The Empire Strikes Back is the best Star Wars movie. Or is it? — Page 8

Bingowings said:

Racial epithets are only bigoted when they are attached to a history of repression.

No.

CP3S said:

Bingowings said:

Racial epithets are only bigoted when they are attached to a history of repression.

No.

 Yes.

Seeing as I have countered a YANA* with a YANA, I will give an example on my side.

A racial epithet is a description of racially defined superficial difference usually used in some degree of mockery.

The problem with taking a shared history of repression out of the equation is that in almost every case we could propose there does exist a shared history of repression in racial interactions which adds an extra layer of political inference to comments of that nature.

If you were instead to shift it to other descriptions of superficial difference usually used in some degree of mockery, such as hair colour, body shape, notions of beauty and ugliness etc it's easier to imagine a different situation.

Comments of those kinds can still be cruel and even used as socio-political mechanisms of control  but there is no defined collective group of historically repressed people connected to those comments, few repressive groups historically associated with their use and few collective groups of resistance countering such comments.

There are no institutionalised ginger hair oppressor groups and the few groups who are organised to combat the jibes against red heads are not taken as seriously as people fighting against racial bigotry.

People of all races can be cruel to overweight or 'ugly' people and while statistical proofs exist that prejudice based on those superficial differences can effect the life chances of people there are no marches for the rights of the ugly or the short, or the lanky.

There is no defined history of systemic oppression.

In an alien or fictional culture it may be that ethnic differences (like skin colour) have never been used in the way we are familiar (or the roles may have been reversed).

A racial epithet would in such an environment have a totally different meaning to that society to that we are familiar with.

Indeed in the future or even in the far distant past of our own species they may have also a totally different meaning.

Are we still talking about Leia?  Just checking.

Bingowings said:

A racial epithet is a description of racially defined superficial difference usually used in some degree of mockery.

The problem with taking a shared history of repression out of the equation is that in almost every case we could propose there does exist a shared history of repression in racial interactions which adds an extra layer of political inference to comments of that nature....

....

There is no defined history of systemic oppression.

A racial epithet would in such an environment have a totally different meaning to that society to that we are familiar with.

Indeed in the future or even in the far distant past of our own species they may have also a totally different meaning.

 Well said.

I wish I had said it. But I was just taking a piss.

greenpenguino said:

 

rac·ism
[rey-siz-uhm]
–noun
1.
a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.
2.
a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.
3.
hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.

Dictionary definition, just thought I'd put it out there

 

Per definition 1, Chewie can't be racist towards Leia...

DOUBLE STANDARDS!

EDIT: They can't be racist towards each other per #1, so...Leia's comment is not racist.

/thread

Speciesism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speciesism

Speciesism is the assigning of different values or rights to beings on the basis of their species membership. The term was created by British psychologist Richard D. Ryder in 1973 to denote a prejudice against non-humans based on physical differences that are given moral value^[1] However, it can also refer to misanthropy, a hatred of all humans because they are human. "I use the word 'speciesism'," he wrote in 1975, "to describe the widespread discrimination that is practised by man against other species ... Speciesism is discrimination, and like all discrimination it overlooks or underestimates the similarities between the discriminator and those discriminated against." 

Harmy said:

Well, if we're not counting the EU, where it is clear that the Wookies are being enslaved and considered lesser beings by the Empire. So it is the EU, that made Leia a racist ;-)

 Reason #321 that the EU is wiggity whack.

^ I always got that feeling when watching the films; that the empire is intolerant of other species.

(Did I just end up repeating what you said?)

timdiggerm said:

It's not entirely baseless though. Please, consider the following:

• The most aliens we see are on backwater worlds, or in the Alliance
• We never see Imperial aliens
• The guard in the Detention Block refers to Chewie as "that thing".

 

Is the Empire inherently speciest within OT-canon? It's not explicitly stated, but it sure is easy to draw that conclusion.

I've said before that going by "Star Wars" and "ESB" it's easy to assume that the Empire/Rebel conflict is a conflict in the galactic human government.

Perhaps instead of a system of oppression of other member-species of the same government body, we're seeing the Imperials bully/ignore species completely outside the political sphere of influence.

(obviously the inclusion of the Ackbars in ROTJ complicates this, but doesn't discount it)

The Empire's speciesist and sexist. Notice the lack of women in the Imperial hierarchy.

The Empire's speciesist and sexist. Notice the lack of women in the Imperial hierarchy.

And no Mawgs.  They could be the Empire's best friend, after themselves of course.

What is more shocking to me is the blind spot towards AI slavery in the Star Wars universe.

Artoo and Threepio exhibit all the signs of being fully sentient and well rounded characters (certainly more so than most of the PT characters) and yet they are frequently treated as little more than utilities by everyone, regardless of their political viewpoint.

Jabba keeps organic slaves, the Empire is textually described as tyrannical and evil and they have organically grown programmable people (clones) but the Rebels are meant to be the good guys as are the Jedi in the PT (who use droids and clones as personable utilities too).

The ROTJ droid torture scene is done for laughs and Artoo himself laughs his nuts off at the thought of his 'friend' having the droid version of a lobotomy in ROTS.

DuracellEnergizer said:

The Empire's speciesist and sexist. Notice the lack of women in the Imperial hierarchy.

 I disagree. In the OOT the Emperor is at least 1/3 female.

So this is the new Random SW Thoughts thread?

...

Just checking.

Tell that to Star Trek II.

...

Carp, sucked in again!