Warbler said:
darth_ender said: I will never understanding how someone can feel so passionately about women's rights that they feel justified in removing the right to life of another human.
while I am not pro-choice, I'll try to explain the logic used by the other side. It's as simple as this: they don't believe they are taking the right of life away from another human. They don't believe the fetus is a human yet. They believe you become a human when born, therefore to them the fetus is not human life. Since, to them, a fetus is not human life, it does not have human rights.
I think you speak for pro-choice people way too casually for someone who isn't one himself. While I agree, there is a large population that likes to believe it as you have explained it, but there are plenty of pro-choice people, myself included, who do admit that a fetus is, scientifically and by definition, a human life form. Everyone else is just trying to sell something, make themselves feel better, or split hairs to confuse the dumb masses, or are one of the dumb masses themselves.
It is human. It has it's own unique human DNA.
CP3S said:
darth_ender said:
How can we protect the lives of endangered animals and plants, yet treat unborn human life as trivial because we are not endangered? I'll never understand it. But you're welcome to try to make me. I'm ready to be outnumbered, but I assure you I am will not cop out on this topic.
Because we are selfish, and they take a lot of work and get in our way, and each one of them is pretty close to a 20 year investment.
It doesn't have to be a 20 year investment. I am sure you've heard of adoption. It really only needs to be a 9 month investment.
Have you looked into the adoption system? Foster homes and orphanages? Not as ideal of a situation as you'd like to think. End up with some pretty screwed up people from these kinds of places too.
And the repercussions of child bearing don't disappear after the ninth month... Not even necessarily nine months after that.
Also, you have to take care of yourself to bring a healthy baby into the world, a lot of women aren't prepared to do that. Do we force them to carry their babies to term, and if so does that mean we have to force them to sustain from alcohol, tobacco, and other perfectly legal things that may be harmful to the child we are forcing them to have?
again, you are deciding for the child, that the child is better off dead than alive. You are playing God.
I'm not playing God. No one is playing God. We are talking about an unborn person who requires living inside your body in order to stay alive. There are a lot of things a pregnant woman can do to her body to screw up and potentially kill the baby inside her. How is that playing God?
Until we do, I think it preferable that the fetus remain inside the mother until born.
And if the mother doesn't want it there? Tough?
twister111 said:
However if a woman doesn't want a kid for various reasons why force her to go through all that? Yes a life will be lost, but shouldn't she have the right to self defence?
a fetus taking nutrients isn't what I'd call an attack needing to be defended from.
This is typically the problem with the abortion debate. It is usually carried out by guys who are quick to brush it off and make comments like the above. Try being pregnant then making the same claim that it isn't an attack. Pregnancy can be extremely uncomfortable, and can do a lot to harm the mother's health.
twister111 said:
All that said yes I realize a kid can be a wonderful, wondrous, and inspiring bit of joy to enter someone's life. I just recognize that the situation isn't completely black and white. There are too many variables to every situation to conclusively say "Yes you must keep the kid alive, because we say so!"
I wouldn't put it "because we say so!" I would put it: " you must keep the kid alive cause murder is wrong."
And it is murder because we say so.
The word "murder" is properly used in reference to an unlawful killing, not just any killing in general.
theprequelsrule said:
I feel that the opposition to abortion, from the ancient world to today, is based on keeping women under control of men.
I don't wish to be rude but that is bs. I have no desire to "keep women under the control men".
You sure about that? Again, when you make your pro-life statements, make sure you take into consideration the fact that you are opposing the right to a choice you'll never have to make by any kind of stretch of the imagination. You're opposing the right of other people to a choice you'll never be faced with.