Gay Mandalorians are definitely the highlight of the EU. I can't wait for the movies.
“It is only through interaction, through decision and choice, through confrontation, physical or mental, that the Force can grow within you.”
-Kreia, Jedi Master and Sith Lord
Once upon a time the Mandalorians were said to be a largely extinct culture, wiped out in the Clone Wars.
Now they're fine and dandy, as numerous as ever, and apparently were never wiped out ever.
Whoever did that, Traviss or EU Schmoe #10, sucks and I loathe them for it.
theprequelsrule said:
Gay Mandalorians are definitely the highlight of the EU. I can't wait for the movies.
As much as I'm cool with the gays, this bothers me. Why even put that in there? Maybe it's just my straight white male viewpoint that's wrong, but it always seems like pandering when people do that.
And to the Mandalorians, no less. "Hey, let's take a group that's known for extreme violence bordering on genocidal bloodlust and go out of our way to make them seem as touchy-feely and inclusive and accepting as possible."
I'm cool with there being more Mandalorians than just Boba and Jango, for the record, because there's a lot of Mandalorian EU (going back to the Marvel comics in the 80s) that's really great and I think they add a lot to the Star Wars galaxy, but they really put it in the hands of the worst writer ever when they let Travissty do her "magic." I'm just glad that her chapter is over that that the damage she did can be undone. I just hope Lucas doesn't screw me over with his Neo-Mandalorian Pacifist stuff.
I'm okay with it for now, like I've said before, because it's not a huge stretch to imagine that Satine swooped in after the massacre at Galidraan and was able to garner pacifist support (not too hard considering that almost all the warriors of the group had died). What would be a huge stretch for me would be if they, due to Lucas, remained pacifist and were able to beat down the Death Watch and have everything end happily ever after. I'm hoping that with these newer, darker seasons of The Clone Wars, we'll get to see Satine assassinated and the Mandalorians return to their warlike ways to show how hopeless things are leading up to the rise of the Empire.
I have faith in Dave Filoni to do the right thing, but in the end, he'll always do what Lucas says.
Keep Circulating the Tapes.
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I think it plays into largely disputed ideas about ancient Sparta and Samurai culture.
Hard as nails war like cultures where same sex relationships aren't frowned upon and are even encouraged have been a staple of myth for centuries and have a degree of basis in real life, I can't see a problem with it.
It's interesting that Star Trek and Star Wars only make room for this sort of thing in their EU when a family show like Doctor Who decorates it's main show with all manner of diversity almost to the point of self parody.
It's the 21st Century, people shouldn't be shocked or even distracted by these things anymore.
It could also just be that Traviss is an idiot and it just seems disingenuous coming from her. My anger isn't towards putting gay people in Star Wars or the Mandalorians, I guess, so much as I don't like her so it rubs me the wrong way that she did it. =P
She did handle it well, though, it wasn't like a "HEY LOOK I PUT THE GAYS IN STAR WARS EVERYONE!" moment. She just put in two guys who were married and that was it, everyone in the book accepted it as fine. It was only when she was asked about it that she outright said they were gay. So I was glad she didn't make a huge deal about it at least.
Keep Circulating the Tapes.
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By your own description it isn't made a big thing of so unless there is a specific contextual reason why it's narratively jarring I (as someone who hasn't read it) can't see a problem there.
The way you describe it sounds more like a little bit of background colour (like Han's previous girlfriends, not vital information but just a bit of added texture which flavours the story).
Seeing as you have read it you are best qualified to explain why it doesn't ring true to you.
One of the things I liked about Sam Adama in Caprica is that he could just as easily have been married to a woman but he just happened to have married a man.
Observing that nobody pays it a bit of notice (not even by the anti-Tauron Capricans) just paints in a bit of detail on Colonial culture in that period of the nuGalactica universe.
I think my rabid anti-Travissism may have colared my perception of the passage.
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A little past the halfway point.
I didn't think it would be possible for a story to come close to the Daley novels for me, but so far this is every bit right there with them. Really digging it. A Star Wars story with depth and character development. Adults, in adult situations, having adult conversations. Fantastic work at developing deep and believable characters too.
As I mentioned in a different conversation, the portion where an older and more mature Luke is up late at night, out on a balcony, pondering the journey so far, really put the hook in me. I immediately connected to the character and how life changes as you age.
I'm not the 15-year-old kid I was when I was sitting in the theater in 1977, and Luke isn't the innocent farm boy he was when I was first introduced to the character back then. Life is very different now - for both of us. So the story speaks to me on a much different level. Really great work on Zahn's part. That, by the way, is the same reason I like Crystal Skull so much. Indiana Jones isn't who he was 25 years ago, and neither am I.
And following the story arc laid out in Empire & Return, no less. Love the trip back to Dagobah and seeing the remnants of Yoda's place all those years later. Honestly, Zahn's work reads like a screenplay.
Truly a missed opportunity when Lucas decided to take his toys and go home so that no one else could play with them. In the right hands (non-Lucas), this would have made an excellent film.
Looking forward to the rest of it, as well as going on to the next one. I owe you guys.
Zahn is the only EU I've ever read. And I read them twice because I liked them so much the first time.
Then I sold them, because I only have so many hours in a day, and most are taken up by my posts here ;-)
Anchorhead said:
In the right hands (non-Lucas), this would have made an excellent HBO mini-series.
Fixed.
“It is only through interaction, through decision and choice, through confrontation, physical or mental, that the Force can grow within you.”
-Kreia, Jedi Master and Sith Lord
Absolutely fantastic!
I've pretty much covered what I like about the story, as well as Zahn's work overall, so I won't repeat it other than to say again how much I dig the fact that it is a very adult novel. No cutesy bullshit, no droid antics, no children's comedy. A serious science fiction story continuing in the vein of the first two films, but with much deeper character development. Mara was particularly well written.
Truthfully, there's no way this wouldn't make a great film. I was visualizing it as though I were actually watching it. I also dug that 3PO is a background character and R2 is just a machine, not some larger than life character who flies (honestly - what the fuck, Lucas?).
Anyway, I finished it up a few hours ago and will be starting on Dark Force Rising just after I hit post reply.
Woo-hoo! I was just thinking about your reading of HttE today as I was doing some back-reading about Mara.
Glad you liked it. There's some really good stuff in DFR about the nature of the Dark Side. Hope you like that too.
IT'S MY TRILOGY, AND I WANT IT NOW!
"[George Lucas] rebooted the franchise in 1997 without telling anyone." -skyjedi2005
"Yeah, well, George says a lot of things..." a young 1997 xhonzi on RASSM
"They're my movies." -George Lucas. 19 people won oscars for their work on Star Wars (1977) and George Lucas wasn't one of them.
I revisited TPM, and have now jumped back into my EU collection.
Jedi Apprentice #1. This is the reason I don't despise the Prequels completely. The single best thing to come out of Ep. I-III. In this first book, 13 year old Obi-Wan is being thrown out of the Jedi Temple. He has reached the age where not being taken as an apprentice can no longer become a Jedi. He is to be a farmer.
Yes it's a kids book. It's better than most if not all the post Zahn adult EU. Still reads well today.
It works, it feels like Star Wars, the characters are well developed, and it only gets better. Book #2 pits Qui-Gon against his former apprentice who turned to the Dark side...these books really get darker as they go along, with surprising plot turns and virtually every bit of Obi-Wan's character is born then scrutinized then developed. Qui-Gon's past, war, turmoil, love interests, siege, genocide, depression, resignation, society, slavery and the list goes on...
And in the end of Book #1, Obi-Wan still has an uncertain future! Pre-OT tension? Yay!
Heck, I'm gonna re-read all 20. Damn well written, fun books. The first one has a different author than the other 19, so it's a bit rougher. 2-20 are exceptional.
10 training lightsabers out of 10 conniving Hutts, Togorian pirates and Yoda schemes.
VADER!? WHERE THE HELL IS MY MOCHA LATTE? -Palpy on a very bad day.
“George didn’t think there was any future in dead Han toys.”-Harrison Ford
YT channel:
https://www.youtube.com/c/DamnFoolIdealisticCrusader
Reading Heir for the first time was like starting all over again. Magical.
VADER!? WHERE THE HELL IS MY MOCHA LATTE? -Palpy on a very bad day.
“George didn’t think there was any future in dead Han toys.”-Harrison Ford
YT channel:
https://www.youtube.com/c/DamnFoolIdealisticCrusader
captainsolo said:
I revisited TPM, and have now jumped back into my EU collection.
Jedi Apprentice #1. This is the reason I don't despise the Prequels completely. The single best thing to come out of Ep. I-III. In this first book, 13 year old Obi-Wan is being thrown out of the Jedi Temple. He has reached the age where not being taken as an apprentice can no longer become a Jedi. He is to be a farmer.
Yes it's a kids book. It's better than most if not all the post Zahn adult EU. Still reads well today.
It works, it feels like Star Wars, the characters are well developed, and it only gets better. Book #2 pits Qui-Gon against his former apprentice who turned to the Dark side...these books really get darker as they go along, with surprising plot turns and virtually every bit of Obi-Wan's character is born then scrutinized then developed. Qui-Gon's past, war, turmoil, love interests, siege, genocide, depression, resignation, society, slavery and the list goes on...
And in the end of Book #1, Obi-Wan still has an uncertain future! Pre-OT tension? Yay!
Heck, I'm gonna re-read all 20. Damn well written, fun books. The first one has a different author than the other 19, so it's a bit rougher. 2-20 are exceptional.
10 training lightsabers out of 10 conniving Hutts, Togorian pirates and Yoda schemes.
I read most of these books back in the day, and really liked them. Most of them were written before the worst prequelisms from AOTC & ROTS were established, which adds to their appeal.
I've been slowly working my way through Dark Force Rising for a couple months now. First time I've read the Thrawn trilogy as well. Read plenty of other EU novels but never got around to this until now. Would probably have been through the whole trilogy by now if I didn't just read it on my phone when I'm out and about. =P
After ten years maybe I should read the Thrawn trilogy again as well...
And in the time of greatest despair, there shall come a savior, and he shall be known as the Son of the Suns.
I just stared longingly at my Thrawn trilogy this weekend. I've got to finish the Stephen King Dark Tower books I promised I would read non-stop and haven't even finished the first one yet.
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captainsolo said:
Reading Heir for the first time was like starting all over again. Magical.
That's it exactly. It had that mystery and that vastness-of-universe that Lucas quickly did away with after the first two films. In the hands of Zahn, Star Wars is a far far away adventure again.
You guys have inspired me to reread The Thrawn Trilogy. My original 1991 hardcover is in rough shape though.
“It is only through interaction, through decision and choice, through confrontation, physical or mental, that the Force can grow within you.”
-Kreia, Jedi Master and Sith Lord
Something else to like about the EU: Vodo-Siosk Baas.
He's such a powerful Jedi Master that he doesn't need a lightsaber. He instead uses a simple stick made impervious through the Force.
Now imagine if Lucas had had respect for Yoda. He might have made him similarily awesome.
DuracellEnergizer said:
Something else to like about the EU: Vodo-Siosk Baas.
He's such a powerful Jedi Master that he doesn't need a lightsaber. He instead uses a simple stick made impervious through the Force.
Now imagine if Lucas had had respect for Yoda. He might have made him similarily awesome.
Personally, I always thought this was a little silly. But I agree that it would have been much better than "jumping monkey" Yoda.
It really is amazing the way the absolutely horrendous ideas that were realized in the prequels make even some of the corny EU seem like a good idea by comparison.
“It is only through interaction, through decision and choice, through confrontation, physical or mental, that the Force can grow within you.”
-Kreia, Jedi Master and Sith Lord
DuracellEnergizer said:
if Lucas had had respect for Yoda. He might have made him similarily awesome.
Yeah, but then he couldn't have the scenes where Yoda pulls out a lightsaber, holds it up making a badass face, and then does the obligatory spinning and twirling that's oh so cool.
Character question for the more versed, if I may.
When did the name Palpatine first show up? I see it's in the Zahn novels and I was wondering if it's another contribution of his, the way Coruscant is. I don't remember it in Return, but I'm not very familiar with that film.
It's not used in any of the films, but I believe the novelization of Star Wars calls him Palpatine.Anchorhead said:
Character question for the more versed, if I may.
When did the name Palpatine first show up? I see it's in the Zahn novels and I was wondering if it's another contribution of his, the way Coruscant is. I don't remember it in Return, but I'm not very familiar with that film.
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