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The Prequel Radical Redux Ideas Thread — Page 229

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Fleabite said:

Perhaps a small improvement could be made to the prequel duels by making them look somewhat less choreographed. I did a small experiment with the Obi-Wan/Maul duel by running a segment of the footage backwards. It gives the movements a bit more supernatural rather than it looking like a practiced dance recital.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6t_N7ZgRCI

 

I thought that was a bit too short to see how it would really work in the context of the fight.

Or you could always go this route:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=2KkIgBKr7tE#t=69s

;-)

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Well, Frink, yours does lend some much-needed realism to the clip. The sense of danger is palpable. Or palpatine. One of those.

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mrbenja0618 said:

You know, that's like arguing that a real gun fight is just like a paint ball war. You act differently when you know your life is danger, but with paint ball you know you're not going to die from anything so you do things that would be foolish and risky in a real gun fight.

PT looks like paint ball.

Honestly.....let's not kid ourselves here.....most of the firefights in the OT look like paintball.  Just sayin.....

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Sepharih said:

mrbenja0618 said:

You know, that's like arguing that a real gun fight is just like a paint ball war. You act differently when you know your life is danger, but with paint ball you know you're not going to die from anything so you do things that would be foolish and risky in a real gun fight.

PT looks like paint ball.

Honestly.....let's not kid ourselves here.....most of the firefights in the OT look like paintball.  Just sayin.....

Well, I was more referring to the lightsaber fights... You are very much correct about gun fights in any of the Star Wars movies.

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 (Edited)

Here's an idea that might help make Revenge of the Sith match Return of the Jedi's revelations a little more.

When Amidala confronts Anakin about turning to the Dark Side, she begs him to come away with her. It'd seem that this conflicts somewhat with Vader's statement that it was Obi-Wan who "once thought like Luke" in asking him to come with him. In Revenge of the Sith, it doesn't seem that Obi-Wan makes any such offer to Vader.

A way to fix this incongruity would be to change Amidala's lines around a little.

"Come away with me. Leave everything else behind. Obi-Wan knows...He wants to help us."

In this way, Obi-Wan becomes an accomplice in their escape, which also helps solidify the friendship between Anakin and Obi-Wan (and boy does their friendship need solidifying). Even in the most dire circumstances, Obi-Wan is reluctant to "do what he must" and instead offers his friend Anakin a way out - that is, until it becomes clear that he's too far-gone to help.

Edit:

Oh, and looking at that scene, there's a lot more cutting that needs to be done.

Anakin's bullet-points of things he's brought to his "new empire" should definitely be cut down. I'd say "security" would be enough, dropping "freedom", "justice" and "peace" from the list, 'cause security is probably higher on the mind of insecure ol' Anakin than any of the others.

I'd also suggest that Palpatine's ominous "and we shall have peace" line be changed. Peace has universally positive connotations, so it's dissonant to hear it coming out of the mouth of Emperor McMonsterface.

If the Order 66 line is removed, the line could be altered to "And we shall have order", which is more in line with the aspirations of Palpatine's authoritarian dictatorship. In fact, it'd seem that Palpatine's New Order necessitates a hell of a lot of conflict, but that conflict itself may be part of Palpatine's conception of what proper "order" entails.

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mrbenja0618 said:

MrInsaneA said:

Realism? Dude, it's not like they CGI-ed the swordplay in the Mustafar fight. That was their actual movements, in real time. So if they actually did that, that means it's in the realm of possibility. I don't know why two actors awkwardly swinging laser swords at each other is any different from two actors SKILLFULLY swinging laser swords at each other. 

Point is, while some people may like the OT fights better, that doesn't mean the Prequel fights should conform to them. At least in my opinion.

You know, that's like arguing that a real gun fight is just like a paint ball war. You act differently when you know your life is danger, but with paint ball you know you're not going to die from anything so you do things that would be foolish and risky in a real gun fight.

PT looks like paint ball.

Okay fine. But y'know what?
I love paintball. :D

 

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Here's a question...

Do you think Tatooine could be entirely recut so that our first introduction to Anakin is the Podrace... i.e. Qui-Gon goes to Mos Eisley and ends up watching the Podrace and seeing Anakin win? Tatooine I think is one of the massive weaknesses of TPM; Could his Jedi mind trick on Watto be changed to work? (It is ridiculous that Republic credits aren't accepted; the Republic would surely of been a bit like America and it's dollar in that smaller countries many would accept the dollar as currency - especially gambling dens).

Onto Episode II - next question is... Could Anakin and Padme's scenes on Naboo, be changed to Alderaan? Would seem to me there would be more emotional ties to Alderaan being blown up in IV if we see it in the Prequels... Could me the Amidala families "summer" retreat.

"Love is the only reality and it is not a mere sentiment. It is the ultimate truth that lies at the heart of creation." - Rabindranath Tagore

"Many a doctrine is like a window pane. We see truth through it but it divides us from truth." - Kahlil Gibran

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MrInsaneA said:

mrbenja0618 said:

MrInsaneA said:

Realism? Dude, it's not like they CGI-ed the swordplay in the Mustafar fight. That was their actual movements, in real time. So if they actually did that, that means it's in the realm of possibility. I don't know why two actors awkwardly swinging laser swords at each other is any different from two actors SKILLFULLY swinging laser swords at each other. 

Point is, while some people may like the OT fights better, that doesn't mean the Prequel fights should conform to them. At least in my opinion.

You know, that's like arguing that a real gun fight is just like a paint ball war. You act differently when you know your life is danger, but with paint ball you know you're not going to die from anything so you do things that would be foolish and risky in a real gun fight.

PT looks like paint ball.

Okay fine. But y'know what?
I love paintball. :D

 

I do as well. ;)

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jonathan7 said:

Here's a question...

Do you think Tatooine could be entirely recut so that our first introduction to Anakin is the Podrace... i.e. Qui-Gon goes to Mos Eisley and ends up watching the Podrace and seeing Anakin win? Tatooine I think is one of the massive weaknesses of TPM; Could his Jedi mind trick on Watto be changed to work? (It is ridiculous that Republic credits aren't accepted; the Republic would surely of been a bit like America and it's dollar in that smaller countries many would accept the dollar as currency - especially gambling dens).

Onto Episode II - next question is... Could Anakin and Padme's scenes on Naboo, be changed to Alderaan? Would seem to me there would be more emotional ties to Alderaan being blown up in IV if we see it in the Prequels... Could me the Amidala families "summer" retreat.

I've heard ideas like these before, and agree that Alderaan should have played a much larger role. That way when it's blown up we really feel the impact.

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TV's Frink said:

haraldo23 said:

I'm all for dubbing aliens and Jar-Jars in the prequels, but I really don't think that alien languages is the answer.  Cause alien languages mean subtitles. And subtitles mean bunch of jibberish that puts you out of the film.

*facepalm*

I was talking about them talking jibberish. Not subtitles being bad. I mean, like, if they said "Zapper papper? Maba baba waba zaba!" and then a phrase "Are you brain-dead? I'm not going in there with two jedi!" would appear in a subtitle form.

Wouldn't that take you out of the film? The fact that you have to listen to jibberish and read subtitles instead of just seeing them talk and interact with each other?

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jonathan7 said:

Do you think Tatooine could be entirely recut so that our first introduction to Anakin is the Podrace... i.e. Qui-Gon goes to Mos Eisley and ends up watching the Podrace and seeing Anakin win? Tatooine I think is one of the massive weaknesses of TPM; Could his Jedi mind trick on Watto be changed to work? (It is ridiculous that Republic credits aren't accepted; the Republic would surely of been a bit like America and it's dollar in that smaller countries many would accept the dollar as currency - especially gambling dens).

 

I do like the idea of Qui Gon seeing him as strong with the force for being the only human to win a podrace, instead of juiced up on midicholorions.

"The other versions will disappear. Even the 35 million tapes of Star Wars out there won’t last more than 30 or 40 years. A hundred years from now, the only version of the movie that anyone will remember will be the DVD version [of the Special Edition], and you’ll be able to project it on a 20’ by 40’ screen with perfect quality. I think it’s the director’s prerogative, not the studio’s to go back and reinvent a movie." - George Lucas

<span> </span>

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mrbenja0618 said:

Well, I was more referring to the lightsaber fights... You are very much correct about gun fights in any of the Star Wars movies.

I know.....i'm just saying that criticizing the PT saber fights for lacking tension or being unrealistic feels a bit too much like the pot calling the kettle black to me.  Nothing wrong with preferring the OT fights....but while I think there's silly or oddly placed moments in some of the PT fights......I don't really think the choreography is any less over the top than a great deal of things in the OT.

 

jonathan7 said:

Here's a question...

Do you think Tatooine could be entirely recut so that our first introduction to Anakin is the Podrace... i.e. Qui-Gon goes to Mos Eisley and ends up watching the Podrace and seeing Anakin win? Tatooine I think is one of the massive weaknesses of TPM; Could his Jedi mind trick on Watto be changed to work? (It is ridiculous that Republic credits aren't accepted; the Republic would surely of been a bit like America and it's dollar in that smaller countries many would accept the dollar as currency - especially gambling dens).

It's an interesting concept....but I don't know how you would best execute it....and it does have problems.

You could have watto imply that while credits are accepted, they don't quite have enough for a new hyper-drive.  Somehow imply that It's not easy to get access to the queen and/or jedi's funds without drawing attention.....so they instead turn to betting on the podraces and qui-gon while there senses something special about the underdog in the race.....a little human boy with odds a 100 to 1 against him.  Effectively the same plot as before....but trimming around the corners and removing the subplot with anakin and cutting to the chase.

It'd take a lot of tricky editing.....but you might be able to pull it off.

The biggest problem I foresee with this is that it might wind up removing whatever tension there is in the podrace since the viewer effectively has no idea who Anakin is as a character or why they should care about him.

Done correctly it could be a good introduction to the character.....but i'm just not sure that the material for it is there.

I think you'll still need some kind of moment between him and the other characters beforehand, and the podrace should be edited to focus less on the tension and danger anakin is in and more on demonstrating how daring and even crazy he is.

jonathan7 said:

Onto Episode II - next question is... Could Anakin and Padme's scenes on Naboo, be changed to Alderaan? Would seem to me there would be more emotional ties to Alderaan being blown up in IV if we see it in the Prequels... Could me the Amidala families "summer" retreat.

I Always like the idea of making Naboo Alderaan personally.  I don't know if anybody will ever find a way to make it work....but it's something I always hope someone will have an epiphany about how to accomplish someday.

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 (Edited)

The ESB saber fight is a textbook nail biter and it's realistic within it's fictional context (it looks like a novice giving his best against a master who is essentially toying with him).

The PT sword fights, all of them as they currently play, have none of that tension and none of that verisimilitude.

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     ^^I've always found the Aldaaran destruction extremely harsh (maybe that's why it was so effective;/)

      I've imagined a scenario where Tarkin dismissively orders to be taken to the nearest troublesome system. Leia is then pleading for another people. She could collapse a bit like Ben. Then the DS proceeds to Aldaaran and the X-wings jump in to save it (GL's draft) 

      I think the ANH duel provided important expo. It gave us a strong sense of the conflict and existance of the Force.

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 (Edited)

Sepharih said:

 

 

jonathan7 said:

Here's a question...

Do you think Tatooine could be entirely recut so that our first introduction to Anakin is the Podrace... i.e. Qui-Gon goes to Mos Eisley and ends up watching the Podrace and seeing Anakin win? Tatooine I think is one of the massive weaknesses of TPM; Could his Jedi mind trick on Watto be changed to work? (It is ridiculous that Republic credits aren't accepted; the Republic would surely of been a bit like America and it's dollar in that smaller countries many would accept the dollar as currency - especially gambling dens).

It's an interesting concept....but I don't know how you would best execute it....and it does have problems.

You could have watto imply that while credits are accepted, they don't quite have enough for a new hyper-drive.  Somehow imply that It's not easy to get access to the queen and/or jedi's funds without drawing attention.....so they instead turn to betting on the podraces and qui-gon while there senses something special about the underdog in the race.....a little human boy with odds a 100 to 1 against him.  Effectively the same plot as before....but trimming around the corners and removing the subplot with anakin and cutting to the chase.

It'd take a lot of tricky editing.....but you might be able to pull it off.

The biggest problem I foresee with this is that it might wind up removing whatever tension there is in the podrace since the viewer effectively has no idea who Anakin is as a character or why they should care about him.

Done correctly it could be a good introduction to the character.....but i'm just not sure that the material for it is there.

I think you'll still need some kind of moment between him and the other characters beforehand, and the podrace should be edited to focus less on the tension and danger anakin is in and more on demonstrating how daring and even crazy he is.

 

       Ani could first appear in his pod on the way to the race. He could have a confrontation with Sebulba and encounter the refugees. Then they all go directly to the race. Or, They could encounter Watto on the way to the race and place a quick wager?;/

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jonathan7 said:

Here's a question...

Do you think Tatooine could be entirely recut so that our first introduction to Anakin is the Podrace... i.e. Qui-Gon goes to Mos Eisley and ends up watching the Podrace and seeing Anakin win? Tatooine I think is one of the massive weaknesses of TPM; Could his Jedi mind trick on Watto be changed to work? (It is ridiculous that Republic credits aren't accepted; the Republic would surely of been a bit like America and it's dollar in that smaller countries many would accept the dollar as currency - especially gambling dens).

Obviously done for laughs, but it's kind of what you are describing...except for the part where Anakin doesn't win ;-)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6fzGv4OYmM

Sorry about the rough audio cuts, it's an old clip.

 

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TV's Frink said:

I haven't thought this through very much, nor have I checked to see if this has been mentioned before...but would it be possible to completely remove Yoda from the prequels?

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/What-was-the-fatal-flaw-of-the-Prequels-if-you-think-they-sucked-aka-Lets-take-a-break-from-hating-on-the-blu-rays/post/536951/#TopicPost536951

Yoda isn't that important to TPM. I think he could be cut from that fairly easily.

In AOTC he doesn't do much important, and his scenes (younglings) could probably be cut easily, but he's IN a few scenes that are needed, so it might be tougher.

The entire Wookie planet sequence could be cut from ROTS no problem. It's the third act where he and Obi and Bail are together that would make removing him totally problematic.

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Please excuse me. I've had another random thought:

How about replacing all the Sidious holograms with Darth Maul holograms in The Phantom Menace? In this way, you'd be able to give Maul some new dialogue, have him appear to be the primary antagonist of the film (as he was set up to be, judging by the promotional material) and actually give him a character.

It'd also make the film a stronger stand-alone piece like A New Hope, because rather than leave the mystery of who the real Dark Lord is hanging, we'd assume that he's been defeated and his scheme failed.

Also, I feel the invasion sequences of Naboo needs to be made more ominous. Currently, the lighting is very cheery (at best neutral) daylight.

Mock-up:

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TheoOdo said:

Also, I feel the invasion sequences of Naboo needs to be made more ominous. Currently, the lighting is very cheery (at best neutral) daylight.

Mock-up:

I did this kind of mockups back then similar to yours. Giving TPM a more serious tone. Not sure if anyone remembers them :)

Forgive the naboo ship shot :/

 

-Angel

 

–>Artwork<–**

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It might be possible to replace Yoda with another character in the few instances where a character in an essential scene is necessary for reaction purposes.

He could also contact the other Jedi as a disembodied telepathic voice from a hidden area for the duration of the PT (like Vader does to Luke in ESB).

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Not to go off topic, but I'm incorporating some ideas similar to stuff that's been brought up here, or so I'm told, in my TPM edit I'm working on. I'd be happy to include some of these other ideas in there too, but I don't have a good track record with special effects. Things like darkening the skies of Naboo I can't really do, but would love to include.

Basically, I want to make a cool, different version of TPM. Not too radical, but different. So if you guys want some of this stuff incorporated, I'll see what I can do!

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As much as a little less Jedi Council would make some sense in the prequels (Seriously, why does the whole Council show up to celebrate a peace treaty on Naboo?), I don't really think eliminating Yoda from the end of ROTS is doable.

ROTJ Storyboard Reconstruction Project

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timdiggerm said:

As much as a little less Jedi Council would make some sense in the prequels (Seriously, why does the whole Council show up to celebrate a peace treaty on Naboo?), I don't really think eliminating Yoda from the end of ROTS is doable.

It would be doable if you took out his fight with Siddy. :O