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What do you LIKE about the EU? — Page 20

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theprequelsrule said:

I think that perhaps the best EU product is the video game KOTOR 2 ( despite the final 10% of the game being a rushed, unfinished mess). It has probably the best writing you will find in any Star Wars product, including the original films.

 

Hmm... maybe I'll have to give it another go.  I was a little underwhelmed by KotOR but still decided to give KotOR2 a shot.  I was even more underwhelmed, so I gave up about 2-3 hours in.

IT'S MY TRILOGY, AND I WANT IT NOW!

"[George Lucas] rebooted the franchise in 1997 without telling anyone." -skyjedi2005

"Yeah, well, George says a lot of things..." a young 1997 xhonzi on RASSM

"They're my movies." -George Lucas. 19 people won oscars for their work on Star Wars (1977) and George Lucas wasn't one of them.

Rewrite the Prequels!

 

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xhonzi said:

theprequelsrule said:

I think that perhaps the best EU product is the video game KOTOR 2 ( despite the final 10% of the game being a rushed, unfinished mess). It has probably the best writing you will find in any Star Wars product, including the original films.

 

Hmm... maybe I'll have to give it another go.  I was a little underwhelmed by KotOR but still decided to give KotOR2 a shot.  I was even more underwhelmed, so I gave up about 2-3 hours in.

Admittedly the game's combat system isn't great, but the themes that are explored in the game and the dialogue make up for it. IMHO of course. It does take quite a while to take off - maybe 10 hours or so.

Remember Xhonzi, I am endorsing this in my capacity as a stalwart prequel-hater and OOT lover!

EDIT: get the version for computer and then download the restoration mod that inserts relevant cut content.

FURTHER EDIT: The game comes together more and more upon replays. It was more satisfying on my third or fourth play-through because I noticed dialogue that I had missed/not paid attention to the first time around that helps to connect some dots, bring out some ideas etc.

FURTHER-FURTHER EDIT: If it means anything to you the script for the game was written by Chris Avellone. The guy who wrote the game Planescape Torment.

“It is only through interaction, through decision and choice, through confrontation, physical or mental, that the Force can grow within you.”
-Kreia, Jedi Master and Sith Lord

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theprequelsrule said:

xhonzi said:

Hmm... maybe I'll have to give it another go.  I was a little underwhelmed by KotOR but still decided to give KotOR2 a shot.  I was even more underwhelmed, so I gave up about 2-3 hours in.

Admittedly the game's combat system isn't great, but the themes that are explored in the game and the dialogue make up for it. IMHO of course. It does take quite a while to take off - maybe 10 hours or so.

Remember Xhonzi, I am endorsing this in my capacity as a stalwart prequel-hater and OOT lover!

Yes!  I will keep this in mind!

EDIT: get the version for computer and then download the restoration mod that inserts relevant cut content.

I'll have to consider this as well.  I bought (and still have) the Xbox(1) version.

IT'S MY TRILOGY, AND I WANT IT NOW!

"[George Lucas] rebooted the franchise in 1997 without telling anyone." -skyjedi2005

"Yeah, well, George says a lot of things..." a young 1997 xhonzi on RASSM

"They're my movies." -George Lucas. 19 people won oscars for their work on Star Wars (1977) and George Lucas wasn't one of them.

Rewrite the Prequels!

 

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I can only agree with theprequelsrule on all points, except that the prequels rule.

Keep Circulating the Tapes.

END OF LINE

(It hasn’t happened yet)

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I on the other hand cannot condone anything theprequelsrule says as the handling of KOTORII left a really bad taste in my mouth. =P I've been meaning to try that mod, never knew if they finally released it or not.

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Dark Force Rising

I'm already half way through the third novel in the Thrawn Trilogy and didn't yet post my review of the second.  Man, I'm falling down on the job.

No spoilers.

As was expected, great stuff.  Very pleased with the thorough, adult nature in which Zahn handles Star Wars. My thoughts  from the first novel still apply;

No cutesy bullshit, no droid antics, no children's comedy.  A serious science fiction story continuing in the vein of the first two films, but with much deeper character development.  Mara was particularly well written.

That goes doubly so for Mara.  Possibly even more of a focus on her in this novel and that's just fine with me.  She's fantastically written and the character development through the course of the first two novels should be the paradigm on how to handle character development and depth. 

Loved the story of the lost Katana fleet!  Again, sorry these were never made into non-Lucas-involved films. They read like screenplays.

Digging Last Command as well.

 

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The Last Command

*No spoilers*

I finished the Thrawn Trilogy last night with the completion of the third book The Last Command.  In a word - unbelievable!  Absolutely the best anything to carry the name Star Wars I've ever read.  Zahn has surpassed Daley as my go-to for personal canon.  This trilogy really captures the magic I felt back in 1977.  Command was particularly hard to put down.  The character depth of Luke, Mara, and Leia was fantastic. The character arc of Mara made the novel for me.  Zahn is definitely Star Wars for adults. No doubt the Thrawn Trilogy will be a yearly read for me.

Next up is Spectre Of The Past, which I started literally about 60 seconds after I finished Last Command, around 3:00 AM last night.  My EU and personal canon continue to grow. Reviews as the rest are completed.

Side note;  Last Command also carries a second distinction in my world.  It was my first foray into e-books.  My thoughts so far are that nothing can replace an actual book, but I was much more comfortable with it than I thought I'd be.

I have the Thrawn trilogy in paperback, but decided to give Kindle reading a try with Command so I could read later into the night without keeping anyone awake with my book light. It went well enough after a day, so I went ahead and downloaded Spectre and Vision.  I'll get used paperbacks for travel, but electronic is going to be fine also.

 

 

 

 

 

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Man, I am elated that OT.com has increased Anchorhead's personal canon so much!  Guess there is escapist magic to some of the EU after all.  This is a huge jump from being a Star Wars '77 only fan when I first showed up.

A Goon in a Gaggle of 'em

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Anchorhead said:

The Last Command

*No spoilers*

I finished the Thrawn Trilogy last night with the completion of the third book The Last Command.  In a word - unbelievable!  Absolutely the best anything to carry the name Star Wars I've ever read.  Zahn has surpassed Daley as my go-to for personal canon.  This trilogy really captures the magic I felt back in 1977.  Command was particularly hard to put down.  The character depth of Luke, Mara, and Leia was fantastic. The character arc of Mara made the novel for me.  Zahn is definitely Star Wars for adults. No doubt the Thrawn Trilogy will be a yearly read for me.

Next up is Spectre Of The Past, which I started literally about 60 seconds after I finished Last Command, around 3:00 AM last night.  My EU and personal canon continue to grow. Reviews as the rest are completed.

Side note;  Last Command also carries a second distinction in my world.  It was my first foray into e-books.  My thoughts so far are that nothing can replace an actual book, but I was much more comfortable with it than I thought I'd be.

I have the Thrawn trilogy in paperback, but decided to give Kindle reading a try with Command so I could read later into the night without keeping anyone awake with my book light. It went well enough after a day, so I went ahead and downloaded Spectre and Vision.  I'll get used paperbacks for travel, but electronic is going to be fine also.

Glad you enjoyed it Anchor. Out of all three The Last Command remains my favourite (aside from the contrived Luuke Clone).

<span style=“font-weight: bold;”>The Most Handsomest Guy on OT.com</span>

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The Last Command is a very good book. I'm not fond of how Zahn tied the Luuke clone to Luke's vision on Dagobah, though.

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greenpenguino said:

Anchorhead said:

The Last Command

*No spoilers*

I finished the Thrawn Trilogy last night with the completion of the third book The Last Command.  In a word - unbelievable!  Absolutely the best anything to carry the name Star Wars I've ever read.  Zahn has surpassed Daley as my go-to for personal canon.  This trilogy really captures the magic I felt back in 1977.  Command was particularly hard to put down.  The character depth of Luke, Mara, and Leia was fantastic. The character arc of Mara made the novel for me.  Zahn is definitely Star Wars for adults. No doubt the Thrawn Trilogy will be a yearly read for me.

Next up is Spectre Of The Past, which I started literally about 60 seconds after I finished Last Command, around 3:00 AM last night.  My EU and personal canon continue to grow. Reviews as the rest are completed.

Side note;  Last Command also carries a second distinction in my world.  It was my first foray into e-books.  My thoughts so far are that nothing can replace an actual book, but I was much more comfortable with it than I thought I'd be.

I have the Thrawn trilogy in paperback, but decided to give Kindle reading a try with Command so I could read later into the night without keeping anyone awake with my book light. It went well enough after a day, so I went ahead and downloaded Spectre and Vision.  I'll get used paperbacks for travel, but electronic is going to be fine also.

Glad you enjoyed it Anchor. Out of all three The Last Command remains my favourite (aside from the contrived Luuke Clone).

So much for saving the spoiler free Anchorhead version :)  I personally found it, well, I suppose contrived, but handled quite well.  Clones have been overused and are about as cliched as any sci-fi plot device, but I personally think it mirrors Luke's challenge in ESB in the cave nicely, and also makes use of seemingly lost...er...artifacts (trying to preserve some surprise for the unenlightened) in the creation of Luuke.  Anchorhead, I truly agree it is an excellent series and Mara's arc is fantastic and deep.  I found both major antagonists, Thrawn and C'boath, worthy successors as primary villains.  Neither is either the Emperor, Vader, or even Tarkin, yet they are worthy opponents with their own unique dangerous traits.

As for Spectre of the Past, I enjoy Zahn's writing, but for me personally the EU had been ruined by the time this book came out, and efforts at redeeming it on his part could only go so far.  I hope you do enjoy it, and might recommend reading some of the less enjoyable stuff to at least familiarize yourself with how things stand at this point, specifically Dark Empire and the Jedi Academy Trilogy.  However, I'm sure you can enjoy the plot well enough with a few lapses in your timeline.

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If you were going to fill in your timeline for the Bantam-era EU, why not fill it in with things that reference those other stories but are good, like the X-Wing novels and I, Jedi? The latter pretty much retells the JAT but from another character's point of view (the whole book doesn't focus on this, but it is in there) and it seems like a lot of people prefer that book's take.

(I actually didn't mind DE so much, probably just because of the volume of spacecraft designs.)

"Star Wars films are basically silent movies. And they're designed as silent movies, therefore the music carries a -- has a very large role in carrying the story, more than it would in a normal movie."  -GL

"NOO! NOOOOOO!!" - Darth Vader

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darth_ender said:

 Clones have been overused and are about as cliched as any sci-fi plot device, but I personally think it mirrors Luke's challenge in ESB in the cave nicely, and also makes use of seemingly lost...er...artifacts (trying to preserve some surprise for the unenlightened) in the creation of Luuke.

I also thought the artifact was an interesting twist, as was it's final destination.  ;-)

 

 Mara's arc is fantastic and deep.  I found both major antagonists, Thrawn and C'boath, worthy successors as primary villains.  Neither is either the Emperor, Vader, or even Tarkin, yet they are worthy opponents with their own unique dangerous traits.

Agree.  The antagonists are as worthy as any in the films.  They certainly have more depth. Personally, I've always felt the emperor was a poorly written character.  A cardboard cutout.  People's memories of him in the Zahn books are handled much better than the actual filmed character was in Return.  

Mara, as I mentioned before, should be "How To Properly Create And Develop A Character 101"  Her past, her internal struggles, her arc, etc - all handled perfectly. I really dug Karrde also.  Glad to see he's still around in Spectre.

 

As for Spectre of the Past, I enjoy Zahn's writing, but for me personally the EU had been ruined by the time this book came out, and efforts at redeeming it on his part could only go so far.

I've attempted to read some really bad EU and ended up throwing it in the trash (literally) after a few chapters, so I know I'm entering some sketchy territory.  I have enough Zahn to hold me for a while.  As to whether or not I venture into other EU authors;  I'll have to defer to those around here who are much more versed in the later EU.

If I don't read any more, the Zahn novels will more than suffice for my Star Wars universe. To me, they're that good.

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darth_ender said:

As for Spectre of the Past, I enjoy Zahn's writing, but for me personally the EU had been ruined by the time this book came out, and efforts at redeeming it on his part could only go so far.  I hope you do enjoy it, and might recommend reading some of the less enjoyable stuff to at least familiarize yourself with how things stand at this point, specifically Dark Empire and the Jedi Academy Trilogy.

Please stay far, far away from the Jedi Academy Trilogy.

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I actually prefer the Jedi Academy Trilogy to Dark Empire, though I like neither that much.  They both had some good qualities, but they also both had a lot of crap.

I liked the storyline of the Jedi Academy Trilogy* enough in spite of its shortcomings to be willing to give I, Jedi a shot.  I don't get through books as quickly literally reading, as I'm very busy studying.  However, my job requires a lot of driving, so I get to listen to audio books a lot, but I prefer unabridged books to get the complete story, depth, and all that jazz.  Anyone know of an unabridged version?

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I kinda like the Jedi Academy Trilogy; it's how I'd imagine those old pulp magazines to be - not particularily well-written, but entertaining nonetheless.

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You know, I remember when I first heard of the the Jedi Academy Trilogy...I couldn't have been more than 11 years old, and my friend had read all three.  He described the book to me, particularly the Sun Crusher, and Exar Kun/Luke's disembodiment.  I remember thinking the ideas were rather stupid.  I still think they are pretty dumb, but I've learned to enjoy the EU better, as I've said many times on her before, by reading the books somewhat in isolation instead of part of a large continuity.  I didn't like a dinky little ship being more powerful than the Death Star before, but when I finally read the trilogy mere months ago, I didn't mind it as much because I sort of let go of the idea that this had to exist in my personal Star Wars universe.  I just let it be, and decided that I could like the Sun Crusher as its own plot device.

Since I'd rather discuss the Thrawn Trilogy, but never gave much of an opinion on the Jedi Academy trilogy before, I will mention my likes and dislikes, and hopefully I can steer back towards the previous conversation.

Things I liked:
The concept of Luke re-establishing the Jedi Order with an Academy
The general idea of Exar Kun, though I feel he was poorly executed
The corruption of a student, though again the execution wasn't fantastic, and his repentance was pretty lame...but I'll save this for the second part of this list
A rogue admiral with her fleet
Kessell
Kinda liked the Death Star prototype, though another Death Star is cliched
Grew to like the Sun Crusher

Things I did not like:
The Blobstacle Course--absolutely worst idea
Admiral Daala's ongoing charisma in spite of her repeated failure
Exar Kun's defeat
Another fallen Jedi who, in spite of repeated warning that "once you start down the dark path..." manages to return to the light, as well as the self-inflicted tragedy surrounding this character
The Maw administrative staff and the ridiculous 'humor' surrounding their escapades
The nature of glitterstim spice
The description of Sabaac, which I used to think was a game that required some level of skill

But for the Thrawn Trilogy, there was little I did not like.  I don't want to make the same list as above because I think aspects of the story are harder to tease apart anyway.  I love Thrawn (my very first online handle was thrawn_da_man, even before my previous handle that I've shared with some of you).  Some take issue with his leaps in judgment, but I find it well explained and deliberately somewhat beyond our understanding (you have to understand art!).  Heck, he even makes mistakes, and his confidence in his ability to outguess his opponents serves as a weakness.  I used to think C'baoth was boring when I was younger, but this most recent reading was fascinating, as his menace was not his power and intelligence, but his power and instability.  I really enjoyed the character development of the protagonists, really liked the Noghri and their culture, and thought highly of the more neutral characters, such as Talon Karrde.  I thought the ysalamiri were fascinating, as were the vornskrs.  I guess the main thing I did not like was the slow pacing at times and the New Republic's too frequent success (I would have liked to have seen them closer to the edge of defeat).  This trilogy should be made into some sort of screen version, even if its a TV miniseries with other actors filling in the roles.  I really love this trilogy.

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darth_ender said:


The general idea of Exar Kun, though I feel he was poorly executed


He's better in the Tales of the Jedi comics, IMO.

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I like Shadows of the Empire, even if it would pave the way for the rampant commercialism that would characterise the prequels.

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i really enjoyed the Han Solo trilogy. i was expecting a slow moving story, but it actually kept me reading from beginning to end.

Rogue Squadron has always been a favorite. Rebels fighting the remnants of the empire to build the New Republic? Awsome!

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Judge said:

I like Shadows of the Empire, even if it would pave the way for the rampant commercialism that would characterise the prequels.

Even though SotE exhibits all the worst traits of the E.U. - the pointless one-upsmanship in the power of the characters over the movie characters (Dash Rendar is a BETTER pilot than Han!, Xizor is an even BIGGER badass than Vader!, etc., etc., etc.), I still enjoyed this, too.  For me, it felt "Star Wars-y", whereas 95% of the EU that I've sampled doesn't.

I've always had a fantasy of making an all CGI fanfilm of this, high-quality, but I don't believe I have the time or necessarily the organizational skills.  But all the assets are obviously there: the story (in spades), soundtrack, character design, and more.

Another favorite bit of EU are the first two books in the 'Coruscant Nights' trilogy.  The series gets noticeably worse with each book, but the first one is GREAT, the second is solid, but the third is horrible.

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DavidBrennan said:

Another favorite bit of EU are the first two books in the 'Coruscant Nights' trilogy.  The series gets noticeably worse with each book, but the first one is GREAT, the second is solid, but the third is horrible.

 I agree. i thought it was somewhat of a cool tie in with the characters' father from the Darth Maul Novel. Shadow Hunter i believe it was.

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I'm just about to finish re-reading (well, actually re-listening, as I've got it as audio books) the Thrawn Trilogy for about a 10th time and I just love every bit of it! The Trawn's Hand duology was pretty great too IMO, and I don't think one would miss much of the info in the other books. Everything else from Zahn was awesome as well. The only other EU I really liked and ever returned to was the Han Solo trilogy, which is very interestingly written, and quite unique in EU, perhaps because it was written by a woman.

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Harmy said:


The only other EU I really liked and ever returned to was the Han Solo trilogy, which is very interestingly written, and quite unique in EU, perhaps because it was written by a woman.


Uh ... a fair amount of EU has been written by women.

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Sorry, didn't know that. I'm not into EU that much. The Solo trilogy is definitely the only EU written by a woman out of what I've read - at least I think so, in English it is sometimes difficult to know from a name.