Info: James Bond - Laserdisc Preservations: 1962-1971 — Page 12

The one at the credits?

captainsolo said:

The one at the credits?

Yes.  I know why it was done, but I still hate it.

I'd kill to see the train fight in all its glory, personally. The BBFC cut that too.

Also, its funny how one of the original cuts no longer persists. Tania walking nude towards the bed was originally cut from the theatrical release, yet its present on the SE and UE DVDs. Weird...

Well, I just went through Dr. No on the Connery Collection and felt transported. Laserdisc continues to bring back childhood memories. The colors seemed properly balanced-the sound was perfect-and there were even a couple of reel change markers!

I didn't think there could be much improvement from the 1989 series, but this really feels improved.

Any updates on this project, FF?

I second this.

Not had any time...

I looked at your Criterion Goldfinger again and compared it to the Connery Collection. I agree that the Criterion looks like a loan out print. The different color probably comes from different print materials and overall wear.

FanFiltration said:

The 1989 (2 disk gatefold) and 1993 (Connery Collection Vol. II 3-film box set) laserdisk versions are the same print with the alternate mono soundtrack featuring the rare instrumental "Thunderball" end title theme.  The secondary mono audio track on the Blu-ray has all these alternate audio variations except the "Thunderball" end theme. In it's place, the Ultimate edition and Blu-ray 5.1, and also the secondary mono audio track on the Blu-ray use the James Bond Theme for the end titles.  It is also important to note the the color on the 1993 (Connery Collection Vol. II)is a bit better then the 1989 (2 disk gatefold) version.

I just watched the 89 disc. I think I've finally figured out the reason why there are such distinct differences in the mixes. The print used for the 89 and 93 Connery Collection disc must have been from a British source. It has long been said that the film was completed right before the premiere and work was hastily done. This mono mix has these differences:

1. The line "Now you can tell about the one that got away" is included.

2. The line about manta rays is included and is voiced by the character Pinder.

3.When torturing Domino, Largo says the words "what Bond knew" in the other sound mix the line is heard as "what Bond knows".

4. There is no music in the underwater bomb cave when Bond is discovered.

5. The end title music is indeed the British closing Thunderball theme.

I think all of these indicate that this is a British print. What did strike me on this disc was the color timing. While FF has said that it doesn't match up to the later 93 pressing it is likely the same source material. And from my experience with CC Vol. 1, the few years make a big difference in image quality. Still, the image has all of the warm Technicolor hues that I remembered, specifically reds, oranges and blues. Almost a sense of the film being cooked a few levels.

As far as the sound goes, I think all of these differences can be attributed to further work in and around the different world premieres. Much like Star Wars, further work could have been needed and so a few lines were changed around and music was added in #4. In fact, the music placed there is a repeat of "Chateau Flight" and sounds as if it was hastily added from a portable tape machine.

The THX (30th Anniversary) Edition is important for a few reasons.

It has THX Laserdisk mastering, and is presented in Standard Play format and uses 5 sides for the film (sides 6 and 7 are the extras, and are in CLV Extended play). The 1989 and 1993 are only CLV Extended play, and use 3 sides.

This is the same restored print that was used for the S.E. DVD. It has  lossless PCM audio.   That version of the soundtrack is only available in remixed 5.1 Dolby Digital on the S.E. DVD, or remixed with additional sound enhancements in 5.1 DTS on the Blu-Ray.

Was there ever an actual restoration of TB and Goldfinger at this time? And is there a mono track on this pressing? Or is it only stereo?

I think Peter Hunt had to spend many long hours to get this film out of the water.

Just watched the OHMSS LD.

Oh gosh, does this film get better every time!

The last time I watched this was in a screening room with the old SE DVD last year. This beats that despite the lesser resolution. The colors are properly balanced unlike the SE which was boosted and edge enhanced. But the big draw is the fact that to my knowledge this is the only fully uncut version of the film. As FF has previously said, the dialogue is in the right places (even Tracy's line "How do we get out?") and all the scenes are in the right order. The sound is really great on this digital track and boy was it a treat to hear OHMSS in PCM!! The score shines even brighter and the subtle nuances of the dialogue are well heard as compared to the lossy Dolby 2.0. I compared this to the DVD and I think for the most part the two used the same source. The SE disc in the SE boxsets supposedly had the errors corrected so I guess that means another one to track down.

This one is stunning though. As one of the later pressed titles (1991) it comes off better than the 89 discs I have and closer to the superior quality Connery collection pressings (1993). And the side breaks are very well done.

I'll have to dig out my 1995 letterbox vhs to compare any differences.

Found an original THX DVD of Spy. Compared it against the SE, UE and LD for some shots. The UE loses some of the color timing-especially the browns and is full of edge enhancement in the first half.

I think the THX and SE are the same. They have the same damage, same timecodes, same chapter stops and even the same chapter titles. Comparing against the LD you can see that the same source was used, but both on better equipment and slightly cleaned up as the dirt from the LD is gone and colors are better presented. I think overall I like the THX disc the best because there might be a little less edge enhancement than the SE. but I might be wrong. This hard to find disc is likely a port of the THX LD master as it arrived at the same time and features the 5.1 mix.

The problem I've seen with every SE disc is that the sources were way too grainy, and they are riddled with edge enhancement (and the first three are cropped to 1.78) but the colors are very accurate. The UEs take liberties that were not theirs to choose. And from what the UE Region 2 discs and UE Blus have shown there are differences between editions.

However with the new Blu-rays it might be possible to add back original audio via LD PCM and color correct to match the original editions. The only thing is the sheer amount of grain that was removed by Lowry's process.

Well the Banned Bonds were Criterion preservations. They have the Criterion logos and extras plus the slightly different color timings and 1.85 framing that was the Criterion print source.

It's possible to find the Criterions Bonds for cheap every once in a while. I personally don't have any but it's not going to stack up to the Connery Collection which had the benefit of newer technology, better equipment, better source materials and correct 1.66:1 framing.

As far as Criterion CLV versus CAV goes, I think it really depends on if you want the extras. I have the Criterion North By Northwest CLV edition and while it lacks the extras of the CAV box, it does have a digital mono track (the only high quality release IIRC.) whereas the CAV doesn't. I have the CAV Criterion boxes of 2001 and It's a Wonderful Life. Picture quality is good all around, but it's mainly going to depend on the print source and date the LD was manufactured. I think you might get a slightly more stable and defined image from CAV if you have the combination of good disc and good equipment. I really haven't noticed much of a difference. PQ is good all around on my Criterion LDs, but they are older discs and as FF had mentioned Criterion seemed to have started by getting well worn prints to use from studios.

In short, the Criterion Bonds make a nice curio with their different coloring and framing but have excellent extras. They resemble what the films would have looked like in revivals at the time. The 89 MGM LD series didn't get around to these 3 until after the Connery Collection came out, so I think that those single releases are just the same discs released individually.

Ah! They're not 1.85 or 1.66 but 1.75:1!

http://www.lddb.com/laserdisc/03230/CC1234L/Dr.-No:-Special-Edition-%281962%29

I knew something was off! Just compared my old CC crummy transfers against the Banned Dr. No to check for differences. The framing is slightly different because Criterion went for 1.75:1. This would cause the issues you mentioned on your TV but it's an even less common format than 1.66. And the colors are different on all three, mainly a different color tone for each film.

Terrence Young approved the Criterion transfers for Dr. No and From Russia With Love but I think he signed off on them mainly out of a favor to the nice company that had recorded the commentary and the fact that they were presented relatively clean and in a widescreen ratio and looked like the original image for the most part. Guy Hamilton had no involvement on the Goldfinger disc.

To tell apart the CAV/CLV versions, the easiest way is to look at the Criteiron logo on the top of the front cover. If the black bar is only in the middle then it's CAV with commentary. If the black bar and logo go all the way across the top border then it's a CLV minus commentary.

I definitely recommend the CC Vol.1. It's one of the best LDs I've yet seen. My 89 disc of Thunderball is quite good but a little rough round the edges. It's slightly better on the CC vol. 2 and was redone in 95 for the big box set. (along with Goldfinger)

I've just finished the TB CAV Box, generously sent to me by FF.

I think it's the same film source as the previous LDs. The transfer is greatly improved but it has some of the same marks and things as my 89 disc. The big noticeable one is a large black hair in the gate on the top edge of the frame during the "rack" sequence. It is the same hair and the same placement as the 89.

It appears a new transfer was done for this THX 95 release, but what I want to know is where they got the soundtrack from. It is the mix that has the other versions of the lines (the one I'm used to) and music cues. However, I could hear in some spots how some bits were obviously flown in from other sources, as there are some tiny cuts in the audio and noticeable differences in volume level and source. The Dolby Surround accurately reflected the original mono soundfield and it was nice to have a bit of punch to TB without mucking up the original.

All in all, a fantastic release. The 98 THX LD should just be a CLV repressing with an added 5.1 remix of this 2.0 surround.

The more I dig into this and the more transfers I revisit, I think MGM simply used one master per film from 1989 onwards through the SE DVD.

The damage marks on each film I've seen are identical on every version. With each new release things got clearer and more detailed, but when the SEs were rolled out, they unfortunately were riddled with edge enhancement, some were cropped incorrectly (Dr. No, FRWL, Goldfinger, LALD, TMWTGG all cropped to 1.78:1) and then some of these issues had video/audio errors. (OHMSS, LALD, TLD, LTK and some others I think.) LALD even has the audio dropouts that were present on the first defective LD pressing.

But the colors were still spot on. I've played around with some of the UEs and both the color and detail are just gone. There's a definite softness that has crept in especially on the 70's era films. I don't really think that these can be improved all that much, especially since the Blu-ray 1080p images reveal much more and highlight definite differences from their SD counterparts. But although stronger, the Blus don't look the way they should.

Only some of the films were scanned at 4K.  Dr. No-LALD and Moonraker. everything else came from a video master provded from MGM save for Goldeneye which was print sourced. This was likely a version prepared for a pan and scan due to the excessive cropping on the reissue.

The inherent softness in these really get me. Aside from losing the original color timing, Lowry just scrubbed out too much grain and detail.

And the Technicolor is completely gone. Gone!

And don't even get me started on the audio! The 5.1 remixes (both Dolby and DTS) are horrendous. Tinny audio, replaced music with remastered score, and full of unnecessary new elements and foleys. The uncompressed PCM on the Laserdiscs aside from being original has an unbelievable amount of extended dynamic range compared to everything else.

The HDTV Goldeneye has print marks that aren't on the UE and more grain but still has the tight framing.

captainsolo said:

The HDTV Goldeneye has print marks that aren't on the UE and more grain but still has the tight framing.

 Yeah, I was hoping, but then I compared the screen grabs. Odd that the print marks are different...does it still have the pan-and-scan intro credits?

Yep. Exactly the same cropping even in the titles. I wish I could remember the theatrical presentation, but I was a wee lad of 5.

I noticed the UEs that lack original audio are because of disk space. When a third commentary was added they jettisoned the theatrical track. (LALD, TSWLM, FYEO)

captainsolo said:

Yep. Exactly the same cropping even in the titles. I wish I could remember the theatrical presentation, but I was a wee lad of 5.

I noticed the UEs that lack original audio are because of disk space. When a third commentary was added they jettisoned the theatrical track. (LALD, TSWLM, FYEO)

Are these issued fixed on the BDs (LALD and FYEO)?

I believe they did put those back in (crummy Dolby 2.0 @ 192 kbp/s) from reviews I've read. Still not PCM though.

Just watched the Connery Collection version of Thunderball and it looked near identical to the 89 disc. Same mono mix with Thunderball closing theme. I'd be hard pressed to note much of a difference in image, although I really noticed some reoccurring vertical print/negative damage (thin black lines). There was less video noise, so everything looked more detailed I guess but this boxset was a bit banged up and I have to watch LD on an old 19"CRT so picking out minute detail isn't the easiest thing to do.

I wonder if the forthcoming BD box set will contain new versions of the films? Hopefully Casino Royale will be uncut - they did it with GoldenEye and Tomorrow Never Dies so fingers crossed.