Anyone hate Return of the Jedi? — Page 5

I'll say this about ROTJ the speeder bike chase sequence is still cooler than any one thing in the prequels.

Canby slated it back in 83':

Published: May 25, 1983

'Return of the Jedi,'' written by Lawrence Kasdan and Mr. Lucas and directed by Richard Marquand, doesn't really end the trilogy as much as it brings it to a dead stop. The film, which opens today at Loews Astor Plaza and other theaters, is by far the dimmest adventure of the lot. All of the members of the old ''Star Wars'' gang are back doing what they've done before, but this time with a certain evident boredom.

http://movies.nytimes.com/movie/review?res=9c00e3d71e38f936a15756c0a965948260

Anchorhead said:

In Star Wars we had burned bodies, mass murder (Alderaan), torture, severed arms lying on the floor, untrustworthy hired pilot, etc. Those elements were either castrated or g-rated as the series progressed and I think that hurt the OT overall.  There was real danger in Star Wars.  The lack of of any real danger in Return made me want to walk out of the theater in 1983.

For me, the change didn't work.  For a most others, it worked well and still does.

Even though I understand what you mean, when you're describing Star Wars, it starting to sound like a serious heavy drama, quite much overkill IMO. This is pulp and fantasy material afterall. Don't try to pretend it's something different than it is, it's a very well made fantasy film for kids, and when I say kids, I mean 7-18 year olds, (yes, a kid can be 18) don't be ashamed for liking a good film primarily directed towards kids. Just because it showed burned bodies in one scene doesn't directly make the film only made for mature audiences. Good fairytales have always had dark material embedded in their stories throughout history, it should have. Jedi is just a bad kid-film IMO. And who can really blame them, it was the third film out in the franchise, the legendary bad sequel-nr, I challenge you to name a good third, (don't mention Return of the King, as it's not a sequel in that sense, IMO it's not even that great.)

Although, in these days when I am seeing bad hollywood films, I am seeing Return of the Jedi as the blueprint, not Star Wars as it is often accused for. That legendary film is still something very unique, it's horribly sad that it cannot be enjoyed like it should anymore. It's pure magic and new generations are not allowed to see it... madness.

Anyway, I think I am one of those fans you're looking for doubleKO, as Anchorhead, I have disconnected myself, but just from Jedi the last 15 - 20 years. When I feel the urge to watch them, it's just SW and Empire, that universe is much more interesting to me, the ambiguity of it all, doesn't matter to me one bit that everything isn't wrapped up at the end or not, I like it that way much better than I was presented with in '83. I guess it also depends on how much you want to get a formulated congratulation-card conclusion to stories in film all the time. I think both films compliment each other perfectly. It ends on a downer yes, but it's beautiful!

Even though I loved Jedi when it came out in 83', by the time it came out on V2000(my video system---even more rare than betamax!) in 86'  I was really disappointed in it.

The quality of the tape did not help.

The colours were  completly washed out so the whole film had a grey tinge to it.

That compounded by the seemingly less dynamic story made me wonder why I had liked the film so much just 3 years earlier.

It was not until a mate showed me a VHS tape of the special edition in 97'/98 that I rediscovered my liking for the film .

Anchorhead said:

msycamore said:

Don't try to pretend it's something different than it is, it's a very well made fantasy film for kids, and when I say kids, I mean 7-18 year olds, (yes, a kid can be 18) don't be ashamed for liking a good film primarily directed towards kids. Just because it showed burned bodies in one scene doesn't directly make the film only made for mature audiences.

I don't pretend it's something it isn't.  No two ways about it, it's an outer space fantasy enjoyed by all ages.  My point was that Star Wars' darker moments had a feeling of heaviness, of actual danger.  Return's darker moments were either cleansed or played for laughs (or at least along with laughs). 

During Return, at no point what so ever did I get the feeling our heroes were even close to any sort of danger.  In Star Wars, Luke's family is murdered, Leia's family is murdered, Vader murders a guy while he's talking to him then throws his body on the ground, and Ben is killed (albeit willingly). There's a seriousness to Star Wars & Empire (to me, at least) that doesn't exist in Return.

Return is like a roller coaster at an amusement park.  When it goes through the dark tunnel, you know the monsters are fake, so you laugh while you're jumping out of your seat.  In Star Wars & Empire, when it goes through the dark tunnel, the monsters burn your family, kill your best friend, and cut your hand off.

 

I guess it really is about perception.

When I saw Star Wars back to back with Empire in 81' (aged 6) only Empire gave me that sense of palpable danger to any of  the the 3 main heroes.

In SW,even when Vader was blowing up all the other rebels in the trenches I never felt Luke himself was really in danger.

It did not matter because the whole thing looked f*****g awesome!

I thought I commented in this thread, but I guess I didn't.

...

*runs*

doubleKO said:

Thanks for the post msycamore. How old were you when you first saw it? My brother is almost three years younger than me but he has gone off Jedi more than I have. I wouldn't say he hates it, but he definitely has less tolerance of its faults than I do. 

I was 12 years old when I first saw it, I don't hate it but I really think it is a piss-poor continuation of Empire and an average film, I actually watched parts of it when I helped dark_jedi with his project.

Great points, Anchorhead and CO. I agree with you for the most part, but the bigger reason I don't like Jedi is because of the weak script, sloppy direction and bad performances more than the lack of seriousness. But maybe it all goes hand in hand.