CP3S said:

twooffour said:

Pretty sure it was a cop-out at the last writing minute.

And now a flash-sideways to the pleasant conversation we could be having.

I agree. Not only was it a cop-out, but I think it was also a product of a show written by numerous writers, a tight writing schedule, and a limited number of episodes to wrap everything up in.

I don't think I've missed anything. That you can't change the past, that was Faraday's "theory".
It was first doubted by Hurley in his (timeless) nerd discussion with the Asian dude, when he brought up some inconsistency concerning young Ben.
Then Faraday started doubting it when trying to warn young Charlotte, so basically, no one actually ever said that you can't change the past.

But Faraday wasn't able to save Charlotte, and we found out that he was the scary man Charlotte remembered talking to and being freak out by in her childhood, indicting that everything that happened had always happened.

I guess in that case, the reason for the bomb not going off could be more accurately put as, it didn't go off because it never went off.

Needless to say, there are only two possibilities a "you can't change the past with time travel" scenario can make sense:
-Fate - some kinda intelligent force interfering and preventing things from happening.
-Determinism - free will is a complete illusion, everything is determined.

Those are definitely themes the show juggled around a lot.

I think the show often came out in support of the Determinism through most of its existence, by then in the last season switched it all over to Jacob (essentially playing the role of "fate") being the force that ensured everything happened as it was suppose to.

So I'm guessing it's the first one here, with Jacob and all, I just find it really lame.
Obviously, if the cause is a supernatural force, Faraday can't possible have been "right" about his theory that was based on scientific ground ;)
So I think the plot's a huge mess :D

I think it is lame too. I actually think, thanks to the many different writers of the show, a lot of different things are going on at different times.

I felt Faraday's theories were the most intriguing and fun answers the show ever explored (a big part of what made seasons 4 and 5 as good as they were). The "wizard did it" stuff with Jacob was a massive part of my disappointment in season 6.

I agree. Not only was it a cop-out, but I think it was also a product of a show written by numerous writers, a tight writing schedule, and a limited number of episodes to wrap everything up in.

I thought it was only the two of them responsible for the general outline?

But Faraday wasn't able to save Charlotte, and we found out that he was the scary man Charlotte remembered talking to and being freak out by in her childhood, indicting that everything that happened had always happened.

Ok, but Ben didn't remember meeting Sayid:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_dH4xOFp9w#t=150

But hey... AMNESIA! Like in every Smallville episode where they need to get away some plot point.
I guess the real answer is, the writers were just fucking with us, and were probably keen on using (and spoofing) some time-travel tropes more than anything else.

I guess in that case, the reason for the bomb not going off could be more accurately put as, it didn't go off because it never went off.

Guess that's all one could get out of the plot, anyway :)
It's a pity the characters' savviness never amounted to anything more :(

I think the show often came out in support of the Determinism through most of its existence, by then in the last season switched it all over to Jacob (essentially playing the role of "fate") being the force that ensured everything happened as it was suppose to.

I don't remember it quite well.
Synchronicity certainly came up a lot, but I'm not sure about determinism.

When Faraday introduced time-travel, it sure was deterministic (the dead doctor floating in the sea) - but when earlier Desmond started seeing into the future, it wasn't.
He saw Charlie's death, and could prevent it by intervening. It was ultimately futile, because "the nature" "wanted him dead" like in Final Destination, but he could still influence events - just being the weaker agent at the end.

So I guess it's just whatever the plot needs it to be - like in Star Trek. One episode it's deterministic, the other it's parallel universes, in the next they can change the past ;)

I think it is lame too. I actually think, thanks to the many different writers of the show, a lot of different things are going on at different times.

I felt Faraday's theories were the most intriguing and fun answers the show ever explored (a big part of what made seasons 4 and 5 as good as they were). The "wizard did it" stuff with Jacob was a massive part of my disappointment in season 6.

This :D