none said:
Part 2 from:
http://www.thehdroom.com/news/Star-Wars-Blu-ray-Up-Close-at-LucasFilm-Part-2-of-3/9427
Some choice quotes:
Matthew also confirmed he found some things while going through the old master like comments in the production lines that he added as dialogue into A New Hope. He stopped short of telling us what those and other new audio and video changes made by Lucas were, so we'll have to all discover them the old fashioned way.
As a poke back at Lucas, Matthew said there were times he'd spent a ton of effort making something like it originally did during the theatrical presentation. Then George would come in and want to change it, and all the work would be for naught.
As with every previous iteration of Star Wars, there's going to be some backlash over the audio changes George has chosen to make – the full extent of which we don't know yet. Matthew loves and prefers the new Blu-ray mixes to the originals, citing the R2 canyon scene as an example. He's hoping we'll feel the same way.
"Well here's a big bag of rock salt" - Patton Oswalt
thehdroom said:
As a poke back at Lucas, Matthew said there were times he'd spent a ton of effort making something like it originally did during the theatrical presentation. Then George would come in and want to change it, and all the work would be for naught.
More George Special-Edition-izing things... :-( I do hope the sound and video will sound and look technically decent; it's the least Lucas could do in giving us his Special Editions...
see you auntie said:
curiosity has me wanting to know what the changes are/what was in "need" of change.
Yes, I'm looking forward to the inevitable comparison threads that will come after it is released! :)
Poor 005!
"Well here's a big bag of rock salt" - Patton Oswalt
I swear, Star Wars is the only time a director's extensive input on a release has ever turned sour.
A Goon in a Gaggle of 'em
^^Hey, I'd be happy even with a written account!
Well, at first... ;)
Besides, I'm sure 005 will be wanting to do some sort of visual comparison at some point. Yes/no, 005?
R2D2 said:
the shield is still up - it's a trap:
http://d2np6futyd7kp6.cloudfront.net/videos/en/ep6/Ep6_Visualizer_Clip_9_MJPG.mp4
...
OK, if I'm reading the last few pages correctly, it seems they have completely recreated the audio tracks, from what they claim is the original stuff piece by piece (sounds insane to me, as the room for error is massive), and where they couldn't find it, they've "improvised".
I've listened to this clip about 10 times, and although I'm at work and so cannot compare to GOUT or older true sources, something sounds wrong, when Lando comes from saying "...if we're coming" <gap> "break off the attack...".
What I've marked as <gap>.....I don't know...just doesn't seem right to me.
According to the interviews with Wood this applies for Ep4 only.
"Well here's a big bag of rock salt" - Patton Oswalt
I have a bad feeling about this...
VADER!? WHERE THE HELL IS MY MOCHA LATTE? -Palpy on a very bad day.
“George didn’t think there was any future in dead Han toys.”-Harrison Ford
YT channel:
https://www.youtube.com/c/DamnFoolIdealisticCrusader
I'm going as far as to say that since 2004 and the botched audio issues with A New Hope, and now with confirmation of added dialogue and other changes, Matthew Wood comes across as a complete douche bag who's trying to put as much of his imprint on SW as possible.
I can't remember why Burtt and Lucas parted ways, but this Wood character just seems to lack integrity. He could be following Lucas' orders, but reading those quotes he sounds like an idiot who's more excited about making his own changes to SW and taking credit for them rather than doing what's best for the movies, which is TO NOT FUCK WITH THEM.
Christ, what the hell has happened to Star Wars? Thank heaven for bittorrent - may the originals live on.
“Grow up. These are my Disney's movies, not yours.”
Well some of the clips look pretty good, others look pretty bad :-( At least the Tantive IV corridors appear white
RATLSNAKE said:
OK, if I'm reading the last few pages correctly, it seems they have completely recreated the audio tracks, from what they claim is the original stuff piece by piece (sounds insane to me, as the room for error is massive), and where they couldn't find it, they've "improvised".
...
I have to agree with your fears. The more they touch (recreate), the more damage will be done, the more chances - it will go away from original.
According to 2004 DVD production Matthew Wood was already co-supervising the audio together with Ben Burtt. If he knows the trilogy that good, and instinctly feels, if something is not right, why the hell was the fanfare missing on the OT DVDs? Why on the english track only?
hen_hairy did an intense study on comparing the 2004 remix with the original 70mm and other mixes and with the help of arguments showed how weak the 2004 remix was done by who? Oh yes, Ben Burtt and Matthew Wood, the two guys, responsible for the 2011 remix. So what shall we expect?
Imagine you have passed some responsability to your successor, like Matthew Wood is the successor of Ben Burtt. How much effort would you put in if you were Ben Burtt, invited to come in for a short amount of time and give your opinion? He didn't left the company without a reason, it was enough Star Wars for him, no real challenges at Lucasfilm. It's not his mix anymore, it's Matthew Wood mix. It's like at work, once you leave a company and were invited after a few years to give your opinion on this and that. How much would you really care? It's not your baby anymore, you have passed this over. You wouldn't go in and fight on every detail.
I have the fear, that on moments.starwars.com we are seeing what will be on the blu-rays, video and audio wise. The lucasfilm meeting on friday prooved not enough facts to think otherwise. One fixed lightsaber shot, one unrelevant wampa arm shot, one tpm pic with larger frame. That is no proove of getting the colors right throughout the whole trilogy. The fixed lightsaber shot prooves that this scene got some manual fix. That fix is no result of a general color-correction of the trilogy, but by manual redrawing/recoloring only the lightsaber parts on each frame. So no indication nor proof of general color correction!
Dianoga [Ep4] looks really full of video noise:
http://d2np6futyd7kp6.cloudfront.net/images/1000px/ep4/EP4_ILM_138.jpg
Another example of visible Matte lines and lots of video noise:
http://d2np6futyd7kp6.cloudfront.net/images/1000px/ep4/EP4_ILM_117.jpg
Another example of visible Matte lines:
http://d2np6futyd7kp6.cloudfront.net/images/1000px/ep4/EP4_ILM_2.jpg
This pic from speeder bike chase [Ep6] looks funny:
http://d2np6futyd7kp6.cloudfront.net/images/1000px/ep6/EP6_ILM_118.jpg
R2D2 said:
Dianoga [Ep4] looks really full of video noise:
http://d2np6futyd7kp6.cloudfront.net/images/1000px/ep4/EP4_ILM_138.jpgAnother example of visible Matte lines and lots of video noise:
http://d2np6futyd7kp6.cloudfront.net/images/1000px/ep4/EP4_ILM_117.jpgAnother example of visible Matte lines:
http://d2np6futyd7kp6.cloudfront.net/images/1000px/ep4/EP4_ILM_2.jpgThis pic from speeder bike chase [Ep6] looks funny:
http://d2np6futyd7kp6.cloudfront.net/images/1000px/ep6/EP6_ILM_118.jpg
Simple solution for the visible matte lines: Dont have the brightness turned up so high on your TV!
Or could use the THX optimisers, they tell you to adjust your brightness just below the visible matte line level (or so I would assume that Lucas set it up that way).
Why complain about the matte lines anyway? Arent you wanting the video to look as close to the original product as possible? Removing the matte lines will mean more tinkering, which everyone is complaing about. Im so confused by the indecision about fixing stuff and leaving it the way it was.
LegendaryPOO said:
Why complain about the matte lines anyway? Arent you wanting the video to look as close to the original product as possible? Removing the matte lines will mean more tinkering, which everyone is complaing about. Im so confused by the indecision about fixing stuff and leaving it the way it was.
This is a central tension around here. The best way of explaining it, as near as I can figure, is to say that there are two main thoughts:
1. The Originals need to be released in high-quality scans worthy of the historically important and really great films that they are.
2. If you're going to do a Special Edition, which is pretty understandable given the modern viewing audience and wanting things to be a little more consistent across all 6 movies, at least do a good and thorough job.
Folks around here think Lucas has done neither. Not everyone agrees with #2, but many do. They're not mutually exclusive goals, either, because he could certainly release both.
R2D2 said:
Another example of visible Matte lines and lots of video noise:
http://d2np6futyd7kp6.cloudfront.net/images/1000px/ep4/EP4_ILM_117.jpgAnother example of visible Matte lines:
http://d2np6futyd7kp6.cloudfront.net/images/1000px/ep4/EP4_ILM_2.jpg
It's "garbage mattes", matte lines are something else. Still, I'm surprised to see that the SE-Stardestroyer actually have a garbage matte, the opening was after all re-composited for the 1997 Special Edition release. You would think digital compositing would take care of such problems? Even though this sample pic is unnaturally bright and you were never supposed to see it, I never thought it actually existed for this shot, weird.
We want you to be aware that we have no plans—now or in the future—to restore the earlier versions.
Sincerely, Lynne Hale publicity@lucasfilm.com
LegendaryPOO said:
R2D2 said:
Dianoga [Ep4] looks really full of video noise:
http://d2np6futyd7kp6.cloudfront.net/images/1000px/ep4/EP4_ILM_138.jpgAnother example of visible Matte lines and lots of video noise:
http://d2np6futyd7kp6.cloudfront.net/images/1000px/ep4/EP4_ILM_117.jpgAnother example of visible Matte lines:
http://d2np6futyd7kp6.cloudfront.net/images/1000px/ep4/EP4_ILM_2.jpgThis pic from speeder bike chase [Ep6] looks funny:
http://d2np6futyd7kp6.cloudfront.net/images/1000px/ep6/EP6_ILM_118.jpgSimple solution for the visible matte lines: Dont have the brightness turned up so high on your TV!
Or could use the THX optimisers, they tell you to adjust your brightness just below the visible matte line level (or so I would assume that Lucas set it up that way).
Why complain about the matte lines anyway? Arent you wanting the video to look as close to the original product as possible? Removing the matte lines will mean more tinkering, which everyone is complaing about. Im so confused by the indecision about fixing stuff and leaving it the way it was.
If they are properly removed from the frame, they are invisible, regardless of my brightness or contrast settings. Don't you see them on your display?
THX is not to be trusted, wasn't the 2004 OT DVDs - which is official considered to be full of technical flaws - THX certified?
Lucasfilm [Dennis Muren] can't say, they removed the matte lines, if they in fact didn't. It's false advertising.
We are discussing here the product quality of the upcoming blu-ray. It has nothing to do with the UOT. If they advertise with removed matte lines than that is what I am expecting from such a product. Same goes with color-correction, correct lightsaber colors,...
It's not about whether I like or dislike the pictures I posted. The matte lines are there, that's a fact, video noise is there as well.
msycamore said:
R2D2 said:
Another example of visible Matte lines and lots of video noise:
http://d2np6futyd7kp6.cloudfront.net/images/1000px/ep4/EP4_ILM_117.jpgAnother example of visible Matte lines:
http://d2np6futyd7kp6.cloudfront.net/images/1000px/ep4/EP4_ILM_2.jpgIt's "garbage mattes", matte lines are something else. Still, I'm surprised to see that the SE-Stardestroyer actually have a garbage matte, the opening was after all re-composited for the 1997 Special Edition release. You would think digital compositing would take care of such problems? Even though this sample pic is unnaturally bright and you were never supposed to see it, I never thought it actually existed for this shot, weird.
Thanks for helping. English is not my first language.
Btw - the other featured languages of moments.starwars.com sometimes show slightly different video sequences than the EN ones.
This DE [german] video is longer than it's EN counterpart:
http://d2np6futyd7kp6.cloudfront.net/videos/de/ep5/Ep5_Visualizer_Clip_1__MJPG.mp4
http://d2np6futyd7kp6.cloudfront.net/videos/en/ep5/Ep5_Visualizer_Clip_1__MJPG.mp4
I'd like to, but I'm going to depend on the others in the thread to help find and capture them as (1) I'm still not sure I'm going to own the Blu-rays and (2) have no way of capturing Blu-rays. In short, with some help, the comparisons will have every visual change of every release of the original trilogy.Ripplin said:
^^Hey, I'd be happy even with a written account!
Well, at first... ;)
Besides, I'm sure 005 will be wanting to do some sort of visual comparison at some point. Yes/no, 005?
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So they made an attempt to fix the clashing sabers but Vader's saber seconds before is still solid pink by the looks of things.
With all this talk about the colour timing changed, has it been confirmed that they are actually talking about the Original trilogy and not the PT? Because almost every screenshot that is now available from the OT has the same colouring as the 2004 versions, yet the PT has had some colour timing changes. TPM of course, but just look at the Kamino shots. The colour timing here has been altered a lot. The battle between Obi-Wan & Jango outside is now green, whereas before it was more blue. The colour timing here too has changed the colour of Obi_wan's lightsabre to cyan.
George does love his cyan ;)
georgec said:
I'm going as far as to say that since 2004 and the botched audio issues with A New Hope, and now with confirmation of added dialogue and other changes, Matthew Wood comes across as a complete douche bag who's trying to put as much of his imprint on SW as possible.
Christ, what the hell has happened to Star Wars? Thank heaven for bittorrent - may the originals live on.
I agree. Dude seems overly excited that he's been able to recreate the almighty Star Wars. Plus he makes mention of the fact that he and Anthony Daniels are the only people in all 6 films. I'm not the biggest Daniels fan out there, but no one should put themselves on the same level as him where Star Wars importance is concerned. Like or dislike, Daniels has been on board since the beginning and that commands some respect.
adywan said:
adywan said: George does love his cyan ;)
Yeah, you see the exact same shift from blue to cyan that is shown in that picture in almost every film that has its color timing changed. It's really irritating.
georgec said:
I'm going as far as to say that since 2004 and the botched audio issues with A New Hope, and now with confirmation of added dialogue and other changes, Matthew Wood comes across as a complete douche bag who's trying to put as much of his imprint on SW as possible.
...he sounds like an idiot who's more excited about making his own changes to SW and taking credit for them rather than doing what's best for the movies,
The more I read the interview, the more I saw that too. I get the impression that at LFL, the movies are seen as a sort of sandbox that everyone gets to play in once every few years. What a warped view of classic cinema.
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