Ziggy, why are you posting about video games in the politics thread???
;)
xhonzi said:
When it comes to BioShock Infinite, I see that "extreme" patriotism is what is being attacked. Like you, I have no problem condemning "extreme" patriotism. But I know that you and I would define that "extremism" differently and I suspect that we might define it very differently. It wouldn't surprise (or offend) me that you hold the private opinion that I am an extreme patriot, and need to tone it down somewhat. As your friend, I would also not be offended at an open discussion of such.
For all I know we might see extreme patriotism differently.
I wouldn't join the army to fight in the war on terror, because I simply don't believe in it, I don't believe in the way it has been conducted, nor do I believe in its effectiveness. If the draft were to be reinstated next week so we'd have more man power to fight in those places, I'd dodge that draft if chosen. I wouldn't die for a cause like that I don't believe in, and I'd rather do whatever it takes to fight those who'd force me to fight for them, including die trying if it came to that. I know several people who would call me unpatriotic for that. When patriotism means being a "yes man", I can do without it.
However, if it was an instance where I felt like I'd really be fighting and putting my life on the line to protect the freedom of my friends and loved ones, I'd jump to action. If we had foreign invaders on our soil, I'd grab the weapons I have and be quick to join the nearest civilian militia. This is a level of patriotism I have a great deal of respect for. I'd fight to protect the ideals of my country, the Constitution, and what it stands for and the freedoms it provides to me and everyone else who lives here.
Another thing we call patriotism is a high level of pride in our country. I am proud to be an American, and while our country has a history of missteps even in its short life, I am still pretty proud to have been born here. The United States is a pretty unique system, I love the way it was designed and the whole melting pot thing. The freedom of religion. The freedom of speech. The multiculturalism. It is fantastic! I've traveled around and it simply can be beat (American exceptionalism that I agree with, of course, there are other aspects of freedom that we totally fail at). However, you get people who get very ethnocentric with this, and tend to tear other countries apart or look down on them for not being as good as theirs. That is just plain ignorant nationalism. And as enjoyable as I find nationalist in other countries (come on! They tend to be a ton of fun!) when I see them in my our country they just embarrass me. When patriotism=nationalism (i.e. we are superior to them) I can do without it.
Extreme is kind of a vague word to use, hopefully this clarifies it. If there is one of my three above listed forms of patriotism that it looks like Bioshock Infinite might make itself a cautionary tale about, from what I have seen of the E3 footage it is the nationalist aspect. When Ken Levine mentioned that it was like monument that could fly around the world and show everyone a piece of the US, I couldn't help but think what a disgusting nationalistic concept that was. If they end up not condemning that to some degree I'll actually feel quite disappointed.
Does that clarify my position?
Well, Xhonzi, it clarifies your mom's position.