walkingdork said:
CP3S said:
darth_ender said:
However, the best answer I've heard, which came from a black member of the Church BTW, is that God allowed an additional challenge to strengthen his people.
That is the best answer you've ever heard? That doesn't even make any sense. Which portion of his people was he strengthening with that? The African American Mormons? Hadn't they been through enough? You could honestly use the "strengthening his people" rebuttal for just about any crappy policy any religion ever had. So, prophet Brigham Young, due to prejudices his social climate created within him... had a prophecy from God telling him to ban African Americans from being leaders in the church? Shouldn't prophecies from God be slightly more universal and less influenced by current prejudices?
In other words, he would have allowed whatever legal, fiscal, and social ramifications come upon the Church, but he felt God commanded that polygamy end. And since it was always taught to be an exception instead of a rule, this should not be interpreted as a matter of convenience to anyone.
Why does it being an exception to the rule make it less of a convenience? The church condoned polygamy, polygamy becomes illegal, and hey, guess what, while God's laws are more important than federal law, it turns out God is changing his views on polygamy to match those of the US government. Not a matter of convenience, just God keeping up with the times, I suppose. If polygamy would have remained something supported by the church for the next long while, I assume the notion that it was because God was strengthening his people would be a valid.
I agree. And why should it be so hard to imagine a human being (whether a holy man or not) adjusting the laws to the political times. Doesn't the Bible say to "obey the laws of the land?" It's not like Religious leaders never make political decisions.
Different denominations of Protestant Christians decided to allow female reverends/pastors/whatever because that's just the world we live in now. Those churches realized the change in society and changed their rules. They didn't need to hear the voice of God say, "Hey Brigham, let someone else have a chance to be a leader. Oh and good news, one of your descendants will be damn good at football. They shall call him....Steve."
Well, you have a good point in your first paragraph. And I want to make it clear that such a climate did spur such changes, at least in the case of polygamy (I really don't believe it affected the priesthood situation at all, as there were no lawsuits or anything of the sort). What I want to make clear is that the situation did not simply change just because of convenience. Many other stands we take are not convenient. My point is simply that we rely on revelation from God in our decisions, not simple political pressures.
However, you are right that we believe in being a law-abiding people. Our 12th Article of Faith states, "We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, magistrates in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law." We are a patriotic people, and we strive to follow the law (though I admit I tend to speed on the road :)
As for other churches and their female pastors, that is not likely to change for us in spite of potential accusations of sexism. We see the roles of male and female different; not superior and inferior, but simply different. Other churches don't believe in a prophet today and therefore try to follow the Bible, but often interpret it in light of present-day society. We do believe in relying on our prophet's direction for policy changes like that.
You may be interested to know that there are small groups that have broken from the primary branch at various points in our history. The largest of these groups, the Community of Christ, formerly known as the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, has been ordaining women since the mid-'80s I believe. They are a much more liberal branch, and at the present are hardly recognizable as a Mormon schismatic group. Their numbers, last I checked, are about 250,000.