What do you LIKE about the Prequels? — Page 3

Well, I hate drawn out debates.  I respect all your opinions, but after this post, I will cease all efforts, and you can tear my thoughts to shreds.  I will still like you all afterwards.  Let me reiterate that the PT is inferior in numerous regards.  It does not mesh well with the OT.  It has plot holes, unnecessary subplots, unnecessary characters, poor dialogue, a lot of slapstick, poor acting from great actors, overused CGI, etc.  That being said, if I walked into TPM in 1999 with the OT never having existed prior, I would have thought that Jar Jar was obnoxious, and that certain things were not to my liking, but I still would probably purchase the film when it came out on video.  I did that with Spider-man 1, though I had my problems with it as well, particularly the silly Green Goblin.  I would not expect TPM to be a monumental epic.  I would simply consider it a summer action flick in the sci-fi genre.  Say we get through Eps I-III.  I would have enjoyed them enough to buy the trilogy.  20 years later, Ep IV comes out.  I would be impressed with the jump and the maturity of the beginning of a new trilogy.  As Ep V and VI come out, I'd grow in amazement and forever see the PT as inferior.  But I would still enjoy them for what they were.  The biggest difference is that my expectations would have been different.  I have my problems with the PT, but I can still appreciate them, not for what GL hoped them to be, but for what they are to me: cheesy action films with a plot that relates to the far superior OT.

I don't smoke, but I will take a blindfold.

TV's Frink said:

We stopped reading.

:p

 That's nice.  Then don't comment.

I know.  I think I word things a little strongly, and I hope I haven't offended him.  I actually like reading what he says too.  He said some encouraging words to me about editing (which I doubt I'll ever have time to commit to, but he suggested I start making a little time).  But as I've already stated, we get on the Internet, and we become remarkably bold.  I hope I haven't come off as too antagonistic either.  I just like to get into debates, and my wording may be a tad sharp for some.  Thanks for the welcoming words, xhonzi.  I hope I haven't scared anyone off :p

darth_ender said:

TV's Frink said:

We stopped reading.

:p

 That's nice.  Then don't comment.

It was just a joke, hence the :p  I probably should have used a ;-)

And no offense taken. :-)

Mrebo said:

darth_ender said:

You know, I suspect that if these movies came out in sequential order rather than OT, then PT, people would see them as inferior but still decent films.

If Star Wars had no history and started with Episode I in the year 1999, then sure that's possible. I'm not thoroughly convinced, but it is a reasonable proposition. The excessive slapstick humor, terrible love scenes, poor acting, and intrusive CGI would be hallmarks of the Star Wars franchise. There would be critics of the PT, as there are of any movies, but it wouldn't be based on precise notions of what it could have been (like if we had alternative visions of the Star Wars universe from other films).

The passion on this board amuses me.

-_- Funny how? I mean, funny like I'm a clown? I amuse you? I make you laugh?

I certainly don't like the PT nearly as much, but I can still watch and enjoy them.  In my mind, I can incorporate them into my personal Star Wars canon or disregard them, depending on my mood.

I don't completely fault people for this view. Especially younger people. I fault George Lucas for it :(

After seeing Avatar, my younger cousin who was a huge Star Wars fan announced that he thinks Avatar is even better than Star Wars. Can't really blame him seeing as he grew up with the PT.

Before you feel frustrated by yet another challenging reply, I'm saying you do have a point, but I think it's an unfortunate one. I certainly don't feel animosity toward you. What upsets so many is that we had hopes of what the PT could have been and those hopes are forever dashed. Just as if this had been ESB (still makes me jump a little xD). And some of us are honestly critical of the PT in its own right and can't enjoy it. Just as I appreciate the Holiday Special in its own right by not watching it.

And this is all relevant to liking elements of the prequels since many of us habitually contrast every element with the OT. My point is that this is justified!

As for what I liked: the water planet of Kamino and the battle between Jango and Obi Wan. I thought Watto was a good character. I liked Zam Wesell. I like the concept of a crisis leading up to a military creation act.

 Not at all frustrated by what you add.  I agree, I wish they were better, but those hopes, as you said, are forever dashed.  But I still like them for what they are instead of hating them for what they could have been.  Thanks for the nice words.

I think I caused a ruckus by simply prefacing my comments on the Jedi Order with a justification.  You are correct, and I agree, that everyone else's opinion is justified.  I just tend to get a little strong when people say, "You're wrong, this is how it is," without justifying their view.  But I think we all got a fun little debate out of it.  Hope you all agree.

TV's Frink said:

darth_ender said:

TV's Frink said:

We stopped reading.

:p

 That's nice.  Then don't comment.

It was just a joke, hence the :p

 I know.  My response was a joke as well.  See the following comment with its accompanying :p, as "anyone" was an allusion to you.

darth_ender said:

I know.  I think I word things a little strongly, and I hope I haven't offended him [TV's Frink].  I actually like reading what he says too.  He said some encouraging words to me about editing (which I doubt I'll ever have time to commit to, but he suggested I start making a little time).  But as I've already stated, we get on the Internet, and we become remarkably bold.  I hope I haven't come off as too antagonistic either.  I just like to get into debates, and my wording may be a tad sharp for some.  Thanks for the welcoming words, xhonzi.  I hope I haven't scared anyone off :p

Oh, you edited your post.  I'm glad I hadn't offended you.  I thought maybe I had, and wanted to assure it wasn't my intention.

Not intending to stereotype.  I just notice that people's feelings become much stronger when online due to the accompanying anonymity.  Believe me, I have my passions.  But if you notice, people are generally more polite in person than on the Internet.  To me, that seems to be because you can get away with it more.  Instead of having to back up your statements or use a polite tone, you simply say, "That's the way it is," and you feel proud of your tough stance and little guilt over who might be offended.  It's not just here, and I admit to falling into this tendency on a number of occasions.  It's merely a sociological observation, and not a condemnation of a group of Star Wars fans, a group to which I proudly belong.

darth_ender said:

Not intending to stereotype.  I just notice that people's feelings become much stronger when online due to the accompanying anonymity.  Believe me, I have my passions.  But if you notice, people are generally more polite in person than on the Internet.  To me, that seems to be because you can get away with it more.  Instead of having to back up your statements or use a polite tone, you simply say, "That's the way it is," and you feel proud of your tough stance and little guilt over who might be offended.  It's not just here, and I admit to falling into this tendency on a number of occasions.  It's merely a sociological observation, and not a condemnation of a group of Star Wars fans, a group to which I proudly belong.

Well, part of the reason there's "little guilt" about offending somebody, is that you don't offend anybody ;)
Not in the amount you can in real life, at least.

Many people like to notice that people behave more, well, "bluntly", in the internet, but the question is, *should* we behave the same as in real life?
I say, no. Thanks to anonymity, and the emotional barrier that is the computer screen, you don't have to fear the same humiliation from voicing a risky sentiment, and you don't get your feelings butthurt anywhere as easily as in real life. So we're doing quite alright ;)

Tyrphanax, you said everything far more eloquently than I could have.  Very good, and I'm glad I read this, as you broadened the thought I already had swimming in my head.  The only thing I might add is that there is a futility in trying to suppress evil.  Evil will spring up in the sterile emotionless Old Jedi Order or in the passionate New Jedi Order (as it does in the EU).  It can't be stopped.  I think the big moral is that one can never be complacent or apathetic.  One must always be wary, as the strength you feel you may have will ultimately be your undoing.  Thanks for quoting your thought here, as I can honestly say it helps me appreciate the connection between the trilogies better.

twooffour said:

darth_ender said:

Not intending to stereotype.  I just notice that people's feelings become much stronger when online due to the accompanying anonymity.  Believe me, I have my passions.  But if you notice, people are generally more polite in person than on the Internet.  To me, that seems to be because you can get away with it more.  Instead of having to back up your statements or use a polite tone, you simply say, "That's the way it is," and you feel proud of your tough stance and little guilt over who might be offended.  It's not just here, and I admit to falling into this tendency on a number of occasions.  It's merely a sociological observation, and not a condemnation of a group of Star Wars fans, a group to which I proudly belong.

Well, part of the reason there's "little guilt" about offending somebody, is that you don't offend anybody ;)
Not in the amount you can in real life, at least.

Many people like to notice that people behave more, well, "bluntly", in the internet, but the question is, *should* we behave the same as in real life?
I say, no. Thanks to anonymity, and the emotional barrier that is the computer screen, you don't have to fear the same humiliation from voicing a risky sentiment, and you don't get your feelings butthurt anywhere as easily as in real life. So we're doing quite alright ;)

This post, and the fact that I disagree with almost all of it, does not surprise me in the least.

Twooffour, we can get away with more, and I would likely not be so blunt in reality were I to address others here personally.  But I think it gets to a point of being unreasonable all too often, and that was my original intent.  Let me give a hypothetical dialogue.

-I like the PT because of such and such.

-PT sux!!!!!!! lol rofl byob rsvp tgif tnt

-Umm...I like it.

-UR stupid!!! sol omg laser bff ttfn

Here I exaggerate and am not accusing anyone of such silliness (before I tangentially offend anyone again).  I'm just adding some humor.  But my point is that I get annoyed when I try to provide reasons for liking something and then get shut down in five words or less simply because someone does not like it.  I prefer reason to bumper sticker slogans.  That is my reason for causing this whole debate, and that is why I'm always so long-winded.

By the way, bet you all didn't know that laser is an acronym.  It stands for Light Amplification by the Stimulated Emission of Radiation.  Now go win at Trivial Pursuit :)

darth_ender said:

By the way, bet you all didn't know that laser is an acronym.  It stands for Light Amplification by the Stimulated Emission of Radiation.  Now go win at Trivial Pursuit :)

Oh man, I thought I was obvious...

Not to strain the upper limit for off-topic posts for this thread (too much), but seriously, I don't understand how anyone can honestly, and rationally disagree with ANY of that.

It's just common fucking sense.
Being insulted or threatened on the internet, while maybe serious for psychologically vulnerable people, is nowhere close to a comparable situation in real life, where you'd need both muscles and strong enough personality in order to brush that off.
Having someone openly, and bluntly disregard you as a person, or disrespect your opinion, religion or whatever, is way more tolerable on the web, than in real life.
Being humiliated, or cornered, by doing something wrong, or saying something stupid, or saying something potentially correct but too hard (for you) to back up at the spot, can be quite an issue in real life, but is almost none on the internet.

There is no immediacy of reaction and response on the internet (not even in a chatroom), where a wrong expression can already be read as a sign of weakness, or defeat, no way for someone to use their "imposing personality" in order to influence the course of a conversation, no sensation of being "exposed" and having to act adequately in real time, and always time to digest and reconsider.

Not to say that anonymous internet communication doesn't show very comparable patterns to real-life behavior, as well as emotions accompanying it, but it's all bleaker and less powerful.



To give you an example (and get back to the topic), if I met a prequel defender in real life, I probably wouldn't care much that he is one, except maybe a little bit for the few minutes, and would only get involved in some kind of "passionate" discussion if we really knew each other very well, and spent some time talking about stupid bullshit at a coffee.
Because there's nothing more pathetic than two people who don't know each other starting to bash in each others' skulls because of some stupid movie (in real life).

I also don't start arguments about the immorality of the Christian doctrine if I get invited to some liturgy by friends. I may listen to the stupid-ass sermon and be murdering sweet, innocent puppies in my head, but a lot of social conditions will have to be met before I start arguing at all - and some more for this argument to get to an actually honest, and blunt level.

On the internet? I go to some youtube video, see some stupid opinions, and just post the fucking rebuttals. End of story.


If you can't "agree" that any of that makes complete sense, then hey, you know, don't eat the fish ;)

Words can be offensive regardless of how they are delivered.

/topic

darth_ender said:

Twooffour, we can get away with more, and I would likely not be so blunt in reality were I to address others here personally.  But I think it gets to a point of being unreasonable all too often, and that was my original intent.  Let me give a hypothetical dialogue.

 

-I like the PT because of such and such.

-PT sux!!!!!!! lol rofl byob rsvp tgif tnt

-Umm...I like it.

-UR stupid!!! sol omg laser bff ttfn

 

Here I exaggerate and am not accusing anyone of such silliness (before I tangentially offend anyone again).  I'm just adding some humor.  But my point is that I get annoyed when I try to provide reasons for liking something and then get shut down in five words or less simply because someone does not like it.  I prefer reason to bumper sticker slogans.  That is my reason for causing this whole debate, and that is why I'm always so long-winded.

By the way, bet you all didn't know that laser is an acronym.  It stands for Light Amplification by the Stimulated Emission of Radiation.  Now go win at Trivial Pursuit :)

Ah, well, yea, sorry for going off a tangent, then? :)

But yea, that kind of argument, is just a stupid thing. The people doing the "unthinking", either enjoy being stupid without social repercussions, or they don't care, for stated reasons. (Or they don't realize it :D)

Obviously, I'm not saying that there is anything to justify being a dunce on the web :D

TV's Frink said:

Words can be offensive regardless of how they are delivered.

/topic

I've already covered that.

I find myself laughing at the accidental derailment of the train.  I've never caused such fun.  I now bask in my vast influence on the Internet.  Look at the time I've managed to steal from all of you as you typed up responses to my comments!  Mwahahaha!!!

Okay.  I'm done.  I really am laughing out how off-topic I made things, but by the powers vested in me, I hereby grant permission for this thread to go right back to its original intent.  And with that, I acknowledge that I think Ray Park makes an awesome Darth Maul, and I really enjoy the flashy sword fights.  I like the concept of the Sith, and actually found them a fascinating opposite to the Jedi.  I like the Kenobi/Jango fight.  I like the thought that Obi-Wan would be grumpy if he knew I were making fruit float to impress a girl (well, maybe not that last one).