Harmy's STAR WARS Despecialized Edition HD - V2.7 - MKV (Released) — Page 99

doubleofive said:

 

OMEN!-_-! said:

I know Harmy is trying to recreate these films exactly as they were theatrically but I have to agree with Darth Tater (cool name/avatar btw) on this, they are all pretty noticable, though like others here have said, method 1 is definately the most obvious and jarring. I think it might be worth compromising here and cutting those missing frames and that part of the audio where the missing frames are to not disrupt the flow of what is a very cool/iconic scene for Han Solo. Another option of course would be to take the whole final shot of Han before he shoots Greedo from the GOUT rather than just the few missing frames, that would certainly be less jarring than changing between two sources of differing quality in the same shot.

I'd rather have the slow motion frames at the beginning than removing the "yes". More fans will notice the "yes" being gone than the strange frames.

 

I agree, and I don't even think this would be necessary. I just broke out the SE DVD, and the whole scene seems fine (until Greedo shoots, of course). There is a camera cut right before Greedo shoots, so splicing it back to where Han shoots alone seems relatively simple, as is it already done in v1.0. In the SE, Han already says, "Yes, I bet you have," and there is no noticable cut in frames (to my untrained eyes).

My point was to consider possibly not altering it at all beyond restoring the subtitles, as it is pretty clean as is with minimal tinkering from GL, and the added frames are more noticeable than their absence, which, IMHO, defeats the intention.

After all, the biggest compliment I can give the DE is that it makes me feel like I am watching the OT, meaning that the SE elements are concealed very well in ways that look very natural, even if they are not 100% accurate. Like the new matte in the scene where they sell the speeder. It is not 100% accurate, but it is done well enough that no one will complain because it establishes the goal of concealing the SE elements in a way that is close enough to the original that it goes by naturally. I think the added frames do not do this as effectively.

Just my way of thinking, though, so take it FWIW. I am confident in Harmy's judgement on such things.

-DT

Darth Tater said:

doubleofive said:

OMEN!-_-! said:

I know Harmy is trying to recreate these films exactly as they were theatrically but I have to agree with Darth Tater (cool name/avatar btw) on this, they are all pretty noticable, though like others here have said, method 1 is definately the most obvious and jarring. I think it might be worth compromising here and cutting those missing frames and that part of the audio where the missing frames are to not disrupt the flow of what is a very cool/iconic scene for Han Solo. Another option of course would be to take the whole final shot of Han before he shoots Greedo from the GOUT rather than just the few missing frames, that would certainly be less jarring than changing between two sources of differing quality in the same shot.

I'd rather have the slow motion frames at the beginning than removing the "yes". More fans will notice the "yes" being gone than the strange frames.

 

I agree, and I don't even think this would be necessary. I just broke out the SE DVD, and the whole scene seems fine (until Greedo shoots, of course). There is a camera cut right before Greedo shoots, so splicing it back to where Han shoots alone seems relatively simple, as is it already done in v1.0. In the SE, Han already says, "Yes, I bet you have," and there is no noticable cut in frames (to my untrained eyes).

Ah, I´d forgotten that the ´yes´ is also included in the 2004 special edition dvds. I´m leaving the audio for last on my project so I wasn´t 100% sure whether the ´yes´ would need to be cut or not due to the missing frames. Even better then, you would just lose a few frames that most would never notice were even gone.

The only problem in relation to this project is that such a change would definately be a little step away from recreating the theatrical release because this was one of the changes that was made for the special editions.

Harmy, have you considered slowing down that final shot of Han slightly when he says ´Yes, I bet you have´ to make up the missing frames while leaving the audio unaltered? I haven´t tried it but it could possibly be less noticable than the other methods you´ve used, due to the slowdown being spread out across the whole shot rather than just the first few frames.

doubleofive,

Respectfully, I wouldn't say that it's completely different, but that's just my point of view. What I mean is, in both instances, the goal is to overcome the SE in the most natural way possible. I interpret the objective you discuss (when you say "what I feel this project is") as a technical one, to completely match the OT, shot by shot, as closely as possible. My only point would be that what inspired this project in the first place was emotions. Emotions that were formed watching the OT, and emotions that were formed by watching the SE changes upon that OT.

To me, the feel the final product has is every bit as important as the technical side, and the satisfaction in watching it comes from how natural it is in it's attempt to recreate the OT. The SE changes were so offensive because they were obvious, out of place, and unnecessary. Honestly, the slow motion frames in the proposed clips have the same effect on me. But, like you, I am absolutely confident in Harmy's judgement to find the right compromise between the technique and feel, and am not worried about it.

I know others have different points of view built from their own experiences, which it is not my place to argue with. I can only share mine and how I understand them. I don't mean to get too much ruckus going over a minor detail which I am sure will be just fine in the end.

-DT

doubleofive said:

Sorry, I got all emotional. It's terrible that we have to have these fights instead of actually having the versions we grew up with officially release in different versions.

Do not worry about it at all. We are all here for the same purpose, and like I said, at the root of that purpose is emotions. I'm just glad to encounter a group of people with the same goal and Harmy with the means, talent, and time to do it.

I wasn't offended, and I enjoy civil discussions, even when we disagree. I am relatively new here, though I have lurked a long time, and I like talking with you, Harmy, and others that have been around a while and learning more about this project and others.

In fact, the community effort has made the results better. I just feel for Harmy, who has to (chooses to) go through all this discussion, decide what's important, and then figure out how to do it. Hats off to you, bud!

-DT

Harmy said:

Guys, are you out of you minds? I will not, under any circumstances, edit the audio because as it stands, any audio track synced with the GOUT (which the wast majority of soundtracks intended for the original version are) will work as that's the whole point. I'm not even using the actual GOUT audio at all. Oh, and the Han scene was done exactly this way in v1.0, I just decided to try and smooth it out a little. And it is definitely not 14 seconds out of sync with the GOUT at any point , in fact, the whole edit is in frame for frame sync with GOUT, with maximum one frame shift - the only explanation is that the timings of the chapters got somehow shifted when you ripped them DT. 

And cutting audio is absolutely different from the selling speeder scene, where the only difference is the colour of the sky.

My suggestion about slowing down the whole final shot of Han before Greedo fries would not require any alteration of the audio, you would be slowing down the video slightly to be in sync with the audio. I'm pretty sure the slight slowdown would not be perceivable to viewers and would be far less noticable than slowing down just the first few frames of the final shot like in those clips you posted IMHO.

If there's some flaw with what i'm suggesting that you can see and that i've overlooked Harmy please do let me know.

Harmy said:

Guys, are you out of you minds? [...] the only explanation is that the timings of the chapters got somehow shifted when you ripped them DT. 

And cutting audio is absolutely different from the selling speeder scene, where the only difference is the colour of the sky.

Ok, calm down, man. lol I'm on your side here. :)

I just opened dark_jedi's GOUTv3 in VLC, and it looks like it is playing at ~60fps, slightly faster than yours if I understand it (~24 fps, but VLC reports it at ~48fps), which would account for the difference. It would also explain why I was able to apply a uniform change to the chapter times (multiply all chapter times by the same number) to get the right chapters. Let me know if you concur.

So, knowing that, now I see your point about the soundtrack. I was just misinterpreting the evidence I was seeing (the timestamps). Also, I do notice the Han frames in 1.0. I was just offering a suggestion based on my understanding of what was happening. Again, not criticisms, just observations.

I have said several times that I am confident you will come up with the right solution, and I stand by it. Take it easy, man. I am a walking commercial for your work, and I anything I say is only in an attempt to be helpful.

-DT

I am not sure which frames are missing but would it be possible to create new frames to fill the gap? Maybe add some GOUT elements to make close enough mock ups? Maybe that is just crazy talk but I thought I would ask.

@Midnight_Trooper:

Harmy said:

[...] Now I tried to fill in the moving parts from GOUT but it was just too jarring [...]

Here.

Is that what you meant, or something more/different?

"You must do what you feel is right, of course..."

(I love saying that.)

To be honest, (with the exception of the first one) I think they all look great.  The only way I even noticed it, was because I was specifically looking for it.  If this was just thrown in with the rest of the movie, I would not think twice about it!  

IF I had to choose, I would go with 3b.

Keep up the awesome work!

bspaunhorst said:

To be honest, (with the exception of the first one) I think they all look great.  The only way I even noticed it, was because I was specifically looking for it.  If this was just thrown in with the rest of the movie, I would not think twice about it!  

IF I had to choose, I would go with 3b.

Keep up the awesome work!

This goes for me as well. 90% of the small changes I only notice because we start talking about them, this one included.

Also, no hard feelings, Harmy. Take care of yourself. Hope whatever's wrong is nothing serious.

Harmy said:

"...it could take a few weeks for everything to come through, making me unable to work on the edit properly..."

Well, that certainly is unfortunate. I know what it's like to be full steam on a project you care about and get held up by outside circumstances.

Don't feel like you have any pressure from this side, though. We'll be here whenever you're able to get it finished, and we'll be grateful whenever it finally gets here. In the mean time, we can keep enjoying 1.0, which is certainly better than anything we've had before! :) You're still doing great work, and we appreciate it.

Now, about that 14 seconds you added...

That's a joke. :) Take care.

-DT

Harmy, what font did you use?

Link

I've got this font

J