The Prequel Radical Redux Ideas Thread — Page 219

^really good point! there is one protocol droid.....just one.

Another thing that might sell the Separatists as a more realistic political/Military entity would be to include more humans.

Other than Dooku and Sidious they seem to be made up of a mixture of CGI, masked and painted aliens and comedy robots (mostly CGI) which makes them rather difficult to care about.

Bingowings said:

Droids are pretty much like washing machines in the Star Wars universe.

Owen's initial rejection of Threepio could be down to having one for a bit and not being that impressed (and then buying him anyway because his wife keeps using Luke as a proxy nag-o-phone).

Obi-Wan's droid fib (and yes he is prone to lying through his teeth thanks to George's many retcons) doesn't make any sense at all.

What does Kenobi hope to gain by either not telling the truth or perhaps being an uber-pedant?

OBI-WAN said :

I don't seem to remember ever owning a droid...very interesting. I was on first name terms with a few, including one that looks exactly like this one...funny little fella we used to call him Artoo but I never actually owned one. 

Someone once said that the burden of meshing the two trilogies together via fan editing should be placed on the PT, but I've thought that such would be far too difficult in some cases.  However, just this morning  I actually thought of a simple idea to correct this little mistake.  A little voice splicing and cutting to Luke's face could resultin a line such as, "I seem to remember a droid like this one...very interesting."  I don't know exactly where to get the "like this one" part, but something along these lines might be doable, simply showing that he vaguely remembers R2, but that 20 years have obscured his memory and he can't be sure.

darth_ender said:.  Someone once said that the burden of meshing the two trilogies together via fan editing should be placed on the PT, but I've thought that such would be far too difficult in some cases.  However, just this morning  I actually thought of a simple idea to correct this little mistake.  A little voice splicing and cutting to Luke's face could resultin a line such as, "I seem to remember a droid like this one...very interesting."  I don't know exactly where to get the "like this one" part, but something along these lines might be doable, simply showing that he vaguely remembers R2, but that 20 years have obscured his memory and he can't be sure.

Personally I'm not a fan of this but don't let that stop you from giving it a go that would be an idea for the ANH:SE Redux Thread and a video/audio mockup of the idea would be very welcome in that thread to provoke debate.

Well, I'll be honest.  I have far too little time, skill, finances, or motivation to work on any sort of edit.  I simply enjoy reading through the forum in my few free minutes and offer unsolicited ideas that don't generally ring with anyone else.  I find it fun.  I appreciate the fact that you are generally less sarcastic than other posters on this site, Bingowings.  One thing I've learned is that people become exponentially braver and more sarcastic when posting online.  90% try to develop an obnoxiously arrogant and opinionated attitude so their views have greater impact.  I don't get offended by their comments (like Darth Stewie did) since I will never meet anyone here and I do have friends that I actually talk to in person.  However, it is nice to have a little respect when you share ideas on the Web, even from someone who disagrees.

I agree with those sentiments but confess that when the I feel the need to be a horrid sour poopy-face I make a rubbish attempt to hold my own against the best of worst.

I was thinking about ways to punch-up the opening of TPM and it struck me – why not just start with the invasion of Naboo underway, skipping over all the faffing about on the control ship and Amidala talking about invasions and legalities?  The edit could go straight from the (re-written) opening crawl to the shot of the Federation ships descending on the planet, and then it would be a straight run from the ships landing and disgorging troop carriers to the Federation army advancing on Theed.

This would also mean that the first bit of dialogue in the movie would be when Nute Gunray is walking down the stairs with the captured royal court and the talk about ‘processing’ them, etc.  It would be a lot quicker and more action-oriented, and with a suitably re-written opening crawl it would hopefully be enough to set up who the characters are even though there introductions would be much more ‘on the fly’ as it were...  for instance, if the crawl already sets up a ‘young Queen’ then the shot of Padme looking solemnly out her window at the Fed army invading her city, it would hopefully set up who she is for the audience fairly well (and without having clunky exposition lines like ‘it is Queen Amidala herself!’).  Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan would first be seen sneaking through Theed and jumping out at the droids.  It would also work well with a Gungan free edit, as all their opening stuff would be cut, and Jar Jar could just be established as some ‘stray’ Qui-Gon picked up on an earlier adventure.   

darth_ender said:

Well, I'll be honest.  I have far too little time, skill, finances, or motivation to work on any sort of edit.

Take it from someone who used to think the exact same way - these things don't have to be barriers.

#1 and #4 go hand in hand in my experience.  I juggle a full-time job and two kids, so I assumed I never would have time.  But once I discovered my motivation, I realized I could make the time if the motivation was strong enough.  And it was.  Sleep is overrated, btw ;-)

#2 is something you can learn over time.  I used to think editing would be a horribly complicated mess but it's not as bad as you might think.  And there are tons of free resources out there, including members of this forum.

#3 is tricky but you can get decent programs like Womble or Vegas Studio for $50-$75.  And decent computers aren't very expensive anymore either.

Adding to what I wrote before - the first bit of dialogue could also be the exchange between Nute and the droid (via hologram) where he says to be on the look out for the Jedi on the planet.  This would help establish the idea that the Jedi are already there, so that when they are introduced sneaking around later it might not be so out of the blue (obviously they would be mentioned in the opening crawl as well).

I rather like the opening of TPM.

Of course context helps - I sat in the theater in 1999, waiting in anticipation for the first new SW movie since the early eighties.  And sure it took a few minutes to get going, but suddenly the jedi where whirling down the hall, taking out the battle droids, being the bad-asses we imagined they would have been.

TV's Frink said:

#1 and #4 go hand in hand in my experience.  I juggle a full-time job and two kids,

Yeah but sitting on the porch yelling at the ice-cream man is the sort of job you can take time off... and I imagine both your kids are in their 40s, so they aren't too much hastle.

;-)

I'd like to see you juggle two forty-year old kids when you are Frink's age.

TV's Frink said:

darth_ender said:

Well, I'll be honest.  I have far too little time, skill, finances, or motivation to work on any sort of edit.

Take it from someone who used to think the exact same way - these things don't have to be barriers.

#1 and #4 go hand in hand in my experience.  I juggle a full-time job and two kids, so I assumed I never would have time.  But once I discovered my motivation, I realized I could make the time if the motivation was strong enough.  And it was.  Sleep is overrated, btw ;-)

#2 is something you can learn over time.  I used to think editing would be a horribly complicated mess but it's not as bad as you might think.  And there are tons of free resources out there, including members of this forum.

#3 is tricky but you can get decent programs like Womble or Vegas Studio for $50-$75.  And decent computers aren't very expensive anymore either.

It is a difficult thing.  I did start edits on all three prequels last year.  I got a lot done on AOTC with a little on TPM & AOTC, but time goes on and other things pull your interest away.  I just had to get back to producing my own films.  I'm a self-taught editor since the mid-90s from QuickTime to Adobe Premiere and now Final Cut Pro.  So, yes, it is indeed a skill to be honed over years, but I started out just editing music videos and trailers from favorite movies and TV shows.  I both love and hate editing.  I love the art of it, and the pride I feel when it's all finished and works beautifully.  The hated part is just the technical scrutiny I have to put myself under to achieve the great results, and the tmes when something just isn't working and you have to fight with the footage to make it work.  But it all starts with the will and motivation to do it.  It took a long time for me to put myself into the right mindset to finally move forward with becoming an independent filmmaker.  It started with me deciding that I have to make it happen for myself, and make do with what little I had.  I'm working with an eight year old Mac G4.  So, even with a terribly outdated computer, you can still make it all work (just takes longer with my 128 MB video card).

Indeed, time is probably the biggest factor on these fan editing projects.  Once you get started, you just want to keep chipping away at it, but it's very time consuming in making choices, implementing your ideas, and finding ways to make it all work.  Add to that having to learn the editing program and develop your skills, and it does become a long, rough road.  Plus, you have a life to live, a job to pay the bills (hopefully), and maybe, a family to take care of.  So, as I also say to anyone in independent filmmaking, how bad do you want it?  How much does it mean to you to see this idea/project of yours completed?

For me, there are just not enough hours in the day, days in the week, or so on, to do all that I desire, on a creative level.  After nearly a year in hiatus, I am slowly working on my prequel fan edits, again.

-NJM

TheBoost said:

TV's Frink said:

#1 and #4 go hand in hand in my experience.  I juggle a full-time job and two kids,

Yeah but sitting on the porch yelling at the ice-cream man is the sort of job you can take time off... and I imagine both your kids are in their 40s, so they aren't too much hastle.

;-)

Get off my lawn, TheBoost!

I wasn't able to reply because for some odd reason, IE was having trouble reading this post since Coinilius's first comment.  I just today decided to use Chrome instead, and read how many encouraging words were written since my last comment.  Thanks for the thoughts.  You never know, maybe one day I will get to my own edit.

In a sense, this leads to a different thought I've been having: I notice that different editors seem to have strengths in different areas, i.e. sound and/or music, visual/special effects, storyline and alterations, etc.  It seems wise to me that a larger project should be started, where at least 3 skilled editors get together and focus on different aspects.  In the beginning, some discussion would be necessary to give the project a direction in which all parties would agree.  However, after initial agreement, a large measure of independence would be afforded to each editor in his area of specialty.  He would of course provide frequent updates to the others who would critique and make suggestions, but ultimately he has the final say in his arena.  In the end, a very impressive final product could be delivered, and with the input of more than one person, that product would more likely appeal to a larger audience.  Any thoughts?

coinilius said:

 

I was thinking about ways to punch-up the opening of TPM and it struck me – why not just start with the invasion of Naboo underway, skipping over all the faffing about on the control ship and Amidala talking about invasions and legalities?  The edit could go straight from the (re-written) opening crawl to the shot of the Federation ships descending on the planet, and then it would be a straight run from the ships landing and disgorging troop carriers to the Federation army advancing on Theed.

 

This would also mean that the first bit of dialogue in the movie would be when Nute Gunray is walking down the stairs with the captured royal court and the talk about ‘processing’ them, etc.  It would be a lot quicker and more action-oriented, and with a suitably re-written opening crawl it would hopefully be enough to set up who the characters are even though there introductions would be much more ‘on the fly’ as it were...  for instance, if the crawl already sets up a ‘young Queen’ then the shot of Padme looking solemnly out her window at the Fed army invading her city, it would hopefully set up who she is for the audience fairly well (and without having clunky exposition lines like ‘it is Queen Amidala herself!’).  Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan would first be seen sneaking through Theed and jumping out at the droids.  It would also work well with a Gungan free edit, as all their opening stuff would be cut, and Jar Jar could just be established as some ‘stray’ Qui-Gon picked up on an earlier adventure.   

I must say this is one of the better ideas I've seen for a TPM edit.

Along with killing Qui-Gon off earlier, although that was one of mine.

but then wouldn't the movie be like 1 hr long after more cuts?

did someone ever suggest offing qui gon on tatooine? it would be a shame because he really carries the film, but it would make an obi-wan vs darth maul duel at the end much more dramatic.

OzoneSherrif said:

but then wouldn't the movie be like 1 hr long after more cuts?

Funny you should say that - one of the edits that started me thinking about starting TPM off with the invasion under way was Nightstalkerpoets 'the Phantom Hour Edit' since his was the first one that I had seen which removed all the Gungans (except Jar Jar).

I had a thought last night about the Palpatine vs Yoda confrontation and the cave scene in ESB.

What if it was turned into more of a dream quest than a literal fist fight.

Yoda has entered into a domain of evil.

He encounters his own fears (The Jedi are pretty much wiped out, the Republic is now turned into a Sith Empire, is he partly responsible, is there a way out a way of fixing things?).

His fight with Palaptine could then become more surreal and symbolic (it's too OTT to be taken literally).

It could be cut with shots of slaughtered younglings including little Anakin blaming Yoda for not allowing this to happen and for freely using the Clones to fight a war that should never have started, while Palpatine pulls the Senate to pieces and throws it at him.

Afterwards it could fade and Qui-Gon's voice could tell him that now is not the time.

That way the scene never really happened, the visual spectacle is preserved but it makes sense in the same way that Luke's decapitated head in Vader's mask does and we get a contextual introduction to Qui-Gon still being able to communicate via the Force.

General Idea: GOING TO A MORE OTISH PLOT in ROTS. (Character centred). I assume that one of the main differences between PT and OT is how cosmopolitan feels the new trilogy when opposed to the OT. So even if some character and situations are necessary, my goal here is to find a way to make the story of ROTS be driven by the main characters. So as far as in the OT we had this "triangle" or characters Luke-Han-Leia, I think that the most close we have to that in the PT is Anakin-ObiWan-Padmé.

"He was a pupil of mine until he turned to evil" - "Annie was a good friend" HOW TO BOND ANAKIN AND OBIWAN:

Well, immaginin' an all-PT-episodes fanedit saga, make it as if Obi Wan was not that impollute Jedi we see in the PT, but someone more in line with the great guy, but yet tricky person we see in the OT, ala Qui Gonn. Someone who we know has great intentions however's a little rogue; a Master who could tolerate Anakin being married. Infact sharing the secret is an implicit way of showing how bonded they are as best friends. This is a process of "Han-izing" ObiWan a little, which I don't have any idea about how could it be pulled out.

Second, they've got to be seen as if they were together in almost everything they do:

      Suggestion 1: ObiWan knows about Padme and Anakin (from the beginning, he even encourages the relationship:

a) in the elevator scene at the start of AOTC, you could edit it in plenty of ways that would make it look like obiwan has no trouble with anakin and padmé being together.

b) in the circus, I think that when some stupid CGI monster appears, Obi says something kinda "I think I can handle this (sarchastic)". Well, you could always put that little shot after Anakin and Padme's kiss before going out to the arena, so it'd look like Kenobi has seen Anakin and Padme making out.

By ROTS ObiWan should know about them so as to make it possible some other scenes I have in mind (Obiwan never gets back to the Jedi Building after order 66, he gets straight to Padme's because he's worried about Anakin)

      Suggestion 2:  It's a little invasive in the plot and would require some reference in the crawl, and editing both in ROTS as in an AOTC future edit. The changes needed are rather simple, easily doable and minimal, there's also a nice moral question that would be left in the air at the end of AOTC. Resuming, the idea is: Not all the Jedi agree in joining the clone wars as generals. There's a faction led by Mace windu who don't join the grand army after Geonosis. Though there's never actually a break-up within the order, there are disagreements in what to do. Mace Windu and co. reject joining the war, and want to keep an eye on the senate.

Erase yoda's dialogue in the council season (whith the holograms, when Yoda's on Kasshyk) where they decide throw down palpatine from office. Windu and his gang would be acting on their own when they go to arrest palpatine, without the council's approval. As Windu never directly served palpatine's manipulative objective (he never joined the war), there's a new taste for palpatine in killing him the way he did, isn't it? With all that anger...

 Yoda, Anakin, ObiWan and KiAdiMundi (the latter just because his protagonism in order 66 sequence) join the army, and usually go abroad.This way you would be establishing:.

 a) Anakin/Vader's passion for military operations

b) Anakin and ObiWan being in some way separated from the "rest" of the Jedi, which would make them be more tied for the spectator, as I said, they would be in a way, the Lennon/McCartneys of the order.

c) THE MORAL ISSUE at the end of AOTC regarding the Jedi should fight or stand for peace.

d) THE MORAL ISSUE in the OT of having Vader, ObiWan, and Yoda be responsible of fixing what their former actions did.

  

Another change for implementation: There's a line at a stupid and dense naboo scene of Anakin saying "I'm glad that you chose to serve"... well you put that at the begginning of ROTS in the battle, and then you have "the proof" that not all the Jedi have joined the Clone Wars

I already done that with audacity, and it just fits easily... the two fighters appear at the very begginning of ROTS and one of the first things you hear anakin say when they join the battle of Coruscant is "I'm glad that you chose to serve master". You know, Anakin is thanking Obi wan for giving him some war "action".

      Suggestion 3: ObiWan protects Anakin in the council. When Anakin doesn't get the rank of master and starts whining, in the theatrical release ObiWan makes some gesture of reproval with his head (he nods it to the sides like saying "no").  Tweak it so that when Anakin is about to start whining, ObiWan makes that gesture to Anakin like saying "It isn't convenient", not as a reproval, but as an advice, and inmediately after that, Anakin shuts his ass and sits.

I think these are the kind of things two close friends would do. Obi Wan would be saying with no words "shut up, we're already separated from Windu, don't make this move now...

 

 

Anakin and his wife:

As I said many times before, making Anakin go right to Padmé's after Palpatine confessing he's the Sith Lord would be a hon-ron. By this, you add depth to the marriage relationship, and uncertainty, and perhaps even manipulative intelligence to Anakin's character. The best thing? The actions are speaking; there'd be no wooden dialogue!

To do this and yet not affect the development of the plot, we've to state how would the Jedi realize about Palpatine's identity. I've suggested that as "the dark side clouds everything" it could even be clouding the Jedi's minds so that they don't act specifically as they should. They'd rather be a little jerks here and convey in a council season (the one that there's Windu and almost the rest are holograms, which is not at the council chamber) that the Chancellor will be removed when Grievous is dead. This scene may need a little edition/tweakering to get moving though I suppose it's not a big deal.

POSSIBLE EXPANSION OF THE IDEA:
Once more, the dark side clouds everything, so considering there's a deleted scene that shows almost the same content that "the hologram council scene"; that deleted scene could make it to an edit since it shows only ObiWan, Yoda and Windu, and it'd lead us to think "hey, these are three Jedi that are making decissions as if they were even upper than the council". (This would make some of Anakins suspicions and angers be reasonable, after all he's not that wrong about the Jedi being a little jerks).

PRO of this expansion!:
Showing this "high command" of the Jedi order, even above the rest of the council
Giving more reasons to Anakin (and through him, till this point of the movie, to the spectator) to be unsure about the Jedi.

------------------------------------------

ObiWan gets sent to Utapau to fight Grievous , and in the meanwhile

Anakin turns

-Palp tells Anakin (in his office) what to do... "the sith will rule the galaxy, etc."

- Cut to somewhere else (am I the only one that feels it's too rushed how far Anakin gets to do his "first strike"???

- Cut back to Anakin first strike with your amazing new score. After this comes the part when I say we need to see another important character ... ok here's the novelty: that character is Palpatine. The idea would be: "while Anakin is killing people, what is Palpatine doing, sitting in his office??": NO.

SO:

- Cut to Palpatine telling Cody "execute order 66"

- Cut to somewhere that's not Utapau.... maybe Padmé criying when she sees fire in the Jedi's.

- Cut to Utapau. ObiWan reunites with Cody, and then Cody shots him.

 

THE DETAIL: Cody would be giving him his lightsabre! And he says I think you'll be needing this! Left to the viewer's interpretation whether Cody was helping ObiWan or not.... If this is done well, you would have just made another character a little more deep!.

Besides, this way it'd be better, because you'd be generating another tension. You see what happens to Anakin and in the middle of it, you see the emperor telling a clone commander to "execute order 66". So it makes you wander what's gonna happen with ObiWan. There you generate the tension, but again, you put something in the middle: Padmé's scene, and maybe more (the more the better).

And when you come back to Utapau, you see the Clone might have developed some affection (?) for his Jedi General who chose to serve...

  

TILL HERE, THE RADICAL BUT EASILY DOABLE STUFF.

 

NOW...

 

Obi Wan's scape and afterwards.

You might have seen that Bob Garcia replaced the hologram in kenobi's fighter by a radio wave. This allows you to not only replace the hologram, but the whole message.

 

 

The video message of Palpatine's asistant should be replaced with the radio again, and it'd be something like:
"His majesty (HERE is when you insert a quick shot of Obi and Yoda putting their best oh-shit faces) has requested you for a special season of the senate."

(The WTF faces ar mainly due to "his majesty"... Palpatine hasn't even declared the Empire yet. This is just a way to "inform" Yoda and ObiWan what's really happening, without giving it in the mouth, so once again, you make the characters more clever.

 

After the tantive's cockpit scene, you should cut entirely the lame CGI scene of ObiWan and Yoda establishing the emergency signal in Coruscant. Why?

Because in a character-centred plot, we'd be mainly with ObiWan. So I guess Yoda could go and establish the signal on his own, while Obi Wan would be worried about Anakin (it's a tragedy, he's worried about his friend, but he doesn't know he's a killer). And since ObiWan knows about Anakin and Padmé, he'd know exactly where to go in order to find his friend

---- Cut to Mustafar, and end of this suggestion----

POSSIBLE EXPANSION/VARIATION OF THE IDEA:

Even if the "best friends" plot line is a radical change, it came to my mind the idea of another possibility that could enhance or replace what I formerly suggested.

Well besides being worried for his best friend... perhaps ObiWan thinks that Anakin's time has come...
I mean, APART from the friendship preocupation, ObiWan wants to find Anakin because he is considered "the chosen one", "the only one who could destroy the sith".... so they need to find him the same way you need to find a baseball bat when someone's punching you (bad methaphore). They need him as a weapon. And when ObiWan goes to mustafar and sees what happen... well, everything crumbles down.

How to do this??

Right after the Tantive's cockpit scene, cut to the Tantive's corridor scene, and alter the dialogue so that it looks like this (once again with dialogue from the original footage)

ObiWan: Have we received any message from the "temple" (here change "temple" and put ANAKIN)? There's too much at stake master. He must know.
Yoda: (Silence)
ObiWan: With all of your respect master, isn't he the chosen one? We need him
Y: a prophecy that coulda been misunderstood
O: He is my best friend, I know he won't fail me (or something)

 

The way I've immagined this, the message that Kenobi gets from bail's ship should be replaced.First of all, it won't be Bail Organa, bail Organa's a senator, why would he be getting radio mesagges from anyone. Logically, the message should be received by the commander of his ship: Antilles. Plus, this would be a fan service to OT.

 SINCE WE'VE ESTABLISHED OBI WAN AND ANAKIN ARE VERY CLOSE TO EACH OTHER the dialogue could be something like this.

Captain:"Captain Antilles here. This is Senator Organa's ship"
ObiWan: "Captain my clonetrooper fired at me...."
Captain:"...it seems that there's been a Jedi rebellion sir. The jedi are being hunted. We'll send you our cordenades"
(Comunication off)
OBI WAN (face gesture of "dammit"): ANAKIN!! (worried about him being murdered as the rest of the Jedi). ( this is the tricky line to do)

----well, obiwan reaches the tantive, Yoda does it too, and in the cockpit----

 

So here it is for those who asked for it. I know I said I had some ideas for makin anakin look like the great guy of the clone wars... and I posted what I got. However, those ideas are chained with others, if you wanna make some character be distinguished, you just have to make him do things the others don't, or wouldn't do. Saving obiwan in the Invisible hand, for example is something we already got. I propose to pull this even further and, as I said, make Kenobi and Skywalker be "the Lennon/McCartneys" be doing mostly on their own (along with Yoda, and Ki) something the other Jedis don't do.

Alright, been

lurking here with this long enough, I guess. This is my re-edit of the pod race sequence for what I hoped would be a larger project that laziness has prevented me from getting into at this point. My idea was for the prequels to have been made in a world where George Lucas had made all six films in order and thus Phantom Menace would have been originally released in the mid-1960s. I wanted to give it that sort of a feel by utilizing some of John Williams earlier works into the music track (which has necessitated an all new sound FX track that I have barely started. I have the music and video portions complete, however).

The story itself is self-contained and episodic. Qui-Gon Ginn arrives on Tatoonine alone as a Jedi recruiter after hearing rumors of a young pod racer with extraordinary abilities. (I get the sense that Qui-Gon finds the whole racing concept distasteful by one of his facial expressions).

There is no dialogue and the whole race involves only Anakin and Sebulba and clocks in at under three minutes.

Not sure if anyone will like this but I thought I would put it out there in case anyone may want to pick up the ball and run with the concept. It is my thought that since the prequels are so full of flaws it would be feasible to cut them into pieces and salvage the good parts. The missing story points would simply add to the mystery that the PT is missing. Not everything needed to be shown or explained. It was so much better when I was living during the OT era and my imagination had to fill in the blanks. George was not able to make those details more appealing than my imagination did all those years ago.

Anyway, here is my contribution as it now stands.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYw0OAMC1s8

That is an amalgam of the original SW score mixed with Close Encounters and Lost In Space. Glad you liked it!

oooooh my goodness! that is brilliant! really captured the vintage feeling!