Info: - Greedo & Jabba subtitles, theatrical placement and fonts - — Page 4

I agree zombie, actually my plan was to make two different script, one for those who don't have any overscan problem.

Ok, I double checked my sub script one last time before dark_jedi went to use it in his custom DVD, to see if I could improve the positioning and drop shadow without taking the TV-overscan into consideration this time but IMO. it was already perfect in positioning. And I also dare to say it will be just inside the safe area of older CRT TV's. So I won't do a second script. I want to improve it overall though with the suggested grainstructure for example but I just need a break from this damn subs for the moment, so if anyone feel they can do them better, please feel free to steal my work and improve them, I won't do anything more to it, at least for a while.

"Good news, everyone!" (...with a TV that is germane to the situation...)

:) I'm happy to please you Ripplin!

Ha! Thanks. ;)

I actually had a 46" Sharp LCD for a day, didn't like it, and returned it. Didn't bother looking again right away and now I can't afford one. Haha. So I'm still in CRT Land, but I still love my old TV anyway. :p

Ok, dark_jedi have asked me to help out with making subs for his second SE preservation, and I am wondering if someone knows if the timing of the hard coded subs on the '97 Laserdiscs are the same as the '04 DVD subs?

For those who are interested I've done the subs for dark_jedi's ANH '97SE forthcoming disc and decided to share some observations I did when working on them, some may find it interesting.

The timings and the appearence of the '97 LD/VHS subs are not identical to the theatrical subs where I do have a reference to look at, the same goes for the '04 DVD subs. Here is all the lines that differ from each other.

Greedo:

'97 LD - "...every bounty hunter in the galaxy will be looking for you."

'04 DVD - "every bounty hunter in the galaxy will be looking for you."

'97 LD - "He has no time for smugglers who drop their shipments..."

'04 DVD - "He has no time for smugglers..."

'97 LD - "...at the first sign of an Imperial cruiser."

'04 DVD - "who drop their shipments at the first sign of an Imperial cruiser."

Jabba:

'97 LD - "Solo, come out of there, Solo!"

'04 DVD - "Solo! Come out of there, Solo!"

'97 LD - "So, for an extra twenty percent..."

'04 DVD - "So, for an extra 20%--"

'97 LD - "Okay, fifteen percent."

'04 DVD - "Okay, 15%."

'97 LD/'04 DVD - "But if you fail me again..."

Theatrical - "But, if you fail me again..."

'97 LD - "You won’t be able to go near a civilized system."

Theatrical/'04 DVD - "you won’t be able to go near a civilized system."

Also the DVD subs have the word "Imperial" with a lowercase i. The lines that are split up doesn't have an ellipsis before the continuing line in the SE as the Original had, you can see this in the screen-caps on the first page. Now, I'll end my useless ranting... ;)

Man, did they chnage it to 20% and 15% to dumb it down a bit for 2004 audiences? :p

Ok, I recently sent these clips to Harmy as he wanted to use my Jedi subs as base for his project so I figured I could as well post them here as a preview of how they'll look on dark_jedi's GOUT v.3 disc.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=3OV697T7

It's all sub-scenes in the film except one, which I'm still in doubt of how it's supposed to be presented. I'll post the Jedi script as soon as it is finished.

I've updated the first page with my Return of the Jedi sub script if anyone is interested. I also managed to improve it a little bit since I posted my video clips. Hope you like it.

Just thought I would post some additional reference pictures of the Greedo subtitles from the 1982 Laserdisc, NJM posted one of these from the HBO broadcasted version earlier in this thread, the '82 LD uses the same transfer I guess. You can clearly see that it uses the same font as the original theatrical print if you compare them with the screen-caps on the first page, the lines are also broken up in the same way, just smaller with a different positioning due to pan & scan. I've also noticed that the Jabba subtitles in Jedi aren't exactly the same as the Greedo subtitles as I earlier thought, very close but not exactly, you can see that Jedi have smaller dots and some slightly different looking letters compared to SW, I assume it is the same font family just with a slight variation to it... I may obsessing a little too much over this but I find it interesting. ;) Just like how the "A long time ago"-preface differ slightly between the three original films.

Anyway, I intend to improve and update my sub-scripts located on the first page as soon as I get the time and the motivations for it, especially the Jedi script, if Video Collector's Jedi bootleg will shed some new light on the matter.

msycamore said:

Video Collector's Jedi bootleg

What is that? Hadn't heard of it.

See here: http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Theater-Performance-Preservations/post/458978/#TopicPost458978 

Thanks! :)

I've updated the sub-script for Star Wars on the first page: http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Greedo-Jabba-subtitles-theatrical-positioning-and-font/post/417103/#TopicPost417103

Will update the script for Jedi later...

Thanks to Video Collector's "Theater Performance"-disc, I've updated the Return of the Jedi script on the first page. Which is now ridiculously big in size.

The most significant changes besides the timings and positioning are the line "This bounty hunter is my kind of scum, fearless and inventive." It was not broken up on the theatrical prints as on later video releases. I earlier suspected this when dark_jedi's early pan & scan LD had it presented this way, but on two lines instead due to being in fullscreen. But now we know.

The other thing that's different is that there was extra spacing between the ellipsis and the acual lines on "You may have been a good smuggler ..." and "... but now you’re Bantha fodder." just like how I now wrote them. ;)

Thank you, Fritz for making this possible. :)

I'll update the first page later with screen-caps of all the lines and their corresponding GOUT frame counts so other can make easy use of my work if they want to.

hairy_hen asked me if I could post the scripts I made for dark_jedi's 720p Bluray project, so I'll post them here, maybe other can find them somewhat useful when they make their own 720p - projects:

STAR WARS (NTSC-GOUT)

cropping values:

Crop(0,96,0,-96,align=true)

Spline36Resize(1288,576).Crop(14,14,-6,-18,align=true).AddBorders(6,88,6,88)

####### Black subtitles to simulate a drop shadow #######

subtitle ("Going somewhere, Solo?", \
429,503,70663,70698, \
"TradeGothic LT Bold",53,text_color=$000000,halo_color=$0F0F0F,spc=-2,font_width=17.6,interlaced=true)
subtitle ("It’s too late. You should have paid him when you had the chance.", \
87,503,70825,70931, \
"TradeGothic LT Bold",53,text_color=$000000,halo_color=$0F0F0F,spc=-4,font_width=17.6,interlaced=true)
subtitle ("Jabba’s put a price on your head so large every\n" + \
"bounty hunter in the galaxy will be looking for you...", \
190,504,70940,71088, \
"TradeGothic LT Bold",53,text_color=$000000,halo_color=$0F0F0F,spc=-2,font_width=17.6,lsp=25,interlaced=true)
subtitle ("I’m lucky I found you first.", \
412,503,71098,71137, \
"TradeGothic LT Bold",53,text_color=$000000,halo_color=$0F0F0F,spc=-2,font_width=17.6,interlaced=true)
subtitle ("If you give it to me, I might forget I found you.", \
247,503,71203,71282, \
"TradeGothic LT Bold",53,text_color=$000000,halo_color=$0F0F0F,spc=-2,font_width=17.6,interlaced=true)
subtitle ("Jabba’s through with you.", \
423,503,71365,71406, \
"TradeGothic LT Bold",53,text_color=$000000,halo_color=$0F0F0F,spc=-2,font_width=17.6,interlaced=true)
subtitle ("He has no time for smugglers...", \
370,503,71435,71489, \
"TradeGothic LT Bold",53,text_color=$000000,halo_color=$0F0F0F,spc=-2,font_width=17.6,interlaced=true)
subtitle ("...who drop their shipments at the first sign of an Imperial cruiser.", \
82,503,71498,71595, \
"TradeGothic LT Bold",53,text_color=$000000,halo_color=$0F0F0F,spc=-4,font_width=17.6,interlaced=true)
subtitle ("You can tell that to Jabba. He may only take your ship.", \
171,503,71656,71748, \
"TradeGothic LT Bold",53,text_color=$000000,halo_color=$0F0F0F,spc=-2,font_width=17.6,interlaced=true)
subtitle ("That’s the idea.", \
504,503,71806,71833, \
"TradeGothic LT Bold",53,text_color=$000000,halo_color=$0F0F0F,spc=-2,font_width=17.6,interlaced=true)
subtitle ("I’ve been looking forward to this for a long time.", \
226,503,71843,71931, \
"TradeGothic LT Bold",53,text_color=$000000,halo_color=$0F0F0F,spc=-2,font_width=17.6,interlaced=true)

####### Main subtitles ########

subtitle ("Going somewhere, Solo?", \
-1,554,70663,70698, \
"TradeGothic LT Bold",53,text_color=$DCDCDC,halo_color=$FF000000,spc=-2,font_width=17.6,interlaced=true)
subtitle ("It’s too late. You should have paid him when you had the chance.", \
-1,554,70825,70931, \
"TradeGothic LT Bold",53,text_color=$DCDCDC,halo_color=$FF000000,spc=-4,font_width=17.6,interlaced=true)
subtitle ("Jabba’s put a price on your head so large every\n" + \
"bounty hunter in the galaxy will be looking for you...", \
188,503,70940,71088, \
"TradeGothic LT Bold",53,text_color=$DCDCDC,halo_color=$FF000000,spc=-2,font_width=17.6,lsp=25,interlaced=true)
subtitle ("I’m lucky I found you first.", \
-1,554,71098,71137, \
"TradeGothic LT Bold",53,text_color=$DCDCDC,halo_color=$FF000000,spc=-2,font_width=17.6,interlaced=true)
subtitle ("If you give it to me, I might forget I found you.", \
-1,554,71203,71282, \
"TradeGothic LT Bold",53,text_color=$DCDCDC,halo_color=$FF000000,spc=-2,font_width=17.6,interlaced=true)
subtitle ("Jabba’s through with you.", \
-1,554,71365,71406, \
"TradeGothic LT Bold",53,text_color=$DCDCDC,halo_color=$FF000000,spc=-2,font_width=17.6,interlaced=true)
subtitle ("He has no time for smugglers...", \
-1,554,71435,71489, \
"TradeGothic LT Bold",53,text_color=$DCDCDC,halo_color=$FF000000,spc=-2,font_width=17.6,interlaced=true)
subtitle ("...who drop their shipments at the first sign of an Imperial cruiser.", \
-1,554,71498,71595, \
"TradeGothic LT Bold",53,text_color=$DCDCDC,halo_color=$FF000000,spc=-4,font_width=17.6,interlaced=true)
subtitle ("You can tell that to Jabba. He may only take your ship.", \
-1,554,71656,71748, \
"TradeGothic LT Bold",53,text_color=$DCDCDC,halo_color=$FF000000,spc=-2,font_width=17.6,interlaced=true)
subtitle ("That’s the idea.", \
-1,554,71806,71833, \
"TradeGothic LT Bold",53,text_color=$DCDCDC,halo_color=$FF000000,spc=-2,font_width=17.6,interlaced=true)
subtitle ("I’ve been looking forward to this for a long time.", \
-1,554,71843,71931, \
"TradeGothic LT Bold",53,text_color=$DCDCDC,halo_color=$FF000000,spc=-2,font_width=17.6,interlaced=true)

RETURN OF THE JEDI (PAL-GOUT)

cropping values:

Crop(0,112,0,-112,align=true).AddBorders(8,0,8,0)

Spline36Resize(1300,592).Crop(18,24,-16,-24,align=true).AddBorders(7,88,7,88)

####### Black subtitles to simulate a drop shadow #######

subtitle ("There will be no bargain.", \
425,516,14382,14474, \
"TradeGothic LT Bold",53,text_color=$000000,halo_color=$0F0F0F,spc=-2,font_width=17.6,interlaced=true)
subtitle ("I will not give up my favorite decoration.", \
292,516,14539,14700, \
"TradeGothic LT Bold",53,text_color=$000000,halo_color=$0F0F0F,spc=-2,font_width=17.6,interlaced=true)
subtitle ("I like Captain Solo where he is.", \
370,516,14778,14856, \
"TradeGothic LT Bold",53,text_color=$000000,halo_color=$0F0F0F,spc=-2,font_width=17.6,interlaced=true)
subtitle ("I have come for the bounty on this Wookiee.", \
262,516,20523,20624, \
"TradeGothic LT Bold",53,text_color=$000000,halo_color=$0F0F0F,spc=-2,font_width=17.6,interlaced=true)
subtitle ("At last we have the mighty Chewbacca.", \
301,516,20765,20892, \
"TradeGothic LT Bold",53,text_color=$000000,halo_color=$0F0F0F,spc=-2,font_width=17.6,interlaced=true)
subtitle ("I want fifty thousand. No less.", \
383,516,21502,21551, \
"TradeGothic LT Bold",53,text_color=$000000,halo_color=$0F0F0F,spc=-2,font_width=17.6,interlaced=true)
subtitle ("This bounty hunter is my kind of scum, fearless and inventive.", \
115,516,22551,22772, \
"TradeGothic LT Bold",53,text_color=$000000,halo_color=$0F0F0F,spc=-4,font_width=17.6,interlaced=true)
subtitle ("It’s too late for that, Solo.", \
421,513,28771,28854, \
"TradeGothic LT Bold",53,text_color=$000000,halo_color=$0F0F0F,spc=-2,font_width=17.6,interlaced=true)
subtitle ("You may have been a good smuggler...", \
308,513,28863,28970, \
"TradeGothic LT Bold",53,text_color=$000000,halo_color=$0F0F0F,spc=-2,font_width=17.6,interlaced=true)
subtitle ("...but now you’re Bantha fodder.", \
369,513,28979,29056, \
"TradeGothic LT Bold",53,text_color=$000000,halo_color=$0F0F0F,spc=-2,font_width=17.6,interlaced=true)
subtitle ("Take him away.", \
508,513,29222,29271, \
"TradeGothic LT Bold",53,text_color=$000000,halo_color=$0F0F0F,spc=-2,font_width=17.6,interlaced=true)
subtitle ("Bring her to me.", \
503,513,29455,29501, \
"TradeGothic LT Bold",53,text_color=$000000,halo_color=$0F0F0F,spc=-2,font_width=17.6,interlaced=true)
subtitle ("I’m sure.", \
566,513,29749,29794, \
"TradeGothic LT Bold",53,text_color=$000000,halo_color=$0F0F0F,spc=-2,font_width=17.6,interlaced=true)
subtitle ("I told you not to admit him.", \
410,513,33466,33566, \
"TradeGothic LT Bold",53,text_color=$000000,halo_color=$0F0F0F,spc=-2,font_width=17.6,interlaced=true)
subtitle ("He must be allowed to speak.", \
387,513,33617,33684, \
"TradeGothic LT Bold",53,text_color=$000000,halo_color=$0F0F0F,spc=-2,font_width=17.6,interlaced=true)
subtitle ("You weak-minded fool!", \
445,513,33703,33772, \
"TradeGothic LT Bold",53,text_color=$000000,halo_color=$0F0F0F,spc=-2,font_width=17.6,interlaced=true)
subtitle ("He’s using an old Jedi mind trick.", \
356,513,33827,33925, \
"TradeGothic LT Bold",53,text_color=$000000,halo_color=$0F0F0F,spc=-2,font_width=17.6,interlaced=true)
subtitle ("Your mind powers will not work on me, boy.", \
264,513,34160,34278, \
"TradeGothic LT Bold",53,text_color=$000000,halo_color=$0F0F0F,spc=-2,font_width=17.6,interlaced=true)
subtitle ("There will be no bargain, young Jedi.", \
322,513,34689,34793, \
"TradeGothic LT Bold",53,text_color=$000000,halo_color=$0F0F0F,spc=-2,font_width=17.6,interlaced=true)
subtitle ("I shall enjoy watching you die.", \
378,513,34871,34944, \
"TradeGothic LT Bold",53,text_color=$000000,halo_color=$0F0F0F,spc=-2,font_width=17.6,interlaced=true)
subtitle ("Bring me Solo and the Wookiee.", \
363,515,39732,39814, \
"TradeGothic LT Bold",53,text_color=$000000,halo_color=$0F0F0F,spc=-2,font_width=17.6,interlaced=true)
subtitle ("They will all suffer for this outrage.", \
339,513,39823,39944, \
"TradeGothic LT Bold",53,text_color=$000000,halo_color=$0F0F0F,spc=-2,font_width=17.6,interlaced=true)
subtitle ("Soon you will learn to appreciate me.", \
319,513,43150,43302, \
"TradeGothic LT Bold",53,text_color=$000000,halo_color=$0F0F0F,spc=-2,font_width=17.6,interlaced=true)
subtitle ("Move him into position.", \
439,513,45220,45286, \
"TradeGothic LT Bold",53,text_color=$000000,halo_color=$0F0F0F,spc=-2,font_width=17.6,interlaced=true)
subtitle ("Put him in.", \
546,513,45872,45920, \
"TradeGothic LT Bold",53,text_color=$000000,halo_color=$0F0F0F,spc=-2,font_width=17.6,interlaced=true)

####### Main subtitles ########

subtitle ("There will be no bargain.", \
-1,567,14382,14474, \
"TradeGothic LT Bold",53,text_color=$DCDCDC,halo_color=$FF000000,spc=-2,font_width=17.6,interlaced=true)
subtitle ("I will not give up my favorite decoration.", \
-1,567,14539,14700, \
"TradeGothic LT Bold",53,text_color=$DCDCDC,halo_color=$FF000000,spc=-2,font_width=17.6,interlaced=true)
subtitle ("I like Captain Solo where he is.", \
-1,567,14778,14856, \
"TradeGothic LT Bold",53,text_color=$DCDCDC,halo_color=$FF000000,spc=-2,font_width=17.6,interlaced=true)
subtitle ("I have come for the bounty on this Wookiee.", \
-1,567,20523,20624, \
"TradeGothic LT Bold",53,text_color=$DCDCDC,halo_color=$FF000000,spc=-2,font_width=17.6,interlaced=true)
subtitle ("At last we have the mighty Chewbacca.", \
-1,567,20765,20892, \
"TradeGothic LT Bold",53,text_color=$DCDCDC,halo_color=$FF000000,spc=-2,font_width=17.6,interlaced=true)
subtitle ("I want fifty thousand. No less.", \
-1,567,21502,21551, \
"TradeGothic LT Bold",53,text_color=$DCDCDC,halo_color=$FF000000,spc=-2,font_width=17.6,interlaced=true)
subtitle ("This bounty hunter is my kind of scum, fearless and inventive.", \
-1,567,22551,22772, \
"TradeGothic LT Bold",53,text_color=$DCDCDC,halo_color=$FF000000,spc=-4,font_width=17.6,interlaced=true)
subtitle ("It’s too late for that, Solo.", \
-1,564,28771,28854, \
"TradeGothic LT Bold",53,text_color=$DCDCDC,halo_color=$FF000000,spc=-2,font_width=17.6,interlaced=true)
subtitle ("You may have been a good smuggler...", \
-1,564,28863,28970, \
"TradeGothic LT Bold",53,text_color=$DCDCDC,halo_color=$FF000000,spc=-2,font_width=17.6,interlaced=true)
subtitle ("...but now you’re Bantha fodder.", \
-1,564,28979,29056, \
"TradeGothic LT Bold",53,text_color=$DCDCDC,halo_color=$FF000000,spc=-2,font_width=17.6,interlaced=true)
subtitle ("Take him away.", \
-1,564,29222,29271, \
"TradeGothic LT Bold",53,text_color=$DCDCDC,halo_color=$FF000000,spc=-2,font_width=17.6,interlaced=true)
subtitle ("Bring her to me.", \
-1,564,29455,29501, \
"TradeGothic LT Bold",53,text_color=$DCDCDC,halo_color=$FF000000,spc=-2,font_width=17.6,interlaced=true)
subtitle ("I’m sure.", \
-1,564,29749,29794, \
"TradeGothic LT Bold",53,text_color=$DCDCDC,halo_color=$FF000000,spc=-2,font_width=17.6,interlaced=true)
subtitle ("I told you not to admit him.", \
-1,564,33466,33566, \
"TradeGothic LT Bold",53,text_color=$DCDCDC,halo_color=$FF000000,spc=-2,font_width=17.6,interlaced=true)
subtitle ("He must be allowed to speak.", \
-1,564,33617,33684, \
"TradeGothic LT Bold",53,text_color=$DCDCDC,halo_color=$FF000000,spc=-2,font_width=17.6,interlaced=true)
subtitle ("You weak-minded fool!", \
-1,564,33703,33772, \
"TradeGothic LT Bold",53,text_color=$DCDCDC,halo_color=$FF000000,spc=-2,font_width=17.6,interlaced=true)
subtitle ("He’s using an old Jedi mind trick.", \
-1,564,33827,33925, \
"TradeGothic LT Bold",53,text_color=$DCDCDC,halo_color=$FF000000,spc=-2,font_width=17.6,interlaced=true)
subtitle ("Your mind powers will not work on me, boy.", \
-1,564,34160,34278, \
"TradeGothic LT Bold",53,text_color=$DCDCDC,halo_color=$FF000000,spc=-2,font_width=17.6,interlaced=true)
subtitle ("There will be no bargain, young Jedi.", \
-1,564,34689,34793, \
"TradeGothic LT Bold",53,text_color=$DCDCDC,halo_color=$FF000000,spc=-2,font_width=17.6,interlaced=true)
subtitle ("I shall enjoy watching you die.", \
-1,564,34871,34944, \
"TradeGothic LT Bold",53,text_color=$DCDCDC,halo_color=$FF000000,spc=-2,font_width=17.6,interlaced=true)
subtitle ("Bring me Solo and the Wookiee.", \
-1,566,39732,39814, \
"TradeGothic LT Bold",53,text_color=$DCDCDC,halo_color=$FF000000,spc=-2,font_width=17.6,interlaced=true)
subtitle ("They will all suffer for this outrage.", \
-1,564,39823,39944, \
"TradeGothic LT Bold",53,text_color=$DCDCDC,halo_color=$FF000000,spc=-2,font_width=17.6,interlaced=true)
subtitle ("Soon you will learn to appreciate me.", \
-1,564,43150,43302, \
"TradeGothic LT Bold",53,text_color=$DCDCDC,halo_color=$FF000000,spc=-2,font_width=17.6,interlaced=true)
subtitle ("Move him into position.", \
-1,564,45220,45286, \
"TradeGothic LT Bold",53,text_color=$DCDCDC,halo_color=$FF000000,spc=-2,font_width=17.6,interlaced=true)
subtitle ("Put him in.", \
-1,564,45872,45920, \
"TradeGothic LT Bold",53,text_color=$DCDCDC,halo_color=$FF000000,spc=-2,font_width=17.6,interlaced=true)

Just keep in mind that these were custom made for dark_jedi's project with his image cropping values, so I don't know how helpful these really are to other similar projects, and they are not completely finished either, you'll have to fiddle a little bit with the drop shadow. I also didn't take as much time and effort like I did with my other scripts (located at the first page of this thread) I was simply bored as hell of working on these subs, so they aren't as close to the original subs in terms of spacing like the other scripts, otherwise they're completely fine.

Interesting topic guys. TradeGothic seems not as bold as the font should be. I'm going to have a look at this, but first let me give you an avisynth function that will make the drop shadow (you can't use -1 for horizontal sadly)....

Function DropSub(clip input, string caption, int posX, int posY, int fStart, int fEnd)
{input
#Currently set for anamorphic PAL...
f = "TradeGothic LT Bold"
f_siz = 44
f_wid = 10.5
f_lin = 25
f_spc = -2
f_col = $FFFFFF

subtitle (caption,posX+2,posY+2,fStart,fEnd,f,f_siz,$000000,$7F000000,7,f_spc,f_lin,f_wid)
subtitle (caption,posX+1,posY+1,fStart,fEnd,f,f_siz,$000000,$00000000,7,f_spc,f_lin,f_wid)
subtitle (caption,posX, posY, fStart,fEnd,f,f_siz,f_col,$FF000000, 7,f_spc,f_lin,f_wid)
#The following line can be used view the subtitle centred...
#subtitle (caption,-1,200,fStart,fEnd,f,f_siz,f_col,$FF000000,8,f_spc,25,f_wid)
return(last)
}

DropSub("Going somewhere, Solo?", 240,374,70663,70698)