Bingowings said:
This old fossil sums up how I believe the Ewoks should be represented :
And a fossil of my own. (My first upload, in fact).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwOjAgaxE10
Luckily, my Vegas skills have improved immensely.
Star Wars Episode XXX: Erica Strikes Back
If you want Nice, go to France
That recut endor battle was good!
I'd say its far form finished - ideas wise - but you have got around a few conundrums that i've struggled with myself, so this could start to be bounced around a bit i hope!
I think we could still lose some of the ewok shenanigans later on, but i like the idea of the shield generator being blown up mid battle. i could imagine the sounds of the distant battle echoing down the halls.
I agree with ben_danger - some good ideas in there as to how to restructure the Endor battle. In this turn of events you can see the Ewoks as being more of a wild card in the battle; surprise and sheer numbers works in their favour to catch the Stormtroopers off-guard initially.
TI agree that some real editing must be done, excising some of the most silly Ewok stuff, repositioning more of their early failures vs. their later success in battle, etc. This is definitely not my attempt at an edit, but is exactly what ben_danger suggested: an idea to be bounced around for the real talent to consider. Hopefully it's a good idea. Thanks for the compliments guys :) Any specific suggestions for its improvement?
I really liked that rough edit of the battle.
I didn't like some of the Battle For Endor shots, though. The sound and visual effects of the weapons in that don't match the Imperial ones, and in one shot you could even see one of the attackers from that movie, who was obviously not a stormtrooper. Besides those issues, though, I felt it worked pretty well.
I might be addicted to calzones.
Using the deleted scenes from the first attempt at blowing up the generator to show the second attempt seems really great, even if we do lose "You rebel scum!" I'm still in favor of putting in more of "The Lost Rebels", but I certainly like this as a concept. It's about time someone actually put together some sort of loose cut after all this discussion.
I made no attempt to work out the audio for anything, so there are several hard cuts in audio, the video coloring looks different, and there is that obviously different shooter from the Battle for Endor. I had the thought that maybe someone could edit in a stormtrooper, but I don't know if it would be easy or even worthwhile. There was far less than I expected when quickly viewing the Ewoks footage because so many shots showed those cheesy bad guys, took place with an Ewok village in the background, or showed the Ewoks being even sillier than in ROTJ. I don't know if any of it should be used at all, but maybe a few small clips could be usable (with corrections to the laser bolts and accompanying sound effects).
Yeah, it's a pity to lost the Rebel scum line, but I think it was a minor sacrifice compared to the hopefully more desperate scenario. By lost Rebels, I assume you mean the deleted space battle stuff? I agree that it should be inserted as well. I also would include Jerjerrod debating whether he should truly blow up Endor. I don't have the blu rays, and it's all deleted from YouTube, so I can't add more at the present. I don't know how much time I'll have to work on further editing, but I may have more since winter break starts after I take my last final this evening. I know I will never be much of a real editor though, so all my efforts are simply suggestions to the talented folks.
Thanks again for comments. Hopefully someone picks up on these ideas and wants to use them.
EDIT: Ah, nuts! Looks like Vimeo deleted it. I'll have to think of something else.
Made some further changes and will find somewhere to upload it soon. I put Chewbacca's capture of the AT-ST after the Ewoks destroy the other walkers to give the impression that such was the final nail in the coffin for the Imperial forces. I will never make it a perfect edit, but it's a bit better. There are other changes. I'll post a link when I get it upped.
http://www.4shared.com/get/nB48vWw2/edited_Battle_of_Endor.html
The promised changes to the revised Battle of Endor. Sorry you have to download to watch, and I know it's not nearly as fun as ESB:R. Still, I hope those seeking inspiration for ROTJ edits find it enjoyable :)
I wanted to gather all my ideas of the ROTJ space battle, though I know I've mentioned some of this before. I don't have a specific play by play in mind yet.
Several ships should crash into the Death Star shield, as mentioned by Jambe Davdar in Returning to Jedi:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWHWm7ZPnK0#t=01h48m15s
B-wings don't disappear after dodging the Death Star shield
More cockpit shots, both from deleted scenes, and likely from filming new shots as well, including representation from other races, species, and the majority of sexes (meaning newly filmed females as well as redubbing the female pilot's voice (probably a British female, as Bingowings once suggested :). Also it might be cool to see the two person Y-wing cockpit at least once, but I know how people here feel about the EU.
Other ships, including Naboo fighters, BTL-B Y-wing (I personally thought these were pretty cool from the CGI Clone Wars show), Z-95 Headhunters, Aggressive ReConnaissance starfighters (X-wing-type ships from ROTS), Victory-class Star Destroyers (I'm bummed the PT never showed these and instead invented a different kind of older destroyer), more TIE models (especially the bomber), though I am completely opposed to any of the ridiculously overly-powerful TIEs from old video games (i.e. TIE Defender, Phantom TIE), etc. The idea would be to show the Rebels as a montage of whatever ships they could get their hands on while the Empire has a large fleet at its disposal. I know many will not like some of these ships, but it seems like a really good idea to me.
Jerjerrod would be told to destroy Endor if the generator were destroyed, and he then prepares to do so in order to increase the tension, like the clock is ticking and down to mere seconds.
darth_ender said:
I wanted to gather all my ideas of the ROTJ space battle, though I know I've mentioned some of this before. I don't have a specific play by play in mind yet.
Several ships should crash into the Death Star shield, as mentioned by Jambe Davdar in Returning to Jedi:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWHWm7ZPnK0#t=01h48m15s
B-wings don't disappear after dodging the Death Star shield
More cockpit shots, both from deleted scenes, and likely from filming new shots as well, including representation from other races, species, and the majority of sexes (meaning newly filmed females as well as redubbing the female pilot's voice (probably a British female, as Bingowings once suggested :). Also it might be cool to see the two person Y-wing cockpit at least once, but I know how people here feel about the EU.
Other ships, including Naboo fighters, BTL-B Y-wing (I personally thought these were pretty cool from the CGI Clone Wars show), Z-95 Headhunters, Aggressive ReConnaissance starfighters (X-wing-type ships from ROTS), Victory-class Star Destroyers (I'm bummed the PT never showed these and instead invented a different kind of older destroyer), more TIE models (especially the bomber), though I am completely opposed to any of the ridiculously overly-powerful TIEs from old video games (i.e. TIE Defender, Phantom TIE), etc. The idea would be to show the Rebels as a montage of whatever ships they could get their hands on while the Empire has a large fleet at its disposal. I know many will not like some of these ships, but it seems like a really good idea to me.
Jerjerrod would be told to destroy Endor if the generator were destroyed, and he then prepares to do so in order to increase the tension, like the clock is ticking and down to mere seconds.
The shield thing is brilliant. Your whole description of events is brilliant.
I would certainly tone it down with the EU-ships (Victory Class, etc), if not just because too many different things will get cluttered pretty quickly. I definitely support resurrecting the B-Wing's Original Role.
I would personally avoid adding ships that aren't referenced as being there in any other sources.
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Battle_of_endor
On the sidebar, there's a section labeled "Strength", which lists all the ships and such present in the battle as portrayed in the movie and EU. I don't propose showing every single one of these ships, or even that any of them absolutely must be shown at all, but if any additional ship classes are to be added, I think it should use that as a guideline. So I'd avoid the N-1s and ARC-170s, as they've yet to show up there officially and there's already plenty of ships to choose from that were there.
I would love to see more ship classes, as long as it builds upon what's already established.
I might be addicted to calzones.
Crixler said:
I would personally avoid adding ships that aren't referenced as being there in any other sources.
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Battle_of_endor
On the sidebar, there's a section labeled "Strength", which lists all the ships and such present in the battle as portrayed in the movie and EU. I don't propose showing every single one of these ships, or even that any of them absolutely must be shown at all, but if any additional ship classes are to be added, I think it should use that as a guideline. So I'd avoid the N-1s and ARC-170s, as they've yet to show up there officially and there's already plenty of ships to choose from that were there.
I would love to see more ship classes, as long as it builds upon what's already established.
What was already established...in the EU. Wah-wah. :P
^My thoughts as well. Really the movies established very few ships, and the goal of a fan edit definitely does not mean to make it coincide with EU IMHO. Adywan had the Death Star in orbit around a named planet (can't remember the name), and that planet was not Despayre, the established EU planet. Heck, many edits completely alter the most official canon. I personally see no problem with taking a few minor and background liberties, especially the Victory Star Destroyers. I don't know why, but I just loved their concept ever since I first heard their mention from a friend who read the Thrawn trilogy before I did :) It's all just my opinion, though.
The point about clutter can be true, but in my dream edit there would be numerous more shots at several different points, lengthening out the battle scenes, and the majority of the ships would be in the background. I do love that B-wing illustration and would love to somehow include a real shot of that :)
Victory-class Star Destroyers would work great though, as they were still used a lot by the Empire. N-1s aren't used a whole lot by the Rebel Alliance, so I'd say it's more questionable. An edit doesn't have to agree with the EU necessarily, but if it does not then it is non-canon. And with something as minor as ships, you might as well stick to canon, right? I don't see how anyone could find a problem with adding, say, an Imperial interdictor as opposed to an ARC-170. If you don't know better, it's all the same to you, no?
And I have never seen any issue with the planet below the Death Star in Revisited. No conflicts.
I might be addicted to calzones.
Crixler said:
but if it does not then it is non-canon
Oh gosh, I guess you haven't seen how many people on these boards deal with canon. Maybe start with http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/What-do-you-LIKE-about-the-EU/topic/10207/ ?
I wish I were a skilled animator, but alas my road has lied along a completely different path. Someone with the skill and ambition could really add a lot, including additional ships to the battle.
I've been thinking about starting a new thread, a proposition if you will, calling for several editors to work together on an ROTJ edit. Someone would have to be the "director" who guides the story continuity (of course all would have input, but someone would need to coordinate and all would need to cooperate on story direction), but several editors of varying skills could take on different aspects of the film to create a fantastic edit in relatively little time. But considering I have so little to offer, I feel it would be kind of awkward for me to start such a thread.
The way I see the whole "canon" and "EU" debate is like critiquing a movie which is roughly based on historical events for its historical inaccuracy. Generally people watch films to be entertained and enlightened, not shown a series of events and scientific facts.
I love the comics and literature, and spend hours on wookiepedia, but really a good film is about message and narrative. Not canon.
1. The films are the highest canon.
2. We are editing the films.
3. Therefore, we make the canon!
As I've said many times, I frankly don't care much for canon anymore, and really consider the OT my primary canon, and from there accept or reject other plotlines when it is convenient. I often use the example of Splinter of the Mind's Eye, which was the original low-budget potential sequel to ANH. As such, many ideas that came out in ESB and ROTJ were not yet present, and thus the romance between Luke and Leia, Vader is big daddy, and all that stuff are non-existent. Last I read it I tried to enjoy it in that light, throwing out all other stories. I read the Thrawn trilogy with the OT in mind, disregarding the PT. But when I watch and read the PT, I disregard everything beyond Ep. I-VI. As such, I enjoy the endless variations that people come up with in these fan edits, even if it completely contradicts established canon.
Whilst the canon debate is up though, it could be good for an editor to clarify what THEIR canon is perhaps? My reason being is that I find it INFURIATING when one puts an idea forward to edit one film, and then receive about a dozen nonconstructive comments on how that would affect another film WHICH YOU MAY ALREADY HAVE PLANS TO CHANGE!
An example of this could be say ADYcanon, and TROOPERMANcanon, which may have plans, either real, planned or theoretical to edit a broader selection of the films.
Perhaps it would be a good thread to start, where editors make single posts with THEIR canon explained, and links put in their signatures?
I think you're all misinterpreting what I'm ultimately meaning to say. I'm not saying there's a problem with disregarding the EU. If an editor doesn't want to mesh with Star Wars as a whole, that's perfectly fine and most people on these boards seem to like it best that way. But so far, there's been very little that DOES mesh with the EU. Someone mentioned adding some EU stuff, and I figured maybe they were one of the few who would like a more EU-minded edit, so I gave some suggestions... Simple as that. Calm your storm.
I might be addicted to calzones.
I appreciate your input and don't mean to make or contribute to a storm. I do like much EU, but when it comes to fan editing, I personally only think in terms of the films themselves and trying to make them mesh together. Please always feel comfortable sharing your thoughts with me. Some may not appreciate everyone's perspective, but I sure do and always try to show that appreciation, even in disagreement :)
I think it would make a little more sense to have the Rebellion using a few Venator or Victory class ships than any Victories or older showing up on the Imperial side of things. That being said, having wedge-shapes on both sides, while maybe logical, would be visually confusing. When you're making a movie, having easy-to-understand visuals is far more important.
