My Top 10 Reasons ROTJ sucks — Page 4

twooffour said:

Yea, right. It's a decent list of "10 things that bug me about ROTJ", but if you wanna claim it's worse than the prequels, you need more than that.

Apparently, you need more than that. I'm perfectly content with my list, as is, and letting it bother you a lot more than me.

twooffour said:

Darth Bizarro said:

twooffour said:

Having that all said, don't you think you're acting a bit too defensive for a dude who started his own thread about 10 reasons why chocolate is better than vanilla ice cream? :D

Don't you think you're behaving a bit to offensively for a thread about a FREAKING MOVIE.

I don't see how I'm being particularly "offensive", except in the regular way of joining in and saying something makes no sense, which is a fairly regular thing to do when talking about a freaking movie ;)

If it means anything, I do not find you to be "offensive". You're expressing your opinion, and nothing you are saying is remotely personal or insulting, so please feel free and continue.

WhatsMyName said:

I liked the Jedi Rocks scene

sonnyboo said:

twooffour said:

Having that all said, don't you think you're acting a bit too defensive for a dude who started his own thread about 10 reasons why chocolate is better than vanilla ice cream? :D

No. I think you are projecting your opinion of what I'm writing as being defensive.

I do not think you or anyone else is 'wrong' for liking JEDI or disagreeing with my opinions. I simply have my opinions that are entirely subjective, as you do yours. Your opinion is in no way objective or absolute for anyone other than yourself and those who share your point of view.

 

Well, you posted a list of 10 arguments why ROTJ was supposed to suck, and didn't like the mere fact that someone challenged that list.

That's the very definition of defensive.

"Well stand by your opinion then, I doubt you can make any solid case for it."

"I was never trying to convince you or anyone else to change their minds. That was never my intention. I merely expressed my opinions, as they are."

You start out the thread by... making a case, but as soon as that case is challenged, you back off and insist on how you're not obliged to do any more of that.
Well, of course you're not, but then you have a weak case ;)

Did I ever say you expressed your opinions as they were not? ;)

I do not think you or anyone else is 'wrong' for liking JEDI or disagreeing with my opinions.

I simply have my opinions that are entirely subjective, as you do yours.

ur opinion is in no way objective or absolute for anyone other than yourself and those who share your point of view.

Just because it isn't "absolute" doesn't mean it's not better backed up than yours, and when you cite flaws in ROTJ that supposedly make it worse than the prequels, while those exact flaws are even worse in the prequels (according to the parameters you yourself defined), then I smell a contradiction.

sonnyboo said:

twooffour said:

Yea, right. It's a decent list of "10 things that bug me about ROTJ", but if you wanna claim it's worse than the prequels, you need more than that.

Apparently, you need more than that. I'm perfectly content with my list, as is, and letting it bother you a lot more than me.

You're "content" with it because you refuse to look at the glaring flaws in your list that I and others point out to you.

The reason I need more is because what you've presented so far demonstrably fails to make a case for ROTJ being worse than the PT, and YOU need more in order to convince any of your readers that have seen through the gaps and post them in this thread.

I never said you needed anything to convince yourself of anything ;)

How about you try to respond to a few of those objections instead of hastily shielding your ego from objections to your blog? Would make things interesting for once - because just reading one "oh, but that's just my opinion, and it's just yours, so can you respect that" after the other frankly gets quite boring.

And that's why you STOPPED! :D

sonnyboo said:

twooffour said:

Darth Bizarro said:

twooffour said:

Having that all said, don't you think you're acting a bit too defensive for a dude who started his own thread about 10 reasons why chocolate is better than vanilla ice cream? :D

Don't you think you're behaving a bit to offensively for a thread about a FREAKING MOVIE.

I don't see how I'm being particularly "offensive", except in the regular way of joining in and saying something makes no sense, which is a fairly regular thing to do when talking about a freaking movie ;)

If it means anything, I do not find you to be "offensive". You're expressing your opinion, and nothing you are saying is remotely personal or insulting, so please feel free and continue.

Ok, thanks. Then you also must realize that nothing I say is actually aimed against your person, so if you don't feel like wading through the objections and thinking up a response, there's also no need to guard your stance from what is mere expression of opinion by quoting Big Lebowski all the time, right? ;)

TV's Frink said:

WhatsMyName said:

I liked the Jedi Rocks scene

wut

 did i studder?

Okay, sorry, I agree I went over the top with the above (once again).
Seems like the more I actually ought to be doing something else, the feistier I get :)

Yea, all points have been made, so I guess I'm outta...

WhatsMyName said:

TV's Frink said:

 

WhatsMyName said:

I liked the Jedi Rocks scene

wut

 

 did i studder?

I do like it in a certain way, as a very silly (but openly and honestly so) goofy rap mock-up with rather fun CG characters.

But I'd prefer it as some kind of DVD easter egg (like those they've included as hidden features, with Yoda dancing, toasters jumping out of landing platforms and all that) because it doesn't really fit into the movie and feels like a commercial break.

Unless you disagree with that, as well...

WhatsMyName said:

TV's Frink said:

 

WhatsMyName said:

I liked the Jedi Rocks scene

wut

 

 did i studder?

I don't know.  What does it mean to studder?

Darth Bizarro said:

TV's Frink said:

WhatsMyName said:

TV's Frink said:

 

WhatsMyName said:

I liked the Jedi Rocks scene

wut

 

 did i studder?

I don't know.  What does it mean to studder?

I think the proper term is Ric finder.

Fixed in the most dashing way possible.

Darth Bizarro said:

twooffour said:


Having that all said, don't you think you're acting a bit too defensive for a dude who started his own thread about 10 reasons why chocolate is better than vanilla ice cream? :D

Don't you think you're behaving a bit to offensively for a thread about a FREAKING MOVIE.

About Lapti Nek - you have to understand that after seeing Jedi so many times between '83 and '97, I know this number inside-out. All of Sy Snootles' vocal flourishes, etc. This is very much a part of the film I love, so to simply replace it with something else... doesn't work for me.

Did someone actually say Yoda's death was a good scene?

Contextually it's bonkers beyond belief.

YODA : Hi Luke, thanks for coming back, *cough* I'm a bit unwell, I'll be dead soon, yep we lied about your dad because you weren't a Jedi yet but you are practically a Jedi now...you...have....a sis....ter...... 

twooffour said:

sonnyboo said:

twooffour said:

Having that all said, don't you think you're acting a bit too defensive for a dude who started his own thread about 10 reasons why chocolate is better than vanilla ice cream? :D

No. I think you are projecting your opinion of what I'm writing as being defensive.

I do not think you or anyone else is 'wrong' for liking JEDI or disagreeing with my opinions. I simply have my opinions that are entirely subjective, as you do yours. Your opinion is in no way objective or absolute for anyone other than yourself and those who share your point of view.

 

Well, you posted a list of 10 arguments why ROTJ was supposed to suck, and didn't like the mere fact that someone challenged that list.

That's the very definition of defensive.

"Well stand by your opinion then, I doubt you can make any solid case for it."

"I was never trying to convince you or anyone else to change their minds. That was never my intention. I merely expressed my opinions, as they are."

You start out the thread by... making a case, but as soon as that case is challenged, you back off and insist on how you're not obliged to do any more of that.
Well, of course you're not, but then you have a weak case ;)

Did I ever say you expressed your opinions as they were not? ;)

I do not think you or anyone else is 'wrong' for liking JEDI or disagreeing with my opinions.

No one cares about that - you made a case yourself, and it was flawed by its arguments, so I think YOU'RE wrong for thinking that those 10 things make ROTJ the worst of them all (again, I'm not saying that the points themselves are all invalid).

Again a defensive reaction: "I don't claim your opinion to be wrong, so don't be attacking mine."

I simply have my opinions that are entirely subjective, as you do yours.

If they're entirely subjective, why don't you just post that you didn't like the movie?
As soon as you start making lists of arguments, you're moving out of the safe realm of "entirely subjective", because such arguments can be flawed, I hope you realize that?

ur opinion is in no way objective or absolute for anyone other than yourself and those who share your point of view.

And yet another defensive reaction - "it's just your opinion man, so leave mine alone, too".

 

Just because it isn't "absolute" doesn't mean it's not better backed up than yours, and when you cite flaws in ROTJ that supposedly make it worse than the prequels, while those exact flaws are even worse in the prequels (according to the parameters you yourself defined), then I smell a contradiction.

twooffour said:

sonnyboo said:

twooffour said:

Having that all said, don't you think you're acting a bit too defensive for a dude who started his own thread about 10 reasons why chocolate is better than vanilla ice cream? :D

No. I think you are projecting your opinion of what I'm writing as being defensive.

I do not think you or anyone else is 'wrong' for liking JEDI or disagreeing with my opinions. I simply have my opinions that are entirely subjective, as you do yours. Your opinion is in no way objective or absolute for anyone other than yourself and those who share your point of view.

 

Well, you posted a list of 10 arguments why ROTJ was supposed to suck, and didn't like the mere fact that someone challenged that list.

That's the very definition of defensive.

Can you please show anywhere I wrote I did not like what anyone else stated?

I made a list of MY top ten reasons RETURN OF THE JEDI sucks. I stated my top ten reasons. These reasons are subjective and any counter arguments appear to be equally valid and subjective. At no time did I say anything otherwise.

I never made arguments. I made subjective statements of opinions. Your the only one really making this out to be something other than that. You say no one cares that these are solely opinions, etc. but it's all in your mind. I'm not saying anything other than what I'm ACTUALLY writing, not what you are deluding.

You appear to be saying that my opinions are wrong. My subjective opinions are somehow not correct. Not different from yours, but objectively wrong. Unfortunately, that simply is not true and we arrive at an impasse. I'm willing to say that the world can have all kinds of opinions, and you seem to believe yours are better than everyone else's and you are right.

You have failed to make a good actual argument or "win" because there was nothing to win. Honestly, you just seem like a frustrated high school debate drop out. You are out to win an "argument" that exists solely in your imagination.

Peace.

twooffour said:

ur opinion is in no way objective or absolute for anyone other than yourself and those who share your point of view.

And yet another defensive reaction - "it's just your opinion man, so leave mine alone, too".

 

Whoa, I never said leave my opinions alone. Where did that come from? Your imagination. Your ability to assume and be wrong is amazing. It's like a Jedi skill.

http://youtu.be/XVCtkzIXYzQ

Mrebo said:

So, as I conceded from my very first post, sonnyboo, your criticisms have some merit and I agree with some of them. But even if I agreed with all of them completely, I don't see how you conclude RoTJ is worse than the PT. And certainly you're entitled to believe that, but you haven't explained it.

RoTJ is my favorite and I like Ewoks. You're certainly not going to convince me otherwise and you've rightfully stated that isn't your motivation. But I would like to understand your thoughts that you wish to express.

The list clearly stated "Top 10 Reasons Return of the Jedi Sucked".... Not sure why this is being like a book report that needs to be graded, as I made an offhand remark that I liked it least of the 6 movies in the blog, mostly in reference to a PRIOR blog explaining that I was watching all 6 movies, but for whatever reason, several people on this site are fixated on that comment.

As already stated, I didn't know I HAD to explain it. It was also, at no time, the purpose or point to the list. If you want me to write an extensive comparative analysis, perhaps I will someday, but I don't really care enough. These are just movies. As I had also written, I am far more concerned about how they were made than the movies themselves.

I expressed the thoughts I intended. I was under the mistaken impression that the title of this thread and the blog made the point. If the title had been at any time "Top 10 Reason ROTJ sucked and the prequels are better", then I'd feel more obliged to write the book report for class. But I didn't.

I have the utmost respect for the subjective. I will not insinuate that someone is "wrong" for disagreeing with my opinions. It's a shame when people try to force their opinions as facts.

Jaskoen said:

http://youtu.be/XVCtkzIXYzQ

This dude abides...

That's pretty much what defensive statements such as this:

"I simply have my opinions that are entirely subjective, as you do yours. Your opinion is in no way objective or absolute for anyone other than yourself and those who share your point of view."

... amount to. Not a direct request to quit challenging your opinions, but a clear attempt to shieled its "validity" or "right to exist" from said challenges under the guise of "subjectivity".

These reasons are subjective and any counter arguments appear to be equally valid and subjective.

I never made arguments. I made subjective statements of opinions.

Unfortunately, that simply is not true and we arrive at an impasse.

I'm willing to say that the world can have all kinds of opinions, and you seem to believe yours are better than everyone else's and you are right.

You have failed to make a good actual argument or "win" because there was nothing to win.

Honestly, you just seem like a frustrated high school debate drop out.

You are out to win an "argument" that exists solely in your imagination.

Hey, wasn't my first comment something along the lines of "Since it says 6, I'm not gonna read it" (I actually did)?

Didn't I proceed to drop remarks like "this is a decent list of things that bug you about ROTJ, but in no way does it amount to your position on the prequels"?

Seems like I've already done all the disclaimer work for you ;)


But yea, again, write whatever blog you want, don't write whatever you want, but as it stands now, we have a rough idea of what you don't like about ROTJ, but your claim, or "opinion", that they also make it worse than the prequels (which you bothered to put in the title, no less), remains unsupported.

(Generally, with a statement like this in your opening post: "I wrote a blog about why ROTJ is the worst of the 6 movies" [False; it doesn't say anything about the other 5, which it should as many points in it apply to those as well], you reall shouldn't wonder why people actually take you up on that.)

If you're fine with that, then don't write any articles on that - but then people will continue saying it's unsupported... but you're fine with that :D