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What do you LIKE about the EU? — Page 14

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greenpenguino said:

Anchorhead said:

Tyrphanax said:

Palpatine preferred quantity over quality (which is why TIE fighters don't have shields as it was cheaper to just replace a TIE than to keep one running apparently).

That's something I find very interesting about the EU in general - the different ideas people have for things.  It's back to the imagination part of the equation.  Plus you can take or leave whatever you want.  I haven't seen the last two films, so I don't know where that shield explanation comes from (film or EU novel).

In Death Star, the TIEs don't have shield generators, hyper-drives, or emergency life support systems because those all add unnecessary weight to the craft.

Wait. What??

The empire is worried about the tie fighters having unnecessary weight.... In space?????

It's space where sound travels, so maybe weight works too. =P

Keep Circulating the Tapes.

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Weight would still be an issue when they take off.

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Yeah, also very much a factor in inter-atmosphere flights/dogfights.

Keep Circulating the Tapes.

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Vehicle mass would be an issue in a gravity environment, as well as zero G.   Here are the two pages of Death Star addressing it.

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The term "weight" is misused, as weight, by definition, is how hard gravity pulls on something.  If I were on the moon, I would weigh less than here on earth.  However, MASS is clearly positively correlated to weight, and that is where the common confusion comes from.  No matter where I stand, on earth, on the moon, or in zero-G, my mass remains the same.  A ship with greater mass takes more energy to move a larger object than a smaller, and it would take more energy to overcome inertia and redirect motion.  Thus, a smaller, lower mass ship would accelerate faster and be more maneuverable.

Incidently in a zero-G vacuum, there should be no speed limit, except those brought on by relativity as you approach the speed of light (of course in Star Wars, hyperspace allows for faster than light travel, so I won't address that aspect).  All ships could ultimately go equally fast, no matter how large they are or how powerful their engines.  What makes a difference is their acceleration.  Lower mass and more powerful engines would result in reaching your desired speed faster, but any ship that kept at it would not be hindered with a top speed.

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darth_ender said:

The term "weight" is misused, as weight, by definition, is how hard gravity pulls on something. 

That's all me, man.  I read mass, understand mass, but then used the word weight in my post. 

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No worries.  As I said, common mistake, one that I make all the time.

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Zeltrons. Mmmmmmmmmmmmm.

“It is only through interaction, through decision and choice, through confrontation, physical or mental, that the Force can grow within you.”
-Kreia, Jedi Master and Sith Lord

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I had to jump ship.  I made it through 15 chapters before I had to say goodbye to the Prequel references.  I was fine for a few chapters with an occasional name-check, but after a mention of Grievus, Mustafar, a couple of mentions of Gunguns, and a few other things I know are Prequel, I was quickly losing interest.

The final straw was last night, near the end of chapter 15.  When one of the main characters gets a promotion to work on the Death Star while it's being constructed, he asks his commander - "No poodoo, sir?". 

I reread the line, stopped, pondered whether or not to continue with a book I was already losing interest in, removed my book marker, closed the book, got out of bed, walked into the other room, and pulled Heir To The Empire off of the shelf. Two chapters in, It's much more what I was looking for.  It's also written with a little more serious feel.  

Regarding the prequel references;  My issue is two-fold.

1.  The novel had a feeling of everything must be viewed from a Prequel point of view.  The references seemed forced and were completely unrelated to the story.  Either by direction from Lucas, who does get peripherally involved with EU - or - maybe Reeves and Perry are just big fans of the Prequels and wanted both sets of films to be one big happy family.  The cynic in me says marketing (Lucas).  Maybe it was both.

2. I'm a linear guy.  Events that took place in 1977 came before events that took place in 2000 - even in a film franchise.  Having a prequel story is fine, but I won't ever rearrange my feeling of actual time to accommodate it.  For me, the story of the construction of the Death Star should be told from the 1977 point of view.  There is plenty of story there without having to pander to the prequel fan base or serving the franchise marketing machine.

While not a deal-breaker, I was also wearing out on the silly references. Just because it takes place in another universe, not every single thing has to reflect that.  It has a few too many instances of metaphors that mean nothing to the reader, which to me negates the point of even having a metaphoric reference in the first place.  "The commander knew so & so was slower than an ovalangk during murjonen season" or "Val woke up hungry for some esssontan meat and gghrewq eggs".  Honest to God, it was like reading a damn Ikea catalog.  Please.

 

I should have listened to my dog.  True story; Just after I bought the book and before I started reading it, he pulled it out of my bag while I was at work one day and chewed a big chunk out of a corner of the back, tore up the last 20 pages or so, messed up the spine, and tore the cover.  I was just going to struggle with that last chapter if I got that far.  Turns out it won't be an issue.

 

 

 

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What if you had read the book in 1978 not knowing that it had been written in the future?

You wouldn't know what a Gungan is, all those references would be to unknowns.

You would take "Poodoo" just to be an in universe expletive like "Frak", "Frell", "Sback" and "Belgium".

Would you have stopped reading the book when you had if you had "Unlearned what you have learned"?

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Bingowings said:

What if you had read the book in 1978.........Gungan......all those references........."Poodoo" .............."Unlearned what you have learned"

 

 

Besides - Gary Kurtz and Marcia wouldn't have let George get away with such shitty ideas in the 70s, nor would Alan Dean Foster have ghost-written that shit for him.

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Actually, I wasn't aware of that.
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 (Edited)

;-)

 

I have to say, sometimes I'm surprised at just how far out of the loop I've fallen.

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It did mean "fodder" in ROTJ and presumably something else in TPM (not unless the subtitle writer for ROTJ was a bit of a prude).

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 (Edited)

Yes, the odd change in definition to poodoo has always annoyed me.  But I know I've already written it out here somewhere.

Too bad the Death Star book didn't turn out for you, Anchorhead.  I had stayed away from it since I knew it was riddled with PTisms... sad to find out just how true that was.

I think/hope you'll enjoy Zahn's EU.  As I've also said elsewhere, he (and a young Tom Veitch) had some very specific ideas about the clone wars that we see small glimpses of... but never really get the full scoop.  I wish I could trap him in a room somewhere and get his notes, because I think he probably thought it through much more than anyone who actually worked on the prequels.

IT'S MY TRILOGY, AND I WANT IT NOW!

"[George Lucas] rebooted the franchise in 1997 without telling anyone." -skyjedi2005

"Yeah, well, George says a lot of things..." a young 1997 xhonzi on RASSM

"They're my movies." -George Lucas. 19 people won oscars for their work on Star Wars (1977) and George Lucas wasn't one of them.

Rewrite the Prequels!

 

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Yeah, Anchorhead should definitely pick up some of the Tales of the Old Republic stuff. Tom Veitch understood Star Wars.

I quite enjoyed the first Crimson Empire series as well.

“It is only through interaction, through decision and choice, through confrontation, physical or mental, that the Force can grow within you.”
-Kreia, Jedi Master and Sith Lord

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theprequelsrule said:

Yeah, Anchorhead should definitely pick up some of the Tales of the Old Republic stuff. Tom Veitch understood Star Wars.

I quite enjoyed the first Crimson Empire series as well.

Surely you mean Tales of the Jedi? http://www.comicvine.com/star-wars-tales-of-the-jedi/49-28243/

And perhaps Dark Empire? http://www.comicvine.com/star-wars-dark-empire/49-22516/

IT'S MY TRILOGY, AND I WANT IT NOW!

"[George Lucas] rebooted the franchise in 1997 without telling anyone." -skyjedi2005

"Yeah, well, George says a lot of things..." a young 1997 xhonzi on RASSM

"They're my movies." -George Lucas. 19 people won oscars for their work on Star Wars (1977) and George Lucas wasn't one of them.

Rewrite the Prequels!

 

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xhonzi said:

Yes, the odd change in definition to poodoo has always annoyed me.  But I know I've already written it out here somewhere.

I was going to mention this, I definitely recall you complaining about it before (not without justification, I should add).

If it makes you feel any better, in my world "poodoo" is now translated as "hug," at least when Sebulba says it.

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 (Edited)

I'll be honest, I despise Dark Empire on a number of levels.  Legions of dark force users and hidden good Jedi when it is stated that Vader is the last of the "Jedi religion" and the Emperor and his powers are kept vaulted up in his secret chambers.  Coruscant changing hands so casually between the New Republic and the Empire on the verge of defeat.  I mean, I thought Grand Admiral Thrawn brought them back from the brink, and now that he's gone they are even more powerful with bigger ships and new superweapons and the capacity to conquer the capital in spite of no competent military commanders leading their forces and largely devoid of resources.  And what the heck is up with steam-based space technology?  This is not the steampunk genre.  Luke falls to the dark side!  Yoda made it clear that "once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny..."  Vader/Anakin was supposed to be the unbelievably remarkable exception.  And the capital crime is the perpetual resurrection of the Emperor!  Whose clever idea was it to actually have him come back again and again and again?  It's like all those cliched comics and TV episodes where the bad guy falls to his doom, but we don't see the body.  Is he really dead?!?  Of course not!  Tune in next week!  And while it might be and interesting visual experience, paying closer attention to the plot reveals that there is nothing interesting to it...if it were written as a novel, it couldn't get more than 100 pages and would not be gripping in the slightest.

That being said, and being a fan of some EU, which often alludes to Dark Empire, I wish someone would novelize it, change the story, beef it up, add twists and turns, and basically retcon half the ideas.  I would be required to allow many faults to remain, but at least when I read references in other books, they would be to a better story than the one we got.  I really can't tell you how disappointed I am with how influential Dark Empire has been.

EDIT: Fixed misnaming of Dark Empire as Shadows of the Empire:{

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darth_ender said:

I'll be honest, I despise Shadows of the Empire on a number of levels. 

Perhaps you mean Dark Empire?

IT'S MY TRILOGY, AND I WANT IT NOW!

"[George Lucas] rebooted the franchise in 1997 without telling anyone." -skyjedi2005

"Yeah, well, George says a lot of things..." a young 1997 xhonzi on RASSM

"They're my movies." -George Lucas. 19 people won oscars for their work on Star Wars (1977) and George Lucas wasn't one of them.

Rewrite the Prequels!

 

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xhonzi said:

I think/hope you'll enjoy Zahn's EU.

So far, I'm digging it.  Some of that may be the real life passage of time as I catch up with my heroes all these years later. 

It's the very same reason I really like the fourth Indiana Jones movie.  Indy isn't the same 40-year-old rogue we met in Raiders - and I'm not the same 18-year-old high school kid I was back then.

In Heir, Luke isn't the same innocent farm boy he was in 1977 - and I'm not the innocent 15-year-old kid I was back then.

I particularly enjoyed the chapter where Luke is up in the middle of the night, unable to sleep, sitting outside looking out at the city, and pondering the journey & the future.  Something that I do regularly myself. That chapter set the hook for me.

Just like Indy in Kingdom, Luke is taxed with a much heavier life at this point in the story.  Because the very same thing is true for me in the real world, the story connects with me on a level that it can't for young people.  You can't guess the passage of time, nor can you pretend it.  In fact, you can't even really imagine it properly.  You have to actually pass through it to feel it.

Zahn's style comes across as much deeper and more serious. Which is what I was looking for.

 

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xhonzi said:

darth_ender said:

I'll be honest, I despise Shadows of the Empire on a number of levels. 

Perhaps you mean Dark Empire?

Oops.  Fixed!