They often looked weird in movement, they had a kind of strobe effect, which was totally inconsistent with all the other films. And yeah, the pointy ends were pretty stupid too.
Harmy said:
They often looked weird in movement, they had a kind of strobe effect, which was totally inconsistent with all the other films. And yeah, the pointy ends were pretty stupid too.
Meh, that never bothered me at all, except for the pointy stuff. Personal preference I guess.
I think the "strobe" effect was probably added to make them look more like the OT sabers - an attempt to replicate the hand-drawn look of the originals. Also, many times the pointy tips make the sabers look flat, like they looked in ANH.
The biggest problem with the sabers is the color of the blue, which made them look really fake and ugly.
Everything looks amazing, but I have wondered why Vader's saber looks so short at 1:12 on the clip. Anyone else spot this? It's always looked that way.
Sevb32 said:
Everything looks amazing, but I have wondered why Vader's saber looks so short at 1:12 on the clip. Anyone else spot this? It's always looked that way.
It's the angle he is holding it at. The saber is the correct length.
Finally got to watch this here at work.
Awesome vid. So many subtle improvements and tweaks. Very appreciated.
Thank you so much for the clip, Ady!
I've been sick in bed for almost a month now and your clip has cheered me up a lot. Thank you!!! :)
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A couple of questions:
(1) was Vader's sabre orange-red, or should it be more into the pure red spectrum? Vader's sabre seemed to have a bit more orange in the clip you provided.
(2) will there be any added lightsabre lighting after-effects, similar to Vader's sabre casting a slight red glow on Luke's eye in the carbonite chamber? There is a scene specifically when Vader says "You're beaten!" and points his sabre a few inches from Luke's face and there is no light cast-off despite the proximity.
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I think the saber looking orange is an effect caused by seeing it side by side with the pink one. It probably looks better on its own.
Put Captain Solo in the Cargo Hold said:
I think the saber looking orange is an effect caused by seeing it side by side with the pink one. It probably looks better on its own.
That's true.
The saber also seemed red-orange to me, but I just chalked it up to watching it on a laptop screen, just about the worst when it comes to accurate color.
Monroville said:
A couple of questions:
(2) will there be any added lightsabre lighting after-effects, similar to Vader's sabre casting a slight red glow on Luke's eye in the carbonite chamber? There is a scene specifically when Vader says "You're beaten!" and points his sabre a few inches from Luke's face and there is no light cast-off despite the proximity.
+2 but i suspect that its an old clip with no final efects on it.
Its interesting tho watching the duel with the glowless lightsabers i noticed that the motion in the two footages are not a perfect match. At first i was wondering why they look slow down and for what reason. But at the end i m positive that adywan used the non effects footage (6:40) and re rotoscope the sabers on top while rotoing the proper colors and backgrounds.
An interesting take on this no doubt a clever way to avoid the glows.
I wish more effectless shots were available cleaned so further adjustment will be aplied.
-Angel
euroherbal said:
Thank you so much for the clip, Ady!
I've been sick in bed for almost a month now and your clip has cheered me up a lot. Thank you!!! :)
Sorry to hear that, matesy......hope you're on the mend!
J
Jaitea said:
euroherbal said:
Thank you so much for the clip, Ady!
I've been sick in bed for almost a month now and your clip has cheered me up a lot. Thank you!!! :)
Sorry to hear that, matesy......hope you're on the mend!
J
Thanks Mr. J... I'm being a very good boy, I promise! ;)
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Sorry, but you only get one to give.Angel said:
+2
Okay, I said I'd come back with a rundown of the various reasons (big and small) why the latest ESB:R clip is so fantastic, so here goes -
Shot of Falcon take-off - Falcon is a bit smaller in frame so that it seems to have taken-off from the middle of circular platform now. / A shadow underneath the Falcon has been added to the circular platform now / Landing gear retracts now. / Blue engine glow added now. / New sky and clouds added now. / New buildings which match SE additions now. / Lots of distant spacecraft activity added now.
Shot of first view of the 'Vane' - 3D effect 'zoom-in' now. / Altered-shaped 'Vane' with enlarged 'sphere' that's plausibly-scaled to contain the 'Carbon Chamber' now (the other unseen 'half' of the 'sphere' would equally jut out on the other side of the 'Vane', of course). / 2 vertical 'steam outlet pipes' added to 'sphere' now. / Window on side of 'Vane' is better scaled smaller now, and positioned nearer to front edge of it now, which matches with later 'close-ups' better. / 'Gantry' that Vader and Luke duel on has been shortened for better scale. / Front edge of 'Vane' widens gradually towards it's base now, which matches later 'close-ups' better. / An extra red light added under the middle of the 'Vane' base now, to match the 3 lights seen underneath it later on. / Unfinished bit of background detail on right of frame at start of shot added now. / A row of red 'vents' added all the way around background now. / A couple of tiny blinking yellow lights seen nearby the 'doorway' of the 'Vane' have been removed now, to better match the 'close-up' shots, where there were only blinking yellow lights on the top of the 'walkway' railings.
Shot of 1st 'close-up' of the 'Vane' as Luke enters doorway - Front of 'Vane' gets gradually wider below 'walkway' without a 'bend' in the structure now, in a way which properly matches the shape seen in the previous shot. / Window is moved higher and further back above 'walkway' now. / Additional yellow railing light added below window on left of frame now. / 'Dotted line' of background lights on bottom of frame (that are now white instead of orange) have been removed now, to match the fact that they should be lower down the chasm wall as seen in the previous shot. / Red 'vents' added in background to match position of ones seen in the previous shot now.
Vader and Luke's lightsabers are vibrantly re-rotoscoped throughout this sequence now (and the whole edit of course), with Vader's a satisfying RED instead of PINK, and now also include additional 'contact' glows when they clash together.
Shot of 2nd 'close-up' of the 'Vane' as Vader and Luke clash at doorway - Front of 'Vane' gets gradually wider below 'walkway' without a 'bend' in the structure here now, in a way which properly matches the shape seen in the first shot of the 'Vane'. / Window is moved higher above 'walkway' now. / Very bottom of 'sphere' containing 'Carbon Chamber' added above window now. / 'Walkway' at side of 'Vane' is extended past window to match how it looks in the first shot of the 'Vane' now. / 'Dotted line' of background lights on bottom of frame (that are now white instead of orange) have been removed here too now, to match the fact that they should be lower down the chasm wall as seen in the first shot of the 'Vane'. / Background wall details on the left of the frame are re-angled now, and the long vertical 'strip' seen in the first shot of the 'Vane' has been added, and we can also see the top tip of the 'stem' that attaches the 'Vane' to the long 'strip' here now too. / Hint of smoke added to railing now when Vader's lightsaber strikes it.
Shot of 'close-up' of Vader and Luke's clash at doorway - Railing is cut due to Vader's lightsaber strike now. / Hint of smoke added to cut railing. / Glowing scorchmark added near doorway due to Vader's 2nd lightsaber strike now.
Shot of overhead view of the duel - Background chasm wall is a lot more vibrant with more defined details now. / Bright outer glow around lightsabers which caused patchy edges against the matte background have been removed now, and we can see Vader and Luke much clearer overall. / 'Dotted line' of background lights below 'gantry' are uniformly orange all the way around now. / 'Gantry' steps and floor panels are visible now, instead of being hidden in darkness. / Bright reflective flashes light up the 'gantry' now when the lightsabers clash. / 'Rocket'-shaped section at the very end of the 'gantry' has been moved over a little to match it's position on the full-sized 'prop'. / Yellow railing lights glow brighter now, to match other shots. / 2 yellow railing lights that were missing beside the 3 posts that Vader slices through, have now been added. / Sparks that continue on for too long after Vader hits the railing on his left side are removed to match the other railing cuts now.
Shot of Vader slicing through 3 posts - The sliced posts have orange glows added to where they are sliced now. / Silver tape on the posts have now been blackened out now to better match how they look in later shots.
Shot of Luke's hand being cut off - Vader's lightsaber actually cuts through Luke's wrist now, rather than just hitting Luke's lightsaber hilt. / Luke's severed arm is shortened a little once hand is cut off, so that it doesn't seem too long anymore. / Red colour added to some 'missing'/darkened 'vents' on background now.
Vader's lightsaber is seen to retract at one point now, rather than being suddenly off in the next shot of Vader.
Blue light reflections on Vader and the sliced posts have been removed now, as there is no blue light source nearby.
In Luke's first 'close-up' as he hangs onto the very end of the 'gantry', his jacket doesn't stick out so far now, so that it doesn't look like he's hiding his not-really-cut-off-hand inside it.
Shot of chasm that Luke looks down at - Chasm backdrop has been 'flipped' upside-down now. / White lights and long vertical 'strip' that run down the side of the chasm have been re-positioned now.
1st shot of Luke falling down chasm - Chasm backdrop has been 'flipped' upside-down now. / White lights and long vertical 'strip' that run down the side of the chasm have been re-positioned now. / Luke is 'reversed' as he falls now, so that his correct hand is missing.
2nd shot of Luke falling down chasm - The 'Vane' is moved up further from our viewpoint now, and it's 'stem' now matches the length of the 'stem' seen in the first shot of the 'Vane'. / Extra white lights added to strip on chasm wall now. / Luke starts to fall further from our viewpoint now, and is 'reversed' as he falls now, so that his correct hand is missing.
...and all the above is wrapped in a far better re-colouration than the existing version too, of course.
PHEW! Tremendous stuff.
adywan, I know you've mentioned that the final version of your Xmas clip is likely to have a few additional minor tweaks yet, but here's a few thoughts I'd still like to bring up about this at this point -
1. I've only studied this clip on my laptop screen, so the details are very small and I can't see if you've added a faint orange (or black?) 'scorch mark'/'lightsaber burn' to the 'Vane' immediately after Vader takes his 2nd swipe at Luke near the doorway, or not...
Here's how things look in your clip immediately after Vader's 2nd swipe -
...I think you've added a brief hint of 'smoke' here, but if you haven't already, do you think you could add a hint of the 'scorch' behind the railing too? (perhaps only as thick as the faint 'panel lines' that are just visible nearby?)...as it would probably be noticeable on a bigger monitor, and would tie-in nicely with when we then cut to the still glowing 'scorch mark'/'lightsaber burn' that you've added to the 'close-up' afterwards.
Or would it be too hidden behind the 'walkway' railing at the angle we see Vader swiping twice anyway? I can't really tell from the small screen size I'm looking at, unfortunately, but see what you think.
Also - In the above shot, you'll notice that I've 'arrowed' the 2 RED lights that you've added on your new vertical 'strip' running down the chasm wall here...
...but I reckon it might be neat to see them added to the vertical 'strip' in the establishing shot of the 'Vane' below too, if possible...as they seem to be missing here...
Here's how things look at the very start of the shot -
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2. I'm pleased to see that you've 'filled in' some of the 'missing'/darkened 'vents' with RED now... I brought this issue up recently, and am still interested to know if you're planning to 'fill in' any more of them, or not?
For easy reference, I've described/shown the relevant shots to do with these further down this particular post here. Just scroll down a little - MISSING RED VENTS
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3. Although I REALLY like the fact that you've made Vader's lightsaber 'blade' retract now, I have to be honest (you wouldn't want it any other way) and say I personally prefer the look of the original 'hilt' that was seen in this shot below...and think that your retracting 'blade' might seem even better if it was seen to extinguish into that extra little bit of the 'hilt' that we see in the original version...or alternatively, if your 'hilt' end was 'shaped' a little differently here...
Here's what I mean - for the sake of a recap, here's how the 'hilt's end looks in the shot shortly before it's 'retracted'...
...and here's a 'rotational' example of the various 'angles' of the lightsaber's 'opening' end...and I especially like the way it looks at the very end of this clip - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LatF7r2cpXw
...and here's another good example which gives a good look at 'angles' of the 'opening' end, once the rendering kicks in - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQYDTosOIm8
Again, see what you think, but even if you don't want to keep the original 'hilt', I still reckon that your shot might look a little better if you could show a 'diagonal'-looking 'angle' of the 'hilt's end, instead of the 'rounded' way you've previewed here. It would just look more like the 'end' of a lightsaber, if you know what I mean. Only my own opinion at the end of the day, so no worries.
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4. At this point, it seems that there was a missing orange light in the background. I see you've re-coloured it in the 2nd comparison shot below that I've 'arrowed', but I wonder if it should be nearer in hue to the lighter orange ones seen in the rest of the 'dotted line' here? Also, will you be re-colouring the one in the 1st comparison below that's still missing, too?...
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5. I'm curious about why your version of the chasm in the 1st comparison below seems to be 'squeezed' narrower in shape compared to the original? Although your version has been 'flipped' upside-down, it should still look as equally 'circular' overall as the original blu-ray version surely? - it's easier to notice how 'squeezed' yours looks if you compare the shape of the 2 sets of black holes and the 'dotted lines' of orange lights near the bottom... Your version definately has an 'oval' look to it here, and seems less 'wide' when watching the clip now...
...strangely however, your later shot of the chasm in the 2nd comparison below is perfectly fine, as it looks just as 'circular' overall as the original shot here...
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6. Finally, I'm still wondering if it's possible for you to re-colour/'whiten' the 'yellowish' lights seen in certain shots, for better continuity, or not?...as well as perhaps add some of the missing 'tubing' to the end of the 'gantry?...
For easy reference, I've described/shown the various issues to do with these further down this previous post here. Just scroll down a little - YELLOWISH LIGHTS AND MISSING TUBING
And before anyone 'starts'...I *know* these are all 'trivial', 'unimportant' things...but so are several things that adywan has thankfully tweaked in the clip anyway... 
Good post ImpFighter. :)
-Angel
ImperialFighter said:
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3. Although I REALLY like the fact that you've made Vader's lightsaber 'blade' retract now, I have to be honest (you wouldn't want it any other way) and say I personally prefer the look of the original 'hilt' that was seen in this shot below...and think that your retracting 'blade' might seem even better if it was seen to extinguish into that extra little bit of the 'hilt' that we see in the original version...or alternatively, if your 'hilt' end was 'shaped' a little differently here...
Here's what I mean - for the sake of a recap, here's how the 'hilt's end looks in the shot shortly before it's retracted...
Seconded. The original saber looks more real with the tapering emitter and the fact the blade in your version is retracting into blackness as opposed to being able to see the tapering emitter behind might be contributing to the retracting looking "a bit wrong". Also the new emitter doesn't match the previous shot which appears to be facing a different direction.
I'm just curious what the reason was for the change. The one in the original shot is still a Heiland/MPP camera flash saber prop, no?
The attention to the detail is remarkable for sure. i like the small edge that appears when vader cuts the rail.
But if you notice closely adywan added a few frames with additional sparks. Compare it with the original sparks appear in the film in this shot, they are more blured and over exposured when ady's are sharp and rescaled(meaning very detailed for their size). I think the effect needs a bit more work :)
-Angel
ImperialFighter, the flipped shot of the chasm has only been flipped. Nothing else has been done to it apart from colour correction so the shape of it remains exactly the same as the original.
As for the hilt , the pictures you posted actually show why it was changed. Look at the position he is holding it and you will see that the shorter section of the tip is central between his thumb and forefinger. Then we see the close-up when it retracts and we are seeing it from the view of the back f his hand so we shouldn't see the emitter at all but the back of the saber. You can see this also in the shots after the closeup which way he is holding it. So if we were to see the emitter then he would have had to twisted his lightsaber 108 degrees for one shot only to twist it back in the following shots. For the new tip i took a photograph of the replica Vader hilt i have in the correct position it should be and rotoscoped that in.
ImperialFighter said:
1. I've only studied this clip on my laptop screen, so the details are very small and I can't see if you've added a faint orange (or black?) 'scorch mark'/'lightsaber burn' to the 'Vane' immediately after Vader takes his 2nd swipe at Luke near the doorway, or not...
Here's how things look in your clip immediately after Vader's 2nd swipe -
...I think you've added a brief hint of 'smoke' here, but if you haven't already, do you think you could add a hint of the 'scorch' behind the railing too? (perhaps only as thick as the faint 'panel lines' that are just visible nearby?)...as it would probably be noticeable on a bigger monitor, and would tie-in nicely with when we then cut to the still glowing 'scorch mark'/'lightsaber burn' that you've added to the 'close-up' afterwards.
Or would it be too hidden behind the 'walkway' railing at the angle we see Vader swiping twice anyway? I can't really tell from the small screen size I'm looking at, unfortunately, but see what you think.
The scorch mark behind the railings has been added in that clip. It is visible when viewed on a larger screen
Love it.adywan said:
For the new tip i took a photograph of the replica Vader hilt i have in the correct position it should be and rotoscoped that in.
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That amount of detailed analysis is far beyond me... But I will agree it looks bloody good...
adywan said:
The scorch mark behind the railings has been added in that clip. It is visible when viewed on a larger screen
Ah, that's good to know.
I guess that thing concerning the 'squeezed' chasm must be some kind of 'optical illusion' after all, but it still seems that way to me when I look at that 1st comparison shot of the chasm I posted above. When I 'flip' the original version upside down, it seems fine, yet your 'flipped' one underneath seems differently shaped somehow. Strange.
Anyway, thanks for those answers, and I look forward to seeing if anything happens with the rest of my points eventually.
I would like to bring the slowly retracting saber point up again. You mentioned that it could take between 4-8 frames. Having heard that people believe that it is too slow, are you considering dropping it closer to 4?
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