darkside and it is the only way.

After Leaving Tatooine when luke would look at his damaged Hand we would see another flashback it being chopped off again and Vader reaching out to him "telling him we can rule the galaxy as father and son" followed by the usual "keeping a promise to an old friend"

Luke then goes to the Cave on Dagobah but we do not see what happens after he goes in but we hear audio line of yoda about "the place is alltogether evil" Luke would need to be wearing the Orange Jump Suit though. Alternativley you could move Obi-wan back to this point. But you would have to do the Cave scene suggested as there would be no reason to go back to Dagobah otherwise as Ben is a ghost.

I am tring to develop more a sense of lukes confusion about his father this would also remind us how strong Vader is. also.

@Angel don't see why the Lightsabre needs removing he could have just been modifying it on tatooine or just finishing it. It does not need removing waste of time IMO

Angel said:
@jonathan7:i would never use same footage or shots from other movies for the sake of story telling or executing an idea.

Thanks as always for comments and replies.  Angel, I'm still not sure I'll use the scene, but given that you say compositing a different background shouldn't be that hard, and now that I've actually watched the Dagobah scene as opposed to going by memory, it could actually be a conceivable change.  Luke's lightsaber it turns out is never actually visible on Dagobah.  Guess I should have watched it before I wrote :)

So while I'm touching up the sequence of scenes for the beginning, my thoughts are turning again to the Battle of Endor, focusing more on the space battle.  It would nice to see more Mon Calamari cruisers, and I'm thinking in particular that they should be more engaged in the destruction of the Executor.  As of this moment, I believe that the most heavy work in this edit would be the needed CGI vessels engaged in battle, and I hope either of you feels you could do it.  I found (actually re-found) a website that would be useful in showing more Mon Cal ships, as it has great photos of the various models (and illustrations from other sources as well, but they're not as important unless you wanted to include them).

http://www.theforce.net/swtc/mcc.html

I also am thinking about trying to reincorporate some of Madine's scenes.  Many of his lines are the same as Ackbar's leading me to believe they probably were debating who would actually lead the battle.  But if some shots of him could be included along with another Mon Cal crusier, we might be able to make a more interesting capital ship battle.

A more epic space battle would be very cool....slamming some photon torpedos into the executor would always work!

@darth ender... I can do some sound editing work if neccesary....

please submit your idea structure... Are you still thinking of keeping the Bothan escape? The good thing about this is the fact you can move Vader to a later point IMO and make the time frame feasible for the deleted scene talking to Luke and have a classic star wars opening too...

Give us a rough idea of what you are thinking chronologically...

I would like to see the Han and leia Jelous guy stuff gone and the droid torture. Lapti Nek restored original sarlac restored. Bobba Fett I will look into later.

Please read my edited previous post and tell me what you think about trying to flesh out Luke and Vader at Distance and Lukes Mind. Before later seeing Vaders Mind in the second Half of the Edit. The Psychology really might bring quite alot to the story making it more unpredictable if you had never seen it before.

I actually did some video mock-ups for some new shots for the RotJ battle a few months ago. I'll see if I can upload 'em. 

 

@alanfae nice :) would be good to see

I am thinking about the spence edit and the way Luke confronting Vader Played out...

I think it more or less needs to be as it is in the Spence edit with no cut away after luke tries to strike the emporer but after Vader throws his sabre keep the cut to Endor Battle scenes end with Leia being shot then luke and vader cat and mouse inclusion of the discovery of Leia being sister /daughter then follow this sequence right through to the end do not cut away even when he says so be it Jedi keep that rolling until the emperor is killed by Vader. Then resume the Darthenders Idea of Han "I Got it" opens the doors. and that sequence plays out with expanded space battle..

The Executor Idea did not work IMO on Spence Edit so what about the Corusant ideas anyone have any?

My Thoughts....

If it's on Corusant have Luke leave corusant with dead Vader before the Endor shield generator even gets blown up. this way you give the time also for Lukes transition back to Endor but we would not need to see that apart from a departing shot from Corusant simply Composite existing shot without fireballs.

If it is on DSII then you have a long wait before Luke leaves with Dead Vader especially if it would be expanded space battle...... Realised after watching Spence Edit that was too long to wait but this would be ridiculous If you plan on expanded space battle.

It must go to Corusant some how I feel. in this case it would require 2  transitional shots leaving Endor and hyperspace then coming back at a later point on out of Hyperspace / Arriving Corusant up to throne room. this might mean Luke departing at an earlier point in the sequence than at the momment also..

The plus side to Corusant is that it gets eveerything out the way more quickly with the final confrontation.

I will try to have my script done in the next few days.  I know it might not seem like a lot of work changing an already existing script around, but I don't have a whole lot of free time, even with school out.  When I get it done you can see what my current structure will be.  As I said, it's only a draft anyway, so we can then debate more significant structural changes then.  At this point I'm honestly working largely on existing footage, be it the official film or deleted scenes.  I haven't really thought of adding too many entirely new things just yet, such as Coruscant, or even the commandos in action I keep talking about.  We'll get there soon.

Aalenfae, I would love to see any and all ROTJ mockups, as they could give my script some more direction during these vague points we've suggested.  I'm very excited to see them.

I really don't think Coruscant would work in the end - the way the movie works out. It would be cool, but I'm not sure what that would do to the tension, having Luke millions of light years away from the action.



On a different note, here's my video mock-up
http://vimeo.com/33865588

Keep in mind that it's JUST a mock-up, so don't expect completed/good-looking effects or anything.  

aalenfae said:

I really don't think Coruscant would work in the end - the way the movie works out. It would be cool, but I'm not sure what that would do to the tension, having Luke millions of light years away from the action.



On a different note, here's my video mock-up
http://vimeo.com/33865588

Keep in mind that it's JUST a mock-up, so don't expect completed/good-looking effects or anything.  

Wow wish I could do stuff like that!

really like the speeding A-Wing Footage thought that was really good.

And you just inspired me for the conundrum i was in over luke leaving DSII

I know what you are saying about corusant... If final confrontation stays on DSII which is better IMO actually the only fix I can think of is when the executor slams into the DSII would be the exit point for Luke? Atleast not so long to wait.

I think perhaps that is the answer to fix it all!!!

What say you Alanfae?

Aalenfae, I know that was just a mockup, but it's an excellent start!  I'd love to see Mon Cal ships broadsiding the Executor and taking a great deal of punishment as well, including Home One.  This is partly why I want to see if I can reintegrate some dubbed Madine shots.  We could see multiple ships engaging the Executor.  I wish we could see more Madine in action, including this shot:

This is probably too difficult a task, but is there any way to show some of the motion from the revealed deleted scenes, and then turn it into something like this?  What I guess I mean is, can the existing footage be altered to show his face go from ordinary to excited while the Executor or Death Star blows up outside his window and lights the whole bridge?  This shot could be used as some sort of basis, but I don't know if this is too ambitious an idea.

aalenfae said:

I really don't think Coruscant would work in the end - the way the movie works out. It would be cool, but I'm not sure what that would do to the tension, having Luke millions of light years away from the action.



On a different note, here's my video mock-up
http://vimeo.com/33865588

Keep in mind that it's JUST a mock-up, so don't expect completed/good-looking effects or anything.  

It obviously needs some work, but exciting stuff either way. I really love that close up of the A-Wings. Awesome. 

Just thinking here. Right after this is where the A-Wing flies into the Executor. What if the A-Wing fired a missile instead?

If the shots of Madine are possible would that make sabre toothed ewoks possible? I think it would make them scarier...

Finally got around to watching the Lost Rebels. Some interesting stuff. I think the scenes on the Falcon are in such good condition their just asking to be used. Maybe not so much the random shots of soldiers running around, but those guys on the turrets should definitely be put in. Maybe that guy doing repairs too. The Mon Cal and the Sullustian pilots should be worked in too, their quality isn't too bad. Neither is Madine, who should show up at least twice I think.

Also, can any of the footage from this be used in the battle?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrnuGT5KxnU

I think the idea with Coruscant was to have Endor be a moon of Coruscant where it was built in secret, with the DSII prepping to blow up Coruscant as retaliation for the riots. That way everything is close by, and Luke can still look out the window and see the fighting.

I love the new CGI footage you did Aalenfae. However, I think one of the weaknesses that the "fall of the executor" has is that it actually took three fighters to have it down, which is very little for the biggest ship done after the DS's. 

Not a problem of your material, but the theatrical ROTJ. Two A-wings to blow up the shield? If the shield is so vulnerable, then it's coherent that the rest of the ship can fall so easily...

Greetings!

^This is why I feel the script needs additional ships to be involved in the attack.  I think if several capital ships engage in the battle, focusing their fire on the bridge section, then two fighters being the straws that broke the camel's back might be more believable.  Perhaps if it were made clearer that they were firing concussion missiles rather than simple laser blasts (what it looks like to me), then it might also come off better.

I agree about the lost Rebel footage and I'm going to try to include as much as possible, probably having to do some rough cuts with my Windows Live Movie Maker software as a template for those with the better toys.

I'm personally not a big fan of Coruscant being a significant plot point, both because of what I perceive as unrealistic (let's blow up the capital to stop the riots) and also it just doesn't seem to make sense story-wise.  It just seems like people are fishing for something more exotic.  If Endor orbits Coruscant and it is essentially background, that would be visually interesting, but I can't see a logical story reason to include it without some drastic rewriting of the whole movie.

I know I'm a nerd, but I didn't know what song was Across the Stars till tonight when I finally looked it up.  It's a pretty piece and would be neat to include somewhere, though the only place that seems truly fitting might be where Luke and Leia are talking about their mother.

A song I feel we might want to consider weaving into this movie somewhere might be the Death Star theme from A New Hope.  It essentially served as the bad guy song for the first movie, and I personally find it powerful and intimidating.  Perhaps some dramatic Death Star II reveal could include this piece.

Sorry to take so long on this early step folks.  I'll get it done soon.

darth_ender said:

^This is why I feel the script needs additional ships to be involved in the attack.  I think if several capital ships engage in the battle, focusing their fire on the bridge section, then two fighters being the straws that broke the camel's back might be more believable.  Perhaps if it were made clearer that they were firing concussion missiles rather than simple laser blasts (what it looks like to me), then it might also come off better.

I agree about the lost Rebel footage and I'm going to try to include as much as possible, probably having to do some rough cuts with my Windows Live Movie Maker software as a template for those with the better toys.

I'm personally not a big fan of Coruscant being a significant plot point, both because of what I perceive as unrealistic (let's blow up the capital to stop the riots) and also it just doesn't seem to make sense story-wise.  It just seems like people are fishing for something more exotic.  If Endor orbits Coruscant and it is essentially background, that would be visually interesting, but I can't see a logical story reason to include it without some drastic rewriting of the whole movie.

I know I'm a nerd, but I didn't know what song was Across the Stars till tonight when I finally looked it up.  It's a pretty piece and would be neat to include somewhere, though the only place that seems truly fitting might be where Luke and Leia are talking about their mother.

A song I feel we might want to consider weaving into this movie somewhere might be the Death Star theme from A New Hope.  It essentially served as the bad guy song for the first movie, and I personally find it powerful and intimidating.  Perhaps some dramatic Death Star II reveal could include this piece.

Sorry to take so long on this early step folks.  I'll get it done soon.

I feel very strongly about what I'm about to say, so bear with me here:

I feel like ROTJ should feature a LOT of callbacks to previous themes in the Saga, seeing how it's the final film.  Some ideas I was thinking of were:

1. Duel of the Fates playing during parts of the space battle.

2. Across the Stars playing once or twice during very quiet moments pertaining to Luke/Vader and Luke/Leia/Mom

3. The Death Star theme, as previously mentioned. 

Anybody think this is a good idea? And if so, is there any other pieces of music you feel should be integrated?

Coruscant is there to bring everything full circle. If we're counting on the prequels being there or heck even the Thrawn books, then Coruscant is where large things happen. It wouldn't be to stop the riots, it would be a show of force that would cleanly remove a large amount of the galaxy's population, which would just make things simpler for the Empire. The "riots" might also be just full-on rebel control of the planet.

The DSII is so massive that all the Imperial aristocracy could live there and just screw everyone else. Blowing up Coruscant is the next step up from blowing up Alderaan, just as the DSII is the next step up from the DS.  The original drafts of this movie had things taking place on Coruscant, or Had Abaddon as it was known at the time. It also had Luke using Yoda's spirit as a literal shield, so take it as you will.

I don't have any personal stake in the Coruscant idea either way, but I wanted to explain it to people like Aalenfae who might work on it.

Vladius said:

Coruscant is there to bring everything full circle. If we're counting on the prequels being there or heck even the Thrawn books, then Coruscant is where large things happen. It wouldn't be to stop the riots, it would be a show of force that would cleanly remove a large amount of the galaxy's population, which would just make things simpler for the Empire. The "riots" might also be just full-on rebel control of the planet.

The DSII is so massive that all the Imperial aristocracy could live there and just screw everyone else. Blowing up Coruscant is the next step up from blowing up Alderaan, just as the DSII is the next step up from the DS.  The original drafts of this movie had things taking place on Coruscant, or Had Abaddon as it was known at the time. It also had Luke using Yoda's spirit as a literal shield, so take it as you will.

I don't have any personal stake in the Coruscant idea either way, but I wanted to explain it to people like Aalenfae who might work on it.

Sure, why not?

Military installations in Coruscant add massivness, while don't require much CGI, just the mattes. However, heavy rotoscoping tho.

I've been playing with that idea for a couple of days. If we make this scene happen in Coruscant, we basically are "free" (which isn't necesarly good) to do any other exterior shot in the Luke plot-line. Vader with the source of his power on his back (the Empire), while Luke looking in the distance to "civil" Coruscant could be a nice idea of what's going on there.

While I'm not a mock up expert like Angel, I find several things in the images that called my attention. One of them, the roundness of what should be straight lines, I left it in an independent image.

In the first pic, the perspective on the floor is weird and I had to touch it though didn't solve it fully. Fake plateau, forced perspective?

I mean by this that while I like the idea of the set, and I'd keep it, the built set has many things to correct if it enters an AE surgery room. So I'd rather Roto just the characters, which I guess it's less work compared to all the metalic triangles you had to roto out otherwise; and then make the rest on another stage (with straight railings, proper perscpective, etc).

Greetings!

3rd Act Structure - ROTJ Low Fat *EDIT*

No Added Colours or preservatives

http://www.mediafire.com/?u2m3nkdcb6hazr4

I Like the Corusant Idea, and those mock ups are awesome! but is perhaps not needed

check the structure of the movie above this includes Darth Enders Take of Endor for which I agree wholeheartedly with his ideas, the rest is my Vision of how the sequence unfolds I chopped loads of stuff about and cannot be bothered to write a change list because it would take too long as the clip runs at 40mins so practically 1/3 the movie.

Essentially I tried to cut down the amount of plot at any one time as this is the main reason IMO what the final act suffers from most... Too much flitting about between DSII / ENDOR / Space battle and tried to get to the end of a plot in the shortest time possible.let me know your thoughts on the fix I have attempted.

Added Etherial Obi-wan Speaks to Vader (Not sure if this works Mithrandir)

Whilst also Luke not telling Leia she is his sister as it seemed better for Luke to protect her in her own ignorance as well as Leia being shot makes luke reveal her to Vader . Removed Hans Jelousy and other stupid shananigans.

I think it feels a bit darker than the original. Let me know what are your thoughts.

I was thinking about this idea for a long time. Actually placing missiles to star wars crafts especialy if i can guess homing missiles it actualy makes the scenery a bit more generic as scifi. everyone has missiles. Maybe introduce some Ywing bombs or at least give a special attribute to the fighters that we didnt got deep with them appart the videogames(ion cannons, bombs, proton torpetoes etc)

-Angel

 

This is a very good idea... Bombs on Y-wings and Missiles on Capital Ships would make sense... The A-Wings had that big Blue Ball can't remember what it's called.

B-wings had nothing special about them :( but they look good

after watching the Spence final Cut which had some real bad transition IMO I think Luke needs to Return to Dagobah...

The Cave is Ambiguous and Mysterious so it's artistic License that he goes back there, also it is the test he failed before facing Vader the first time. It's a get out of jail free card I know but I cannot stress this enough we don't need to see anything more other than Luke goes in.The Audience will make the rest up.... Later we see him talk to Ben on Dagobah before joining back up with the rebel fleet. Confirming the Plot regarding Leia and Vader is his Father.

Correction to my Earlier Post on this - Luke is wearing the Black Jedi Outfit when he enters the cave for the second time in my version of events.

So far as music is concerned I think that across the stars is title crawl music no Fanfare at the end...IMO

Death star Theme IMO works for battle scenes. Asteroid March Song would also Work.

Duel of fates would work well perhaps too space battle elements.