Sepharih said:
Vladius said:
Sepharih said:
Yeah, sorry, but I'm not buying that the scene does what i'm talking about "subtly" when Palpatine's dialogue flat out contradicts what I'm talking about.
How?
.......
At no point in the entire exchange does palpatine ever imply anything except that luke should just give into his hatred and anger of what palpatine has done, and turn evil. He even chides luke by declaring his friends are his weakness.Sepharih said:
He should have played up on Luke's compassion towards his friends and his desire to save them (mirroring anakin's fall more), trying to convince him to give in to temptation....to do just a little evil to do a greater good.
Instead he pretty much barks about how Luke has already fallen and just doesn't realize it yet, to give into his anger towards palpatine because there is no hope left already, and to strike in vengeance and turn to darkness.
They, of course are his weakness....but pointing that out along with everything else he says and does is antithetical to what I'm talking about. He uses the danger they are in to bring out the anger in luke and get luke to unleash his rage at vader and himself, rather than as a way to tempt luke into playing by his rules.....give in a little and do a little evil ultimately towards a greater good.
Reading through this discussion confuses me.
Here is the understanding I've always had of what happened:
There never was a good reason for Luke to join the Emperor - and that isn't a problem for the story.
Mostly it seemed like the Emperor held out a vague hope that Luke could be turned (only at the suggestion of Vader, who wanted to save Luke), but the Emperor was just as happy to kill Luke. And it was already established that the Emperor's perceptions were faltering (as he could not detect Vader's true feelings).
Up to the electrocution, the Emperor was able to goad Luke into tapping into his anger and hatred. Basically Luke walked into a situation in which he was certain to die if he did not choose the dark side. For a moment there was the chance Luke might choose that route - for no other reason than victory in that moment. Luke surrendered and was nearly killed.
In your viewing of the scene, Seph, I think you're putting the emphasis on the wrong syllable, as it were.
As for edit ideas...could these be cleaned up and inserted into ESB? ;)