Yeah, guess you're right about the blur, I'm just not used to the credits looking this sharp, it just reminds me of the SE I guess. There should definitely be a gate weave in the starfield though and I'd really rather go with the HD starfield.
And 25fps because I work with 25fps throughout the whole process and then convert to 23,976fps only when muxing the final AVCHD.
Ah well, then it wouldn't matter at what framerate I give the file to you, because in AfterEffects you can just right click the file in the project panel, choose "interpret footage" and set its frame rate manually.
Do you have a PNG of the SE starfield? I would add it to the credits and upload the whole thing as a PNG sequence.
Really, isn't that gonna be huge? And I was hoping I'd avoid using After Effects - as an AVI, I could just import it straight into my editing program and only use a still of the first credit for the wipe.
Anyway, here's the starfield - it's the HD starfield from the SE credits with the stars brightened.
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=VL83GTU1
I just can't tell if it's the same starfield though - does anyone know? It definitely is the same starfield as in the original version of ESB and ROTJ and you can see that at first glance, so I'm afraid, it may actually be a different one and they used the same starfield in all 3 SEs. And could the original credits starfield be used somewhere else in the SEs?
And even if we were to use the GOUT starfield, the one you used is too muted. I'm working on a better one now but it would be better if we could find an actual HD version.
Harmy said:
Really, isn't that gonna be huge? And I was hoping I'd avoid using After Effects - as an AVI, I could just import it straight into my editing program and only use a still of the first credit for the wipe.
Doesn't your editing program support PNG sequences? What software are you using? I was thinking PNG so that you have an uncompressed video to work with. But if it's enough for you, I can just export another Xvid with a higher bitrate.
BTW, your idea of taking a still of the first frame of the credits wouldn't work (or at least look slightly "wrong") as it wouldn't have the gate weave. But you can just take a 1 second snippet of the "Written and Directed by GEORGE LUCAS" credit and copy it enough times to cover your wipe.
Great. I should have the starfield for you soon :-) Thanks for doing this - while I wouldn't want to do it myself, I admit that it will make v1.2 better.
I told you ;)
So I shouldn't be using the starfield you've uploaded above?
Um, no, I actually came to a conclusion that it isn't the original starfield, so I tried to enhance the GOUT one:
(top DJ's GOUT, bottom enhanced)
And here's a lossless version:
Laserschwert, these look great. However, to help you make them look as accurate as possible, I'm going to compare your recreation against the real ones and look for errors. I'm not going to nitpick little kerning and spacing issues, but I am going to point out the prominent inaccuracies.
Right now, I see that you put commas after the companies listed for Additional Optical Effects - this is inaccurate, none of them had commas in the original.
Here are the other errors I could find:
Ben Burtt's credit should be "Special Dialogue & Sound Effects", not "Special Dialogue and Sound Effects";
"Dolby Sound Consultant: Stephen Katz" is too close to the Rerecording Mixers credits;
"Assistant to Producer: Bunny Alsup" is too close to "Location Manager: Arnold Ross";
"2nd Unit Make-up" should be "2nd Unit Make Up";
The two lines "Composite Optical Photography" and "Optical Photography Coordinator" need to be brought down closer to the "Optical Printer Operators" credits;
The Dolby "Double-D" you used is a slightly different design than the one used in the film, yours has the D cutout holes smaller than the original. It needs to look more like the one in this: http://www.arsenmusic.com/pic/Logo_Dolby_Digital_EX_IIx.jpg
"See-Threepio (C-3PO)" should be "See Threepio (C3PO)";
"Red Four (John "D")" should have the first quotation marks be "leading" ones (with the curved part on top and looking like 6's, i.e. rotated 180 degrees in relation to the ending ones which have the curved part on the bottom and look like 9's);
As with the Dolby logo, the drop shadow on the MPAA logo and notice should be smaller, more in proportion with the logo and text than it is now.
I think the drop shadows on the whole Dolby logo part are too big in comparison to the actual logo and text. From the infinitesimal remnants of the shadow I can see in the original, it needs to be smaller, more in proportion with the logo and text.
Other than those issues, you basically nailed it. And that's a commendable feat, considering you only had one image of the drop shadow to work from.
I'll make a side-by-side of the two scrolls in case you want to fine-tune the timing, spacing and other little issues.
great job laserschwert. It will be awesome to see in action starting with the wipe, music and all.
"I will laugh my ass off a hundred years from now when the only version of STARWARS people remember are harmys despecialized editions. They will project it on a 20' by 40' screen with perfect quality."
TServo2049 said:
Laserschwert, these look great. However, to help you make them look as accurate as possible, I'm going to compare your recreation against the real ones and look for errors.
Right now, I see that you put commas after the companies listed for Additional Optical Effects - this is inaccurate, none of them had commas in the original.
Good catch! I've corrected those. And thanks for checking... there shouldn't be too many other errors (hopefully!), as I've basically traced the original credits. But it can't hurt to get another pair of eyes look over them :-)
And about the starfield: It looks great, except the blacks are a bit noisy. I've removed the noise and will add a little touch of moving noise back in via After Effects, so that it's not static.
Sounds good, Laserschwert. I'm surprised you guys are putting such effort into the credits, but I suppose it does make a higher quality preservation.
It's not as much effort as taking on the whole film like Harmy did ;-) If each of us would tackle a specific part of the preservation it could be finished like in a day :-P
Laserschwert, I just modified my last post to add the other errors and inaccuracies I spotted. Scroll up and look them over.
Right now, I'm going to sync them up and A/B compare them to the end, then I'll make those long composite images.
Wow, they sync up darn well (except that yours has the MPAA logo scroll all the way up - I'm assuming that fade will be the last thing you put in.)
Wow, thanks for that! Damn, more errors than I thought :D I'll go about and correct them right away.
Timing-wise they do sync up as I've divided them into blocks of text which I've synched up separately. The only differences are caused by the original transfer being warped a bit, so that's when the two version slightly drift apart. But there's no reason to simulate the warping as well, as those are just "problems" from the transfer.
Is the MPAA logo fading out something that was in the original credits? I thought it was done by Harmy, because it looks strange that it just fades out midway to the screen...
I've already fixed the drop shadows on both the Dolby and the MPAA logo... they were too big and opaque because of some wrong settings, and are now the same size and color as the normal text.
Thanks again for checking!
"Dolby Sound Consultant: Stephen Katz" is too close to the Rerecording Mixers credits
BTW, the errors regarding spacing are really tough... as you might notice, due to the warping the spacing does match up once the text reaches the top of the screen. If I match up those lines, the lines further down won't match anymore. I guess I'll just move the offending parts closer to the next paragraph gap... they won't match up in other areas, but at least the line spacing is a bit more consistent this way.
Yes, as I was making my single image of the credits, I did notice the warp effect (probably lens distortion similar to that in the SW logo pullback and crawl). At that point I gave up on that idea.
I agree that the warping doesn't need to be simulated. I understand that you were trying to get it to sync up, I'd just suggest trying to make it look a little less obvious if at all possible...
And yes, the MPAA logo does fade out midway. In the "opening day" credit roll, it fades out even earlier, and a little faster too. In both cases, original prints had the MPAA rating graphic where video releases have a long period of black.
All right, I've implemented all the changes, now I'll render out the credits... this takes about 2 hours.
Did you get the message about the fade-out in time? Sometimes, new replies show up while I'm making edits to my posts...
Yeah, I've added the fade out :-) But even if I didn't, it wouldn't be so hard to re-render that short segment of the video in a couple of minutes.
But I think I've got all changes, corrections, fades and spacing issues covered now.
Laserschwert, I have to really commend your efforts on this, I am so pleased with your results! I bet an actual scan of the film print would look remarkably similar to your work. Great job and now I'm even more excited about 1.2!
I know many people don't really think of the end credits, but to me they are really important. I think the original people who made this film need to be honored properly and this is a great way to do it. I love watching the original credits with the untouched music and not having to look at the lousy SE credits crow-barred in. You just made that experience a whole lot more enjoyable. Thank you.
Is there any thought of attempting this with TESB or ROTJ?
Glad you like it :-) If Harmy plans to do new versions of TESB and ROTJ, I could probably deal with those as well.
I'm definitely planning to make a new version of ESB but ROTJ is also a possibility - I guess it could do with a few tweaks here and there.
Alright, who's going to recreate the green LFL logo and the Long Time Ago? ;-)
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The finished credits (now at higher bitrate and 25fps):
http://www.mediafire.com/?xrviof97oaz93ab
(And I guess I'll make some "sharper" versions of the LFL and "A long time ago" cards as well... after all I've already made them for the German intros)
Wow, the final version looks fantastic. The seems to be a lot of shaking with the credits in the starfield though... is that gate weave? Is it supposed to be that excessive? I've never noticed it before, but it's very noticeable in this version.
Great work once again.