Eleven Reasons why ESB is The Suxxor — Page 2

TheBoost said:

haraldo23 said:

sonnyboo just got PWNED!

While Sonny's blog was a catalyst to the idea, I didn't mean to directly attack him, although I do see it totally came off that way.

What really annoyed me was the "50 Reasons ROTJ Sucks" list linked to in that thread. I even remember a thread where some dude said the Saga was stupid because Yoda said "Size matters not" but Obi didn't just hurl the Death Star into the sun.

Besides me just taking a piss, I hope this list and the other one is kind of a commentary on what I see are weak arguments against a lot of things: ROTJ, hating the PT, hating CGI, giving Lucas a sinister purpose to every decision in the creative process, condemning the movies for not being what we would have done, constant talk about "missed opportunities," liking things in the OT while condemning the same thing in the PT.

And while I don't want to get into the opinion vs. fact debate, not all art is subjective. There are objective points to be made, and some are stronger than others.

And of course, I hope the thread's a hoot.

Haha, glad you had the desire to make these threads.

The other thread idea I had that would touch on these issues is about those whose love for Star Wars basically begins and ends with Empire. No doubt that Jedi is more freewheeling than the previous movies. Personally, I love that.

I enjoy Empire's more somber mood, meeting Yoda, seeing the battle on Hoth, the climactic moment in which Luke is told the truth.

I enjoy the adventure of ANH, the wonderful characters, creatures and droids, even silly moments in which the tortured and mourning Leia casually asks Luke, "aren't you a little short for a stormtrooper?" or when Ford ad libs in the cell block intercom.

Certainly there are some things that bother me. It's just silliness when Luke falls into the water in the garbage compactor the second time. The way Leia says "I knew there was more to you than money". I can think of fewer "flaws" in Empire than ANH but that doesn't mean I enjoy ANH less.

Jedi takes the role of spectacular and more upbeat finale. All the characters come together, we meet Jabba, Ewoks, bigger DS. And like both previous movies, there are darker moments like Yoda's death and Luke's confrontation with the Emperor.

We can criticize Yoda's 'convenient' death but it was not markedly different from the too convenient pacing in the previous two movies. Having the Empire brought down by the assistance of unassuming and unadvanced Ewoks is a good story. Their behavior is not markedly sillier than R2's whistling submerged on Dagobah, Chewie startling the mouse droid, 3PO most of the time, trash compactor scene, etc.

Much of the humor comes from the contrast with blaster wielding heroes and tough Imperials. It's not because they talk like idiots, trip over themselves, and generally exhibit stupidity. On the contrary, they have their own 'real' language and habitually exhibit ingenuity and bravery. The silliness mostly comes from the intended obvious contrast.

Some complain about the beginning part at Jabba's. But I don't see it as less purposeful as the start of ESB on Hoth. And I thought Jabba's palace was a lot of fun. A bigger DS was not original, so what? The DS ultimately wasn't the focus of the movie like it was in ANH. And building a bigger DS is just the sort of thing the Empire might do.

Did Leia's Endor costume change portend Padme's wardrobe? Did Ewoks portend Gungans? Such arguments are so inane its mind-numbing. The PT failed for its own reasons, whatever clues of that failure we might tease out of any movie in the OT. I love each of the OT movies, not because of rose-tinted nostalgia glasses. Not because without ANH there wouldn't be Empire. But each on their own merits.

I dislike the PT because the story was confusing and whenever it seemed to make sense, it fell flat. There was no grandeur (trade dispute, "secret" bad guys), no meaningful moments of quiet, excessive and poorly rendered CGI, contradicted the OT in ways that no speech about different points of view could fix, despiritualization of the Force, abundance of throwaway characters, a character who does nothing but speak, act, and think stupidly, costume changes every 5 minutes, abundance of poor acting, etc. Throughout the PT, there is truly a lack of dramatic tension: Anakin is dangerous and troubled...oh that's okay, we know; I just killed women and children...oh that's okay, you're human. These flaws are so rampant and pervasive they cannot compare to any silliness or missed opportunity of the OT.

I offer the usual disclaiming pretense that it is not my intention to change anyone's mind, that this is my own opinion, etc. But I do think harshness toward Jedi is based on a point of view that ignores elements of Star Wars that existed since ANH.

TV's Frink said:

 

WhatsMyName said:

Chirtman said:

I was confused also by Vader one minute being on cloud city then on board his stardestroyer the next. I never could work it out ...... unless it has something to do with his mention of bringing his shuttle.

 There was a short scene in the Original version of the movie where he simply says, "Bring me my shuttle". However, i like the SE version of it better. I think it makes more sense that way.

POTD!

 

It works on so many levels.

The fact that Luke's Training on Dagobah was not given a montage set to Eye of the Tiger is the reason that Empire is THE WORST OF ALL SIX FILMS!

TV's Frink said:

 

WhatsMyName said:

Chirtman said:

I was confused also by Vader one minute being on cloud city then on board his stardestroyer the next. I never could work it out ...... unless it has something to do with his mention of bringing his shuttle.

 There was a short scene in the Original version of the movie where he simply says, "Bring me my shuttle". However, i like the SE version of it better. I think it makes more sense that way.

POTD!

 

a,l,lol

I am just happy it is no never say never again or robocop II.

Side note - found this today at HBP (that place is a treasure trove). Looks to be a very interesting read with various interviews and coverage from pre- to post-production.