Words I never thought I'd hear: Joe Paterno fired (UPDATE JOE PATERNO IS DEAD) — Page 2

Gosh, had I known you'd post in this thread, I would have already expected that very joke, walkingdork.  However, now that I understand your personality, I'll admit that you got a smile out of me. :)

Warbler said:

I have to say Frink,  when you were 18-21 years of age,  you must have been very wise, smart, and mature for your age. 

I side with Fink 100% on this.

And I don't get what that has to do with maturity or wisdom. When I was 18-21 years old I certainly would have felt the exact same way I do now, and I don't even claim to be wise, smart, or even all that mature now.

CP3S said:

Warbler said:

I have to say Frink,  when you were 18-21 years of age,  you must have been very wise, smart, and mature for your age. 

I side with Fink 100% on this.

And I don't get what that has to do with maturity or wisdom.

sometimes, it takes maturity and wisdom to understand what is right and wrong.   I believe that is case here.   I believe it would be very easy for someone who was young and immature to think it was wrong to fire Paterno, and to be upset by it.    To a lot of people there, he was their hero.   Why is it wrong for them to be broken hearted over this?   Try and put yourselves their shoes.    

CP3S said:

When I was 18-21 years old I certainly would have felt the exact same way I do now, and I don't even claim to be wise, smart, or even all that mature now.

I would love to travel back in time and ask the 18-21 years old CP3S what he thinks.  

walkingdork said:

Warber, Yeah Paterno is a college football legend and he IS Penn State, but this is the sort of thing that is unforgivable and Paterno deserves to fall (hard) from the grace of Penn State.

oh I quite agree that Paterno deserved to be fired.   Where Frink and I disagree is that I feel sorry for the students at Penn State and Frink does not.  

walkingdork said:

I agree with Frink that students need to get over themselves and realize that Paterno deserves all the shame he gets.

its easy to say to the other guy "get over it".  

walkingdork said:

My hope is that in 2 years people don't pretend to forget what's happened and begin to gush over Paterno again. I can just picture a new Joe Paterno statue at Penn State in a few years and that's pathetic.

there already is a statue of him there.  Yeah, as much as I hate to say it, there should never be another one. 

walkingdork said:

 

Let go people. I was once a hardcore Brett Favre fan until he went to the Vikings and talked shit about Green Bay and the people of Wisconsin and sexted his dick to some chick. The two stories are obviously very different but I would predict that Paterno will get a new statue in Penn State before Brett Favre gets one in Green Bay.

 

you are comparing Brett Favre to Joe Paterno?    Paterno meant much more to Penn State than Favre ever meant to Green Bay.     Paterno meant more to Penn State than Lombardi means to Green Bay.  

Warbler said:

CP3S said:

Warbler said:

I have to say Frink,  when you were 18-21 years of age,  you must have been very wise, smart, and mature for your age. 

I side with Fink 100% on this.

And I don't get what that has to do with maturity or wisdom.

sometimes, it takes maturity and wisdom to understand what is right and wrong.   I believe that is case here.   I believe it would be very easy for someone who was young and immature to think it was wrong to fire Paterno, and to be upset by it.    To a lot of people there, he was their hero.   Why is it wrong for them to be broken hearted over this?   Try and put yourselves their shoes.    

CP3S said:

When I was 18-21 years old I certainly would have felt the exact same way I do now, and I don't even claim to be wise, smart, or even all that mature now.

I would love to travel back in time and ask the 18-21 years old CP3S what he thinks.  

Warb, I am only five years older than that now. Go back to my early posts on this forum from five years ago, just based on my posts, as immature and stupid as many of them were, I think you can be pretty sure what the younger C3PX would have thought of this subject. 

walkingdork said:

Warber, Yeah Paterno is a college football legend and he IS Penn State, but this is the sort of thing that is unforgivable and Paterno deserves to fall (hard) from the grace of Penn State.

oh I quite agree that Paterno deserved to be fired.   Where Frink and I disagree is that I feel sorry for the students at Penn State and Frink does not.  

Why should you feel sorry for them? Their hero turned out not to be so heroic. That always sucks, but as will it always be when someone feels the need to have heroes. Their hero turned out to be a severe dick, I could sympathize and feel bad for them if that is what they were upset about, but not when their upset is focused on the fact that not everyone else is as willing to forgive their hero for his extreme shortcomings as they are. They shouldn't be, he wasn't a very nice person.

I don't think it has to do with maturity, I think it has to do with people. I bet there are plenty of people 50 and over who are just as much up in arms about this as the 18-21 year old students.

walkingdork said:

My hope is that in 2 years people don't pretend to forget what's happened and begin to gush over Paterno again. I can just picture a new Joe Paterno statue at Penn State in a few years and that's pathetic.

there already is a statue of him there.  Yeah, as much as I hate to say it, there should never be another one. 

That one totally needs to be removed.

you are comparing Brett Favre to Joe Paterno?    Paterno meant much more to Penn State than Favre ever meant to Green Bay.     Paterno meant more to Penn State than Lombardi means to Green Bay.  

And Paterno did something far worse to Penn State than Favre did to Greenbay. As Dork admitted, it wasn't exactly a perfect parallel.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQd9pTG4hT4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5TscJPMLRo

CP3S said:

Warbler said:

CP3S said:

Warbler said:

I have to say Frink,  when you were 18-21 years of age,  you must have been very wise, smart, and mature for your age. 

I side with Fink 100% on this.

And I don't get what that has to do with maturity or wisdom.

sometimes, it takes maturity and wisdom to understand what is right and wrong.   I believe that is case here.   I believe it would be very easy for someone who was young and immature to think it was wrong to fire Paterno, and to be upset by it.    To a lot of people there, he was their hero.   Why is it wrong for them to be broken hearted over this?   Try and put yourselves their shoes.    

CP3S said:

When I was 18-21 years old I certainly would have felt the exact same way I do now, and I don't even claim to be wise, smart, or even all that mature now.

I would love to travel back in time and ask the 18-21 years old CP3S what he thinks.  

Warb, I am only five years older than that now.

you make me feel so old. 

CP3S said:

 I think you can be pretty sure what the younger C3PX would have thought of this subject. 

true, but isn't possible that when these kids who rioted on Wednesday grow up a little more and mature, that they will realize that they were wrong? 

CP3S said:

walkingdork said:

Warber, Yeah Paterno is a college football legend and he IS Penn State, but this is the sort of thing that is unforgivable and Paterno deserves to fall (hard) from the grace of Penn State.

oh I quite agree that Paterno deserved to be fired.   Where Frink and I disagree is that I feel sorry for the students at Penn State and Frink does not.  

Why should you feel sorry for them?

1. they are not responsible for the scandal

2. They had a lot of pride in Paterno and Penn State.  It is now crushed.   These people bleed blue and white (the colors of the school) and thought of Paterno as a god.   This scandal has to be heartbreaking to them

3. not all of the students rioted

4. the rioting wasn't that bad and only went on for 1 night. 

5. they are not responsible for the scandal

CP3S said:

Their hero turned out not to be so heroic. That always sucks, but as will it always be when someone feels the need to have heroes.

I think it is human nature to want to look at someone as a hero. 

CP3S said:

Their hero turned out to be a severe dick, I could sympathize and feel bad for them if that is what they were upset about,

some of them are upset  about that.  

CP3S said:

but not when their upset is focused on the fact that not everyone else is as willing to forgive their hero for his extreme shortcomings as they are. They shouldn't be,

maybe some are in shock over this and don't know what to think.    Maybe some were in denial.   Learning that your hero is not really all he is cracked up to can be difficult to accept.   When we talking about someone regarded as a legend as Paterno is, it is easy for one's judgement about him to be clouded.    They don't want to give up Joe Paterno the legend, so they trick themselves into thinking that Joe Paterno is still the legend and it must be wrong to fire him.  See, this were maturity comes into play.  

CP3S said:

he wasn't a very nice person.

they didn't know that until a few days ago.   For 45 years, they thought Paterno was great man who had done so much for the university.

CP3S said:

 I bet there are plenty of people 50 and over who are just as much up in arms about this as the 18-21 year old students.

how many 50 and overs do you think were involved in the rioting?

CP3S said:

walkingdork said:

My hope is that in 2 years people don't pretend to forget what's happened and begin to gush over Paterno again. I can just picture a new Joe Paterno statue at Penn State in a few years and that's pathetic.

there already is a statue of him there.  Yeah, as much as I hate to say it, there should never be another one. 

That one totally needs to be removed.

there is talk of that.   Its sad that is has to be like this, it is what probably needs happen.   I never thought Paterno would be involved in covering up a child molester.   If had told me two weeks ago that Paterno was covering for a child molester, I'd have told you that you were nuts.  

Warbler said:

Why should you feel sorry for them?

1. they are not responsible for the scandal

2. They had a lot of pride in Paterno and Penn State.  It is now crushed.   These people bleed blue and white (the colors of the school) and thought of Paterno as a god.   This scandal has to be heartbreaking to them

3. not all of the students rioted

4. the rioting wasn't that bad and only went on for 1 night. 

5. they are not responsible for the scandal

That is actually really depressing to think about. You make it sound like these people have absolutely no life beyond their silly games. Maybe they don't. Makes me feel even less sorry for them. Maybe this will help them wake up and realize their are higher stakes in life than grown men tossing balls around... but probably not. Anyone who raises a man to the height of a god deserve all the pain and disappointment they get. No one is that good. Paterno proved he was far, far from it.

CP3S said:

Their hero turned out not to be so heroic. That always sucks, but as will it always be when someone feels the need to have heroes.

I think it is human nature to want to look at someone as a hero. 

I think this is where your maturity theory comes into play. Hero worship is something we tend to do when we are younger, and grow out of as we get older.

CP3S said:

but not when their upset is focused on the fact that not everyone else is as willing to forgive their hero for his extreme shortcomings as they are. They shouldn't be,

maybe some are in shock over this and don't know what to think.    Maybe some were in denial.   Learning that your hero is not really all he is cracked up to can be difficult to accept.   When we talking about someone regarded as a legend as Paterno is, it is easy for one's judgement about him to be clouded.    They don't want to give up Joe Paterno the legend, so they trick themselves into thinking that Joe Paterno is still the legend and it must be wrong to fire him.  See, this were maturity comes into play.  

How do people really get this worked up about sports? This is one of those things I really can't understand for the life of me. Don't suppose I ever will. "Hero" "Legend" You'd think the man had slain dragons, brought nations out of oppression, and fed all the hungry children of the world. Kind of sad what the "stuff of legends" is these days. 

CP3S said:

he wasn't a very nice person.

they didn't know that until a few days ago.   For 45 years, they thought Paterno was great man who had done so much for the university.

But now they know.

CP3S said:

 I bet there are plenty of people 50 and over who are just as much up in arms about this as the 18-21 year old students.

how many 50 and overs do you think were involved in the rioting?

I don't know. Probably none. 50 year olds probably do a lot more considering of consequences prior to doing things like that than 18-21 year olds. I just meant that I bet there are plenty of 50 and overs who feel the same way as the 18-21 year olds do, even if they aren't actually out there rioting.

CP3S said:

walkingdork said:

My hope is that in 2 years people don't pretend to forget what's happened and begin to gush over Paterno again. I can just picture a new Joe Paterno statue at Penn State in a few years and that's pathetic.

there already is a statue of him there.  Yeah, as much as I hate to say it, there should never be another one. 

That one totally needs to be removed.

there is talk of that.   Its sad that is has to be like this, it is what probably needs happen.   I never thought Paterno would be involved in covering up a child molester.   If had told me two weeks ago that Paterno was covering for a child molester, I'd have told you that you were nuts.  

I guess it is sad, especially if you really looked up to this guy. But honestly, he is a pretty horrible smear on the history of the school (even if he was a highlight of its history before, all that is rather tarnished by all of this). I think removing the statue is right.

*sigh*   I give up  C3PS will never understand about sports.    

Warbler said:
*sigh*   I give up  C3PS will never understand about sports.    

georgec said:

Warbler said:

*sigh*   I give up  C3PS will never understand about sports.    

And what do you know about sports, huh? Very little, I'm guessing. Quit trying to arrogantly present yourself as "understanding" sports above others.

In all fairness to Warbler, that wasn't exactly what he was trying to say. He wasn't trying to claim to know more about sports than me, and therefore carry a more weighty and informed opinion on the subject. Rather, he knows I have never been able to force myself to be the least bit interested in sports (I mean, I enjoy playing them sometimes, but not watching), so what he was saying was that since I am not a sports fan, I can't understand how significant Paterno was to those fans who loved him. Which isn't true. While I don't appreciate sports, I still get the logistics of his importance; and just because I don't have sports heroes, doesn't mean I have never had heroes. 

That said, Warb's point misses the point I have been making and really has no bearing on anything. I have people I look up to and think are pretty fantastic, if it came out they were part of a scandal like this, you can bet my feelings of pride and respect in regard to them are going to disappear in a puff of disgust and disappointment.

So, I think Warlber should be quiet about this because he's the one who clearly doesn't understand anything about this situation, feeling sorry for JoePa and the PSU students. What a warped point of view...

I agree, that is a pretty warped point of view, and I've been kind of surprised at the side Warb's taken on this (not that he is defending Paterno, but at the sympathy over those upset about something so sickening and ridiculous), considering I am usually the one poking fun at him for having a bleeding heart. Just one child being raped is a more severe issue than every stupid football game that has ever been played. Those students who are protesting don't deserve sympathy, they deserve a reality check.

I feel I restate my position and clear up some things.

I do not feel sorry for Paterno.   Its sad to see a legend have to be taken down like this, he deserved to be fired for covering for a child molester.   I do not condone the rioting.   I just feel some sympathy for the students(and not specifically the ones who rioted) who had to see their university, their team and their Knute Rockne  disgraced.  Of course that sympathy pales in comparison to the sympathy I feel for poor the children who were molested.   There are scarred for life.  I can't begin to imagine how they feel.   I feel that anyone who had the slightest bit to with the cover up should be fired.   The Penn State needs to clean house.   Probably at least the whole coaching staff should be fired. 

walkingdork said:

If your dad rapes a chick it doesn't matter how much you love the guy, you still have to admit your dad is a piece of shit.

sure, if I had enough proof that my father was indeed guilty of rape.  And it would take a lot more evidence to convince me of that  than if we were talking about a total stranger. 

Georgec,  I think you're a very rude person.  

CP3S said:

 Anyone who raises a man to the height of a god deserve all the pain and disappointment they get.

I was only using the term, god, figuratively.   I understand why you think they deserve pain and disappointment.   They just thought Paterno was a great coach, a great man, and a man of high integrity.    All that was known of Paterno before the scandal broke, points to that being the truth about him.   With what was known about Paterno, before the scandal,  I think it was logical to think he was  a great coach, a great man, and a man of high integrity.   CP3S, maybe you should do some research on Paterno before you condemn the students for thinking as they did about him.   Perhaps if you learned what he was like publicly and what he did for Penn State and his team, you might understand why they thought he was so great and why it is difficult for the students to come to terms with the scandal. 

*facepalm*

This is a SW forum, shouldn't we use the 'There is another' joke?

damn wtf is it with people covering for a child molester?   I just don't get it.

none said:

This is a SW forum, shouldn't we use the 'There is another' joke?

I agree with Frink.   Child molestation is not something that should be joked about.