My Top 10 Reasons ROTJ sucks — Page 5

The movie left me with so many unanswered questions. Why does Salacious Crumb attack Threepio instead of mourning his dead master? You'd think he try to bite Leia instead!

Why is Boba Fett hanging around Jabba's palace long after delivery of Solo? Was Slave I in the shop for repairs or something?

Was Luke tempted to drop by Tosche Station and rub Fixer and Camie's noses in it?

Does Vader try to tempt Luke long distance at really bad times? Try getting a good night's sleep with "Join me!" echoing in your head at three in the morning!

Why do the Ewoks make Leia a new outfit? Not that I don't envy the little furry bugger that got to measure her for it. ;)

Who on the prop crew thought pasting eyes and teeth on a roadkill deer's butt made for an good alien creature?

sonnyboo said:

Mrebo said:

So, as I conceded from my very first post, sonnyboo, your criticisms have some merit and I agree with some of them. But even if I agreed with all of them completely, I don't see how you conclude RoTJ is worse than the PT. And certainly you're entitled to believe that, but you haven't explained it.

RoTJ is my favorite and I like Ewoks. You're certainly not going to convince me otherwise and you've rightfully stated that isn't your motivation. But I would like to understand your thoughts that you wish to express.

The list clearly stated "Top 10 Reasons Return of the Jedi Sucked".... Not sure why this is being like a book report that needs to be graded, as I made an offhand remark that I liked it least of the 6 movies in the blog, mostly in reference to a PRIOR blog explaining that I was watching all 6 movies, but for whatever reason, several people on this site are fixated on that comment.

As already stated, I didn't know I HAD to explain it. It was also, at no time, the purpose or point to the list. If you want me to write an extensive comparative analysis, perhaps I will someday, but I don't really care enough. These are just movies. As I had also written, I am far more concerned about how they were made than the movies themselves.

If this thread has simply devolved into you insisting it is in fact your opinion that RoTJ sucks...then ok, guess it's pointless to say anything really.

I don't see the value you in trying to diminish the significance of your statement that RoTJ is worse than the PT, as that is a notable statement and you reaffirmed it in this thread, but ok.

You don't have to explain anything. That's usually what happens when one makes a thread on a topic, but if you don't want to engage on this topic of yours nobody can make you.

I offered a few reasons why I don't see some of the issues you cite as great departures from things that happened in the OT. I offered counter-examples to your insistence that there was no dramatic tension at all. To say that the matte paintings were more offensive that so many effects in the other episodes (particularly CGI elements) really doesn't make sense. TheBoost offered offered a competing view about story-crafting vis-a-vis killing main characters.

But, again, okay. You have an opinion.

You now emphasize:

As I had also written, I am far more concerned about how they were made than the movies themselves.

Guess it's not always easy to tell what is an "offhand remark" to fixate on or not.

Now if we are truly focused on "how the movies were made" (whatever you intend that to mean) then perhaps this would be a different conversation. But again, if this is purely your opinion not subject to debate or discussion, okay.

If there is any confusion, let me summarize the state of affairs:

Mrebo said:

But I would like to understand your thoughts that you wish to express.

sonnyboo said:

I expressed the thoughts I intended. I was under the mistaken impression that the title of this thread and the blog made the point. If the title had been at any time "Top 10 Reason ROTJ sucked and the prequels are better", then I'd feel more obliged to write the book report for class. But I didn't.

Mr. Snoops said:

50 Reasons why Return of the Jedi sucks

It's funny. Most of the OT fans always bitch about how prequel fans behave like retards resistent to any kind of rational argument. But when it comes to ROTJ most of the OT fans are exactly like prequel fans. Is ROTJ better than the PT? Yes, but that doesn't mean it can't suck.

Actually you find a lot of criticism here of RoTJ by the OT fans. Those of us engaging the issue here are not behaving "like retards resistent to any kind of rational argument." We do get that kind of ad hominem attack and figurative arm-crossing, however.

One could make a similar list about why ANH or ESB "sucks." At some point, the question would arise why a person is here making such lists, but that's another matter.

In my view the worst thing the PT has done is to damage the integrity of the Star Wars franchise so much that it is necessary to pick even the OT to shreds and focus on its perceived deficiencies. Should we focus on how fake the Wampa and Taun-Tauns looked? And those mynocks? My brother remarked that Yoda looked really fake to him when he watched it recently. How about 3PO's more exaggeratedly annoying role and excessive exposition as Han is being put into carbonite? How about the lack of dramatic tension when the kiss with Leia passes as if it never happened? How about the silly part where R2 falls into the swamp simply to be spit out onto land? How about how silly Luke's face looks when he's wailing about the impossibility of Vader being his father? If you deny any of this, you're just like those PT fans, btw.

Bring_My_Shuttle said:

cthulhu1138:  Perfect! 

 Thank you, Shuttle.

SilverWook said:

Was Luke tempted to drop by Tosche Station and rub Fixer and Camie's noses in it?

The latest Star Wars insider (issue 128) has a pretty interesting article about the creation of the Empire Strikes Back, and to a larger degree, Return of the Jedi radio dramas. 

Apparently, they origianly had a scene in Jedi where Luke went back to Anchorhead and ran into Fixer and Camie, but Lucasfilm asked them to scrap it and it was replaced with the scene at Ben's house.

If you'd like to just glance through it at your nearest newsstand instead of actually buying it, the article if on page 32.  The actual passage reads:

"Daley opened the first episode with a scene that brought Return of the Jedi full circle with the first episode of Star Wars.  On a bridge before Jabba's palace, a cowled and unrecognizable Luke blocks his old Anchorhead buddy , Fixer, and girlfriend, Camie, from crossing.  Fixer, cranky as ever, orders his homemade battle droid 'Gunmetal' to blast the mysterious man out of the way.  But a warbot built out of spare parts is no match for a Jedi Knight.  Luke easily dissembles the hunk to junk and stops his two friends from joining the vile gangster's staff.  While the scene may have lacked the punch and breadth of the rest of Daley's script, if it had been allotted more than six episodes, a full homecoming to Anchorhead could have served as a fitting coda to Luke's childhood and transformation from 'Wormie' to 'Jedi.'"

sonnyboo said:

twooffour said:

FUCK... shit... I'm outta here.

See? I clearly won!!

TWOOFFOUR has surrendered. You all saw it.

 

twooffour is easily startled, but he'll soon be back, and in greater numbers.

For educational purposes, I would like to hear why you think Jedi is worse than Phantom Menace.

sonnyboo said:

Mrebo said:

 But again, if this is purely your opinion not subject to debate or discussion, okay.

Isn't someone saying, I like this movie more than other movies, an opinion? A purely subjective opinion?

Please see bolded. Makes one wonder why the thread was created.

If I were to write a list of my personal subjective reasons why ROTJ is worse than Phantom Menace, aren't anyone's responses also personal subjective reasons?

And people are entitled to disagree and point out flaws with your reasons. If you do not wish to defend your reasons and instead fall back on saying your ultimate conclusion is opinion, then you really really do not need to say anything more (see underlined above).

What exactly will you gain from that? My goal was never to change anyone's mind or make them suddenly remove years of rancor (pun intended) towards prequels or special editions. I made a list of the Top 10 Reasons Return of the Jedi Sucked. I feel I am repeating myself a lot. I guess the public education system really does fail in many ways.

Your reasons don't make much sense. But you are entitled to have whatever opinion of RoTJ you wish.

Aside from me absolutely and with no doubt whatseover WINNING the debate and argument with TWOOFFOUR, who lost so poorly in the most humiliating way online where millions of people can see his intellectual prowess demolished to my superior debate skills, taking that entire victory aside - there isn't much more to say, unless you all want to congratulate me on my beating TWOOFFOUR so concisively.

So you made a thread about your opinion that you don't want to engage in discussion about because it's your opinion and then declare "victory"? This is the kind of nonsense that says a whole lot about your intent in posting here.

Darth Bizarro said:

For educational purposes, I would like to hear why you think Jedi is worse than Phantom Menace.

C'mon, that's his opinion. He's not here to write a thesis :p

Darth Bizarro said:

twooffour is easily startled, but he'll soon be back, and in greater numbers.

HAH!

Darth Bizarro said:

Oh boy, as soon as he said worst of the six I just knew the flames were gonna start.

 Show me one flame.

RE: The sonnyboy vs 2/4 (feat MRebo) debate

The problem, sonny, is that you claim to give reasons why RotJ is the worst of the six.  All you really gave was a few things you didn't like about RotJ.

You would need to write comparing and contrasting observations to make your case that it's the worst.

For example:

Apples vs Oranges
by xhonzi

Apples are better than oranges.  To wit: Apples come Washington and are red, except for when they're green and sometimes they're a little bit yellow.  They are round and you can put one in your lunch.  They have lots of natural sugars in them and start with a vowel.  Sometimes I slice them and others I just eat them.

Q.E.D.